My post was a work in progress when you quoted it, I put in the precise math they're probably using to come up with that number. I imagine whomever made that post on the DHS twitter looked at the same population figures I just did (Wikipedia).
ICE Killings in Minneapolis
- Thread starter Ironduke
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ICE arresting and detaining two young men at the Target in Richfield, just off Highways 77 and 62, 2 to 3 blocks south of the Minneapolis city line, and across the freeway from the airport.
Both young men claimed to be US citizens with American passports in their pockets. Clearly they have American accents.
Just going off the color of the red parka on the first young man, the red vest on the second, underneath high-vis safety vests, I'm going to guess they are mobile pickup workers for Target who bring people's purchases out to their cars at mobile pickup parking spots.
I've probably stopped here 10-15 times to grab a few things over the years when it's on my way back home from work sites.
Both young men claimed to be US citizens with American passports in their pockets. Clearly they have American accents.
Just going off the color of the red parka on the first young man, the red vest on the second, underneath high-vis safety vests, I'm going to guess they are mobile pickup workers for Target who bring people's purchases out to their cars at mobile pickup parking spots.
I've probably stopped here 10-15 times to grab a few things over the years when it's on my way back home from work sites.
That argument is borderline at best. There are a couple of problems with a prosecution on that basis? Firstly the woman (victim) was apparently engaging with another officer i.e. looking at and speaking with them at the time of the incident. If that was true? It could be argued in a court of law she simply wasn't aware of the officer who glanced off the car as she reversed since he was apparently at her 180 (PLUS) at the time she initiated the maneuver. Worst case scenario she didn't look or at least look properly before reversing.
This doesn't absolve her of any potential criminality BTW but it does reduce it the level of culpability significantly i.e from intent to recklessness or a similar (lessor) degree of criminal culpability.
Secondly? The problem for the officer concerned is that his response to the 'threat' has (at law) to be in proportion to the perceived risk of death or serious injury to himself or others. His immediate problem? Despite what he might argue in court it doesn't appear after reviewing the video evidence that he was ever at immediate risk of further harm after the glancing impact with the vehicle nor were any other member of his team. (Not withstanding any injury he may have already suffered from that blow when it started moving).
According to my training? He should have assessed the ongoing threat and checked on the status/location of his team members before firing. Total elapsed time to do that? Maybe a second or so.
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A local Minneapolis lawyer who is YouTube famous, Bruce Rivers, weighs in on recent events. I discovered his channel a few months ago, always found him entertaining to watch. Anyways, he's pretty much spot on, on everything he has to say on these recent matters.
Aussiegunner
Active member
I wouldn't be sad to see him done for manslaughter, given her illegal and dangerous actions I don't believe murder can be justified though.
Kevin throwe
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Does this entire thing remind everyone of the Fugitive Slave Act. The agents in those days acted poorly .and without due process.
Look, were her actions 'dangerous'? Probably, albeit to the lower end of the scale i.e she was reckless when she reversed. Could she have been panicking? Possibly. There's certainly no evidence presented as yet that her actions were deliberate or that she intended to hurt anyone. There's also been no evidence presented that she had a criminal record or was involved in anti-ICE/BLM etc protests in any way. So for the moment we have to assume she was a clean skin, until proven otherwise.
That leaves us with an officer an officer who fired without accessing the tactical situation first. Which as I noted would have taken him a second or two, So yes I think he has a case to answer. The problem? ICE agents present at the time tampered with with crime scene by at the least moving the vehicles after the shooting and the FBI has been ordered not to co-operate with local authorities. In that situation? I don't see much if any chance of him ever being charged, let alone convicted.
And that's just, well sad. For her family, her friends and loved ones, her community and of course justice.
Doesn't really matter if she was involved or not in the protests or activism. That's a 1A right. At worst, her sideview mirror clipped his phone while she was driving away. And that ICE agent straight up executed her.
These agents sought out confrontation because their egos couldn't handle some woman blocking half of a two-lane one-way street. They had a clear way around her vehicle. They didn't have to stop. They could have drove by in the clear left lane and radioed MPD there's some car blocking one of the two travel lanes.
I've driven this street and one-ways like it in Minneapolis all the time. People stop in these streets to do Uber pick-ups and drop offs, UPS and Amazon deliveries, they slow down to make a turn. You know what I do?
I turn on my fucking blinker and pass them in the other lane.
Somehow I've managed to do this in all the 14 years I've lived in this city without shooting someone's fucking face off. If I can manage to make it 14 years without shooting someone in the face, I don't know what the problem is for these occupiers Trump is sending in from out of state. Did they lower recruit standards so much they're taking people with room temperature IQs? Did they not cover how to use your turn signal and pass in the other lane in the 30 hours of training they receive?
Turn on your blinker. Fucking pass. If they really want to be Karens, radio MPD about a stopped vehicle.
