ICE Killings in Minneapolis

omon said:
I have seen how you erase posters' every post because he did not follow your line, does x'th sniper name ring a bell?
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Which Sniper are you referring to? M21Sniper AKA Bill? He specifically asked (demanded, actually) that all of his posts (his "contributions") be erased when he left this place in a huff. Not unlike a petulant child taking all their toys with them and going home.
 
omon said:
He absolutely did grab the person they were trying to take into custody, that is your "force " argument, watch videos. As far as misinformation, LMAO, look in the mirror, you think I'm intimidated by your "you wont post here" lol, I'm not, i could not care less, btw this is actually a definition of cult, use intimidation to comply. I have seen how you erase posters' every post because he did not follow your line, does x'th sniper name ring a bell? Maybe your friend here should think twice before calling anyone a cult. now go ahead ban me, prove me right,
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Helping a woman to her feet is not force against a federal agent.
 
I don't mean to re-post this video per say, but was curious if anyone else noticed a nervous, even fearful look in Todd Blanche's eyes during his interview with Kristin Welker on Meet the Press? Like he fully realizes the truth of what those agents did to Alex Pretti, and while his words say one thing, his eyes are betraying him? That on top of his slip-up basically admitting that the Noem/Bovino narrative was false and misleading.

 
Breaking news, Bovino is being yanked from Minneapolis and sidelined, and Tom Homan is being sent in to oversee ICE/CBP operations in the city. Apparently this happened 20 minutes after a Fox News host or panelist suggested it. There is also talk that there will be a reduction of ICE/CBP numbers in the city.
 
tbm3fan said:
I see that Donald Jr. is now here asking us to not believe what 7 videos now show to anyone that has half a brain connected to their retinas. At least some of us do.
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When even most of Fox News and many right-wing organizations doubt and question this was a reasonable use of force, anyone still claiming the homicide of Alex Pretti was justifiable has to be an extreme, fringe radical.

Trey Gowdy on the subject on Fox:

“I think what frustrates people you remember Kyle Rittenhouse and how he was made a hero on the right. I’m sure there are people on the conservative side who are saying ‘wait a minute, you mean you can’t take a firearm to a protest? Because you were just celebrating a guy for doing it a couple of years ago.”

“Alex Pretti’s firearm was lawfully being carried. It is lawful to carry a gun in Minnesota. He never brandished it. He didn’t point it at the cops.”

“We certainly should not be labeling him as being a domestic terrorist who was going to execute cops.” “There is no evidence to support that.”
 
omon said:
He absolutely did grab the person they were trying to take into custody, that is your "force " argument, watch videos. As far as misinformation, LMAO, look in the mirror, you think I'm intimidated by your "you wont post here" lol, I'm not, i could not care less, btw this is actually a definition of cult, use intimidation to comply. I have seen how you erase posters' every post because he did not follow your line, does x'th sniper name ring a bell? Maybe your friend here should think twice before calling anyone a cult. now go ahead ban me, prove me right,
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Which gave the ICE officers the right at best to arrest him and then charge him with the appropriate crime. At best! It's what happened after the decision to 'arrest' him was made that makes those incompetent idiots guilty of involuntary manslaughter if not murder.

One of more of those men shot a prone, individual in the back multiple times while he was being held on the ground by other officers with his hands empty and his arms restrained by those same officers. AFTER HE HAD BEEN DISARMED!

I have never seen a more vagrant breach of a professional duty of care and negligent use of force in my life. If any State or local Police Officer in the United States was filmed doing what those ass clowns did? They'd have been suspended and or charged within days. Are you seriously going to sit here and say you'd be happy for your local cops to handle arrests that way. That you'd have no problem with them treating a member of your familiy the way they treated the victim in this incident?
 
Monash said:
One of more of those men shot a prone, individual in the back multiple times while he was being held on the ground by other officers with his hands empty and his arms restrained by those same officers. AFTER HE HAD BEEN DISARMED!
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I think it likely he was unconscious as well, with the pistol whipping to the head. Even if they had not shot him, he may have died anyways, or been left permanently disabled with severe brain damage.

They assaulted, pepper sprayed, and pistol-whipped him before they even knew he had a lawfully holstered, unbrandished pistol.

And yes, after he had already been blinded, restrained, and possibly pistol-whipped into unconsciousness, they discovered a lawfully holstered, unbrandished pistol and shot him to death after removing it from his person. And it seems quite clear from the video - the agent who fired the first shot into Alex Pretti clearly saw the other agent remove it.
 
tbm3fan said:
With them on a hiring binge I don't see how well trained all these new agents would be.

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They are trained to the standard and in the way Trump & his people want them trained. This is about intimidation. Why waste months on stuff like de-escalation & crowd control when the purpose of the force is to intimidate?

Apparently DHS/ICE has been telling these agents & their superiors that they can do things the people writing the memos know are illegal/unconstitutional. They have been handing these instructions to people and then taking them away again so the number of copies circulating is an absolute minimum.

What they consider 'well trained' would be unrecognizable to anyone, let alone people who have actually been properly trained for jobs like this.
 
This isn't about training. This is about leadership. Your country and mine have fantastically trained men - the Australian SAS and the Canadian Airborne Regiment. Both were let down by leadership. Afghanistan in your case. Somalia in mine. Someone somewhere said, go fuck them up and the fuck ups went and did it.
 
