My first rifle purchase - Grizzly Bear Defence in mind - SKS?

R

Repatriated Canuck

Canadian again at last!
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
1,451
Location
Yellowknife, NWT
Hi guys I need some advice on my first rifle buy. I take my test Monday which I am going to challenge. The words are big and it's a multiple choice test so should be sweet. I hope anything else comes back to me for the practical. I am back working at a mine so time is limited and the courses always seem to run while I am away.


First off I live in Yellowknife, Canada. We do not have a gun store up here so my options are internet that can get me the rifle fast. Within days really or buy privately from someone in the area.


I expect to pass my test and send off the papers Monday the 9th which allow me to legally buy a firearm. My road trip to the Yukon, Alaska and Northern BC starts on the 25th of August and I want a protection firearm in bear country. We will be wheeling and camping all over just myself and the missus. Even she wants a rifle and thought of that on her own for protection.


I have a line on an SKS that has been in storage since after manufacturing. It still has packing grease in it. I can get this rifle now and give it to a friend who can own a rifle until my papers come in to be able to take it home. I don't want to get in any trouble of course.


Here is the add.

SKS RIFLE +CRATE of AMMO $400 FIRM (Lower price) - Yellowknife Sports, bikes For Sale - YKTrader Yellowknife Northwest Territories



I know it would not be a great bear hunting rifle but perhaps as a last option it would be better than a stick. I would also like to go hunting for the first time, could I use this as my starter rifle? I've been invited by some friends I work with which I look forward to.





I'm open to other ideas, I'd also need ordering ideas to go outside of a private sale within Canada. Unless an American company can get one to me quickly.
 
Last edited:
SKS? You can't get close enough to any real game up there and those that would get that close, you want maximum load possible. I say nothing short of a .308, looking very strongly at a .30-06.
 
For self defence I would be already too close. Plus I am limited to what I can get my hands on locally.


I imagine I would want a semi automatic at least. What models should I be looking at in the calibres you suggest?


My rifle knowledge is really limited as well. Anything I have fired would not be a choice for bush defence. .22's and a C7 along with a small shot gun for skeet shooting are all I have experience with. The C7 and shotgun where also one day only events. No budget for reservists in the late 90's. :(
 
Last edited:
Self defence, nothing is cheaper than a 12 gauge. And for $400, you can get a very good 2nd hand pump. If your forearms are good, it's almost as fast as a semi-auto especially if you learn how to pump and reacquire your aim. You have to do that regardless of what action you use - reacquire your aim.

$400 price range, you're into the REMINGTON 740 series and the WINCHESTER 100 series. However, you have to have a good eye on just how good the rifle is.

Like everything else, there are good used rifles and bad used rifles. I rather go to a gun smith or a hunting store. At least there, you know the barrel is straight.
 
I would call LeBaron. They'll email you their catalog on request. They don't advertise their firearms on the internet but they're fast in getting you quality firearms at good prices ... well good prices for Canada.
 
I don't know enough about Canada's law to be of any help. However, a rifle that can be of any use against a large bear is too much for self-defense against pests of the 2-legged kind.

SKS is good for prey up to a small deer. The round is roughly in the same class as the old 30-30 Winchester. It will seriously annoy a grizzley. It is a fun gun to shoot and fairly cheap to operate.

Colonel has the right idea. A nice pump shotgun is cheap to buy, cheap to operate, and very versatile. Load buck shots for defense against crooks or a solid slug against larger animals. Not sure how a slug or sabot round works against a grizzley though.
 
well you can shoot in the air, scare him away, cuz if you shoot at him with sks (espesialy large alaskan brown bear) you'll only piss him off.

get a shotgun, slgus are way better against bear than sks. you can also use it for HD, with diffferent load.
 
Last edited:
I agree - a 7.62x39 is nothing to plan on shooting at a Grizzly. They might have a fancy sabot slug load in 3.5" magnum 12 gauge that would work on a big bear. Even a 30-06 is a little light for one of those monsters, you would need be able to hit it in just the right place. The best gun for the job would also be suitable for a rhino or cape buffalo. like a .458 Winchester - though it would be quite expensive I'm sure. I've read that guides like the 45-70 lever guns with special loads.
 
Cheapest option is the 12 gauge with slugs or sabot slugs.
Lever guns (.45-70 only with premium modern hot loads) or a .450 Marlin.
Bolt guns in .338 Winchester Magnum, .375 H&H, .375 Ruger or .458 Winchester Magnum. If using anything smaller one would have use solid bullets only.
The last time I checked one can get a semi-auto Browning BAR in .338 Winchester Magnum.

An SKS would be considered marginal for a Black Bear not to mention an angry Brown Bear.
 