This was not an immigration issue. There's no legitimate reason for those ICE agents to have even stopped. But clearly, from the remarks of this administration and the actions of many of these ICE agents, these operations are not about immigration enforcement. The immigration enforcement is a pretext. These operations are about terrorizing local communities the president doesn't like.
I only mentioned the criminal history/protest issue because it negates claims already issuing from the White House. That and it negates any other practical reason for stopping her. After all a routine plate check & or drivers license check would have confirmed she was a US citizen - via a check with Immigration.
They don't have the right to demand her driver's license to check for immigration status, there is no reasonable suspicion or probable cause to do such a detainment and check. They don't have the right to do that to anybody, regardless of what they look like, you cannot just demand someone show you their papers in this country without some form of reasonable suspicion or probable cause. Doing so is a violation of a person's constitutional rights under color of law.
As federal agents, they have zero jurisdiction over local traffic enforcement. They cannot ask her for her ID for that either. The only police authorities with the right to ask her to produce her ID for a traffic infraction are sworn police officers from the State of Minnesota. Portland Ave is a city street and it is also part of Hennepin County Road 35, the two agencies with jurisdiction are the Minneapolis Police Department and Hennepin County Sheriff, that being said, any sworn Minnesota officer who happens to be around can also exercise traffic enforcement and enforce state laws, regardless of what local agency they belong to.
If ICE had a problem with what she was doing, radio one of these two agencies in to handle it. Better yet, they could just turn on their blinker, pass her, and go about their day, doing whatever it was they were on their way to do. Judging from their actions that day, and many other actions they've undertaken, it certainly wasn't immigration enforcement.
No, but they could have done so indirectly via local law enforcement. If they thought there was a legitimate reason they needed to stop her for safety reasons (real or imagined) or whatever. There are protocols and IT systems in place that allow Federal Agencies to run plates etc through State or Local law enforcement data bases to confirm IDs and or other information. Which itself raises an interesting question? Was this done in this case or did they just stop her 'because'?
They didn't stop her, she was parked halfway on the street. They stopped and got out of their cars, instead of just passing her, because their fragile egos just couldn't handle a woman blocking half a two-lane one-way street. Their immediate impulse was to confront and escalate, and eventually kill her.
Prior to killing her, they made statements that signaled they were going to attempt to detain her, but the legal basis for their doing so is very dubious. Like those two young men in the Richfield Target, any attempts to detain her would likely have been an illegal constitutional rights violation under color of law.
She had no criminal record or traffic violations in Minnesota. I can't see records from Colorado.
Prior to killing her, they made statements that signaled they were going to attempt to detain her, but the legal basis for their doing so is very dubious. Like those two young men in the Richfield Target, any attempts to detain her would likely have been an illegal constitutional rights violation under color of law.
She had no criminal record or traffic violations in Minnesota. I can't see records from Colorado.
So as I said they have to justify why they did what they did. Well in theory at least they do. Given the fact the FBI isn't co-operating with local Police? It's an open question if they will ever at some point actually be required to do so. At least in public.
Aussiegunner
Active member
It would be him in the dock though, not her, so whether in his shoes her behavior could reasonably or at least honestly but not reasonably be seen as a threat to his or other lives, is what is relevant. All he has to do is to demonstrate reasonable doubt that he had malicious intent, to defeat a murder charge.
Based on the video, I think he could do that. Manslaughter would be far more likely to stick and if he is charged, that is what I think the charge is likely to be.
You're not wrong. While I personally think this guy just wanted to kill people, that is the charge that would be most likely able to stick, possibly along with civil rights violations.
Any case brought would be tried by a state prosecutor, in a federal courtroom before a federal judge.
Kevin throwe
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It is not the incident that needs focus but the trend, violence by these federal agents is increasing, this is a trend test is not good. As I see this is too much like the Fugitive Slave Act . And the round up of Japanese people. We talk of our differences to excuse the violence we use. I thank God there were no people in front of the car when her dead body caused it to sped into the other car and pole . If there had been a person in that path who would we blame ? Ms. Good?
The current 'trend' reflects direction (and pressure) from above within ICE itself which in turn reflects the intent and policies of the current Trump Administration. While I agree it's not good this is an outcome of American voters choices at the ballot box last election. In a little under three years they'll have the chance to change things. If they choose to.
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Kevin throwe
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Thank God we have the opportunity to end this bad regime in 11 months.
The 1/3 of America that put Trump in did not want this.
The drop in GDP because of these policies is big.
As after COVID we will be hearing the reports of farms not planting in spring due to no workers.
All the taxes that used to be paid by these good people will add to the fastest increasing debt.
Police for decades have been able to get bad actors using due process.
Here's a video of ICE at Roosevelt High School in Minneapolis, arresting teachers, and even firing a tear gas grenade after a 14 or 15-year old threw a snowball. This incident took place on Jan 7th just hours after the killing of Renee Good, about 3 miles away. I don't know why felt they had the need to be at Roosevelt High School. Minneapolis canceled classes Jan 8-9 and offered remote classes to any students through Feb 12.