Officer of Engineers said:
This isn't about training. This is about leadership. Your country and mine have fantastically trained men - the Australian SAS and the Canadian Airborne Regiment. Both were let down by leadership. Afghanistan in your case. Somalia in mine. Someone somewhere said, go fuck them up and the fuck ups went and did it.
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Sir,

In this case I think it is both. They are engaged in mass recruiting; training these recruits poorly - they halved training times last year; telling then they can do things that are illegal; giving them masks & telling them they will be immune from consequences for their actions and then deliberately putting them into situations where they will encounter situations they aren't properly trained to deal with.

No argument that there is a leadership issue, but these guys aren't well trained soldiers. Even with proper training some of these issues would be still arising due to the the point you make, but better training would help.

I firmly believe that the people directing this were happy to provoke conflict in the hope it would benefit them politically. It doesn't appear to be working out that way.
 
If I were a long time ICE Agent? At first I'd probably have been chuffed by the announcement of additional funding and recruitment. Now?

I'd probably be looking at moving to another agency if it was at all humanly possible. Failing that? If retirement was an option I'd either do that or apply for a posting, any posting as far away from this cluster fuck of an operation as I could possibly get. I'd also probably literally cringe at the thought of having to step out in public in uniform even if I was posted far away from this mess.

I really feel sorry for all the old pros and their commanders who are having their reputations tarnished by events the vast majority of them would want nothing to do with.
 
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Monash said:
If I were a long time ICE Agent? At first I'd probably have been chuffed by the announcement of additional funding and recruitment. Now?
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Speaking of funding I am expecting a partial shutdown, this coming Friday, as the spending bill includes money for DHS. The Senate needs 60 votes, which they won't get this time, unless there is some hard bargaining with Republicans breaking ranks.
 
Monash said:
If I were a long time ICE Agent? At first I'd probably have been chuffed by the announcement of additional funding and recruitment. Now?

I'd probably be looking at moving to another agency if it was at all humanly possible. Failing that? If retirement was an option I'd either do that or apply for a posting, any posting as far away from this cluster fuck of an operation as I could possibly get. I'd also probably literally be cringe at the thought of having to step out in public in uniform even if I was posted far away from this mess.

I really feel sorry for all the old pros and their commanders who are having their reputations tarnished by events the vast majority of them would want nothing to do with.
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Many of these people signing up for ICE and CBP are like those impoverished Russians who sign the contract to go fight in Ukraine. People with few other prospects, attracted by promises of quick money and bonuses, being offered more money than they've ever seen or will ever see in their lives, from areas and regions of the country with low levels of education and high levels of support for Donald Trump.

Bigfella said:
Apparently DHS/ICE has been telling these agents & their superiors that they can do things the people writing the memos know are illegal/unconstitutional. They have been handing these instructions to people and then taking them away again so the number of copies circulating is an absolute minimum.
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Like those poor, uneducated Russians getting sent into the Ukrainian meat grinder. Except in this case they will become cannon fodder for the justice systems of the states they are being sent to, and eventually the federal justice system, if somehow we manage to escape becoming some kind of dictatorship in this country.
 
Don't know the veracity of this story... but looks like Bovino is getting thrown under the bus, then backed over a couple times. Reports also claim he is being demoted from is position as "Commander-at-Large" and sent back to El Centro (California, Imperial Valley), where he is expected to retire soon.

www.themirror.com

DHS suspends Bovino’s social media access over unverified Alex Pretti claims

Following the death of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti in Minnesota on Saturday after being shot by a federal agent, Bovino took to social media to baselessly claim that the victim was an agitator
www.themirror.com www.themirror.com

DHS suspends Bovino's access to social media after posts defending his unverified claims about Alex Pretti​

The Department of Homeland Security has reportedly suspended Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino's access to his social media accounts after he responded to several users criticizing him over his unverified claims that Alex Pretti was preparing to kill federal agents.

Reports of his social media suspension came moments after it was revealed that Bovino, who has overseen the controversial immigration enforcement operation in Minneapolis that left two U.S. citizens dead, would be replaced in the Twin Cities by Border czar Tom Homan on Tuesday.

DHS spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin said in a statement on social media that Bovino despite being sidelined from social media, is not being relieved of his duties.
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Great video of a Somali-American Uber driver at the MSP Airport trolling ICE/CBP, just after Renee Good was shot on Jan 7. They mention his accent, well you know what, most of these ICE/CBP have Southern accents.

I hear Somali accents almost every day, while a Southern accent is quite unusual up here. Greg Bovino and his motley crew of neo-Confederates are all present in this video. They're the ones that should have identifying information, and not be masking up and harassing US citizens.

 
Ironduke said:
I think it likely he was unconscious as well, with the pistol whipping to the head. Even if they had not shot him, he may have died anyways, or been left permanently disabled with severe brain damage.

They assaulted, pepper sprayed, and pistol-whipped him before they even knew he had a lawfully holstered, unbrandished pistol.

And yes, after he had already been blinded, restrained, and possibly pistol-whipped into unconsciousness, they discovered a lawfully holstered, unbrandished pistol and shot him to death after removing it from his person. And it seems quite clear from the video - the agent who fired the first shot into Alex Pretti clearly saw the other agent remove it.
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I suppose that a few months ago, before joining ICE, these guys would have argued that carrying a firearm is a constitutional right for every citizen. But now, a citizen carrying a gun is a terrorist.
 
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