Last edited:
I will second the 12 gauge pump for close range and affordability. In the extreme temp and weather you are going to experience my advice is to limit yourself to a bolt action if you chose a rifle. More things can go wrong with a semi auto and you are going to want rock solid reliability. The closer the bear gets the bigger caliber your going to want. .300 mag, .338 mag would be a minimum if brown bear is on the menu. You have to be careful about going too big/exotic because you cant be afraid of the recoil and you want good availability of ammo without having to pay an arm and a leg for it.

An SKS has only one redeeming quality. Once you empty the mag at a charging bear and not slow him down one iota, you can fall on the gun's bayonet and hope like hell you bleed out before the bear gets to you.
 
Okay, you're gonna make me say it: get a Barrett XM500 or a McMillan TAC-50. However, plan on spending some money; base models start out at $3,800 (plus, the ammo ain't cheap!).
 
Ditto the 12 gauge for the best all-around DEFENSE (and small meat) gun. Slugs for bear, buck for deer and evil men, shot for birds and small game.

But if I could have only ONE rifle, it'd undoubtedly be an AR-15. You can shoot everything from .22LR to .458 SOCOM by swapping just the upper. There is even a .50 BMG upper. But IIRC, an upper would be considered a separate firearm in Canada, whereas in the USA it is a mail-ordered accessory.
 
Rule of thumb when shooting grizzlies/browns/polars. Don't stop shooting until the bear stops moving.

I found it extremely funny that while a novice can be forgiven for his lack of knowledge that we all jump on the band wagon that an assault rifle against a brown is a very very bad bad bad idea.

This being all said, the .30-30 has been known to take down browns and it was a deliberate hunt. Back in the Great Depression, that was about all that was available and that little calibre did it all. Mind you the range was less than 100 yards, placement to the dot, and balls of steel.
 
Stitch said:
Okay, you're gonna make me say it: get a Barrett XM500 or a McMillan TAC-50. However, plan on spending some money; base models start out at $3,800 (plus, the ammo ain't cheap!).
Click to expand...

If you go that rout why not a 20 mm lahti? I can guarantee you that won't look like too big of a gun when an 800 pound man eater charges. The rifle would be a bear to carry around though.
 
I'm not going to flat out disagree with everyone here and say that I wouldn't appreciate a little more gun if facing a moose or a grizzly, but a 7.62 x 39 round will seriously mess up a bear. You aren't going to get many one shot instant kills but 3 or 4 rounds center mass will stagger it (and would long term kill it) and let you get a head shot which will put it down. People go blackbear hunting with pistols in .22LR, (though its not real common). As long as it can reliably penetrate the animals hide (and an sks can do that) it can serve as a defense rifle.... Would a shoulder cannon be preferable sure but he is on a budget and will be carrying the run in addition to other gear so its not a horrid choice.
 
shotgun yes

shotgun yes

an SKS might be the bear minimum, When I visited AK, I carried a .357 with soft point, partial jacket, but I was not going to be out and about that much, and it was all I had on short notice. My druthers would have been a benelli auto with magnum 3" slugs, 5" or smaller groups at 100 yards, sitting. I figure that if you have to shoot a grizz you empty the gun, they are bad ass! :Dancing-Banana: And you can shoot birds with shot shells, snakes, pushy denali sheep, zombie sea otters, you could even shoot an Elk if he tries to get your Elkyhol. I vote 12 ga of some sort, very versitile.
 
Last edited:
Maxor said:
I'm not going to flat out disagree with everyone here and say that I wouldn't appreciate a little more gun if facing a moose or a grizzly, but a 7.62 x 39 round will seriously mess up a bear. You aren't going to get many one shot instant kills but 3 or 4 rounds center mass will stagger it (and would long term kill it) and let you get a head shot which will put it down. People go blackbear hunting with pistols in .22LR, (though its not real common). As long as it can reliably penetrate the animals hide (and an sks can do that) it can serve as a defense rifle.... Would a shoulder cannon be preferable sure but he is on a budget and will be carrying the run in addition to other gear so its not a horrid choice.
Click to expand...
Well, the problem is will you run out of ammo before the bear runs out of steam?

From What type of shotgun would be best for protection from grizzly bears? - Yahoo! Answers

I am a long time Alaskan hunter, brown bear hunter, and professional Alaskan bear photographer. I lived on Kodiak Island for many years and have lots of experience with these guys.

If you can find a copy - look for a video called 'Take a Closer Look'. It is a neat brown bear video identification guide that will teach you how to recognize brown bears. This is handy since a three year old has really big ears, and, a trophy 10 footer will have tiny ears compaired to the size of the head. Knowing the difference means you can scare away the young one - won't work with the older one. Video is worth it's weight in gold for understand bear body language.

12 ga with sabot slugs will put down a brown bear just as good as any rifle at close range - however - do not count on your first shot sending it to heaven. You need to break bones and hit vital organs to stop them - they are built very strong and powerful and can recover from a lethal shot for several minutes. One swipe and your life is ruined. Rule of thumb when bear hunting or protecting yourself from a bear is to keep shooting until it stops moving.

You cannot bring your retractable shotgun to Canada - these are classifed as assault weapons. Only certain shotguns are allowed. When you cross the boarder be sure t have a nice pretty vent rib barrel used for skeet or bird hunting. When it is time to hike - put on the smaller yet still legal barrel.

Your first two or three round coming out of the 12ga should all be sabots. After that OO Buck. Reason being if a bear is charging you, or, you have to shoot it off a buddy - with a sabot you have a good chance of being somewhat accurate. And after your 3rd sabot is expended you will be in 'panic fire mode' and the OO Buck should get you more hits.

Don't cheap out and just buy a box of each and hope for the best. You won't do anyone any good unless you practice with the sabot and OO Buck. Standard shotgun qualification course for the military is 40 rounds............ so at least do this.

What ever you do - do not tell 'em at the border you have the shotgun for bear protection. Right now they don't let anyone in with Bear Spray for fear someone might accidentally spray another person in the woods thinking they might be a bear. Gimme a break!

The Canadian government has a web site set up just for folks visiting with firearms. Be sure to read up on the latest and greatest. I do know for sure you cannot have a shotgun with a pistol grip, colapsing stock, or a heat shield.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
 
I think after my exam that I passed today I will go and see if I can get a 12G pumpy. He pointed out that in a defence situation you don't need the range and having the extra range can hurt someone else with the bullet going a long way or the bear being in the group of people.

Now to see about finding one.

Which one should I go after that will not break the bank or the fiances patience?


I can go after the rifle I actually want at a later date. I really want an M1 Garrand so the shotgun will do for now.



Now that we have that figured out lets hear Garrand and shotgun advice.


I read someone here said sabot rounds?


Also can I cross the Alaskan border with a shotgun?
 
Last edited:
I would get some cheap ammo to get familiar with the gun, cycling the action, getting off a magazine full in hurry and hitting the target, getting good at it - a couple boxes minimum (50 rds, 75 better) - then waste about 5 of the special solid sabot rounds to get familiar with those (the recoil and ballistics will be different - harsher). I'd want at least 5 of the solids with the gun when it was being used in the woods, plus a full box (25 rds) of the other loads (a mixture of regular slugs, buckshot and bb) for lesser threats. You would want to feel confident of hitting things a few times in a row at 25 meters.
 
Doktor said:
Shotgun for Grizzlies? Hmm...
Click to expand...

Shotgun firing slugs for grizzlies.

The good thing about shotgun is the versatility. It can take anything from bird shots to buck shots to solid slugs to sabot slugs, and I've even seen one that mimics a flamethrower. Another type of popular defense ammo is discs. A bunch of metal discs, 12ga in diameter, stacked on top of one another, loaded in a single shot shell. They probably scatter like hell and are wildly inaccurate. Think of it as modern day blunderbuss.

As far as brand and model goes, I heard many good thing about Remington 870. The model has been around for decades and there are spare parts galore. I personally have a Winchester 1300 Defender as my mandatory pump. It works. But it just doesn't seem to have as many after market parts as the 870.

The 3 most popular pump guns on the American market are Remington 870, Winchester 1300, and Mossberg 500. I've shot a Mossberg. I wasn't too impressed. It felt heavier than the other 2 models. Remington is the smoothest. Straight up, I would trade my Winchester 1300 for a Remington 870.

Another possibility is Benelli Nova. I have never tried one so I can't comment. But it's something to consider.
 
Last edited:
Gunnut,

I like the idea of having one rifle and a bag of different ammo for different targets, but having a grizzly in range of a shotgun is not a situation I'd like to be for the reasons you already wrote (accuracy, scattering...):cool:
 
Doktor said:
Gunnut,

I like the idea of having one rifle and a bag of different ammo for different targets, but having a grizzly in range of a shotgun is not a situation I'd like to be for the reasons you already wrote (accuracy, scattering...):cool:
Click to expand...

You won't have problems with a single slug scattering. You will have scattering with a sabot round, but that's just because the sabot is discarded on purpose.

Trust me, I'd rather have a 12ga pump with slugs or sabots than an SKS or AR when I need to take down a big bear. I'm not even sure if I would pick my Garand over a 12ga slug when a bear is involved.
 
For reference:
I just bought my first shotgun. I bought a cheap Stevens 320 12G for $199. Yep, $199 new. I signed up for a shotgun clinic and had some fun.
A few points, you can get a quality weapon for a cheap price. I received a lot of positive comments from people who spent several hundred dollars more on their weapons.
I was a top scorer during the shoots we did.
Every semi-auto shotgun jammed.
Learning the capabilities and limitations of your weapon is paramount.
I have not made any mods to my shotgun yet, I did the clinic with only a shotgun shell holder on it.

For close to mid range, I think the shotgun has been underestimated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top