China-Tibet Threads

[anil]

Only hinterland India's history has been "uneventful". Ask anyone living in the periphery states, from the North West to the North East; it's been anything but uneventful.

Yes the punjabi insurgency left behind very colourful events. I wonder if it has indeed ended.

The north-east looks like a mini-afghanistan to me with various ethnic groups prying for dominance. There are three entities here - the military, the dominant insurgent group and the splinter insurgent groups. The insurgents are lumped in ethnic portions. All three fight against each other and this makes the place very volatile and sensitive.

Our policy in these parts has been to talk to the dominant insurgent groups and let them run their territory their own way in lieu of ceasefire. This gives the military some space to neutralize the splinter groups. Progress has been made for eg: the nagaland govt is actually a front org of nscn(im), a dominant insurgent group who has joined politics which is a good start. The manipur govt was chosen over the insurgent groups even though it is a corrupt one. I'd say that it has been "eventful" but in the right direction.

What am I looking at?

The most unlikely candidates to experiment with for the creation of nation states

 

[Tronic]

That was bad on GoI's part.


That was very bad on GoI's part, no doubt about it.


That worked, isn't it ?

That was great move by GoI. I will always like to see a government 'imposed' this way when hostility is high and boycott of the Union is prevalent. Those who were boycotting are sitting in LA and enjoying the power today. Back to normal.

Yes, the government corrected it's mistake by opening up the political space in Punjab again, but it's always important to take notice that those mistakes came at a very big cost; including erosion of the GoI's legitimacy in that state.

The intent of my original post was to check anil's assertion that, "china is several decades behind when it comes to "nation building", as he asserted that China's history with secessionists has seen more turbulence than India ("eventful" vs "uneventful"). India's political history too has been very volatile. Heck, India almost became a full dictatorship in the mid '70s.

One advantage I will hand to India over China is that it is a democracy, albeit with authoritarian tendencies, but still a democracy which gives space for dissenting voices to be heard. This allows an alternate channel for a lot of simmering tensions to be released.

 

[Tronic]

Our policy in these parts has been to talk to the dominant insurgent groups and let them run their territory their own way in lieu of ceasefire. This gives the military some space to neutralize the splinter groups.

Which territories have been willingly ceded to insurgent groups?

Progress has been made for eg: the nagaland govt is actually a front org of nscn(im), a dominant insurgent group who has joined politics which is a good start. The manipur govt was chosen over the insurgent groups even though it is a corrupt one. I'd say that it has been "eventful" but in the right direction.

Insurgents are also political actors with political goals. Dropping the bullet to contest the ballot to achieve their political ends is always a positive development. Good for the Indian government to finally give them the space, and good for the dissenting parties to show trust in the GoI.

 

[anil]

Which territories have been willingly ceded to insurgent groups?

Those areas with too many players. Back in the day there were few players but they weren't competent so talks were stalled. Today they have splintered into many so comprehensive talks are not possible. The nscn(im) is to delhi what the pashtuns are to pakistan. This article will help explain the situation:

Chasing a chimeric peace - The Hindu

Insurgents are also political actors with political goals. Dropping the bullet to contest the ballot to achieve their political ends is always a positive development. Good for the Indian government to finally give them the space, and good for the dissenting parties to show trust in the GoI.

They have joined politics but they have still not dropped their guns. The problem is external as well as internal(ethnic). That's why it'll take generations to solve.

 

[Guest]

Eurasian Economic Union Backs China

Eurasian Economic Union Backs China

It's a well-known fact that Donald Trump and his loyalists even at the pre-election campaign stage didn't hide the desire to start a large-scale scandal with China related to a disproportion of external trade and an artificial decline in the Yuan provided by Beijing. Frankly speaking, the overwhelming majority of spectators considered Trump's policy to be a populist pre-election rhetoric reckoned on dull rednecks who often fall for populist xenophobic appeals. If a usual external political struggle grows into a full-scale trade war the losses of the United States will be enormous. The strike will be delivered to the traditional spheres of American export to China – high-tech industry (civil aircraft, smartphones, etc.) and agricultural sector (half of American soybeans falls on Chinese market). Also the price increase in American retail first of all will damage Trump's voters – the groups of disadvantaged Americans.

However, the life laughed again at all the wise theorists' calculations. Not only was it impossible to predict Donald Trump's activity on the basis of the common sense (it's enough to recall the missile attack of American cowboys against a Syrian water station, also the North Korean psycho juggling nuclear bombs poured oil into the fire. Due to the military games of fat and spoiled boy Kim, Beijing found itself in an awkward position. Uncle Donald exerts pressure on Uncle Xi exposing an ultimatum – China either imposes oil embargo to strangle North Korean economy, or gets involved into a trade war with the United States and observes a real war next door. It seems like Chinese "uncle" ups the ante. It's not that Chinese leader has tender feelings for the Pyongyangian overgrown child who plays with nuclear edge-tools, but every Chinese "mandarin" has a fear determined by the national mindset – the fear of losing public face. That's why it's virtually impossible to evade the conflict.

Who will win in a trade war? According to the quantity of the pro-Chinese articles, Beijing doesn't grudge the money to create an expression of its inevitable win in the infosphere. That propaganda uses, inter alia, the arguments put in the beginning of this article. However, the reality isn't as good as Chinese comrades wanted it to be. Apple and Boeing will lose a great trading area, but won't crash. American disadvantaged people will become more depleted. The middle-class will also suffer. However, people who are accustomed not to hang upon guiding party's lips but used to rely on themselves, people whose ancestors survived during the Great Depression will not consider a temporary drop in income as a catastrophe. The same can't be said for the Chinese people who have been getting over a paternalistic model of government since the childhood and who have grown fat for the last 10-15 years. The loss of such a richest market as the USA will lead to a real disaster for the economy of the Middle Kingdom. The fact is that the main thing for the global economy is not the industry, but the outlet area. American industrial facilities' mobilization to the overpopulated Southeast Asia region with lots of countries where people are desperating for money will be accepted with enthusiasm. Except for Asia, there's Mexico just steps from the US border with its great spare workforce capacity. It will be extremely difficult for China to search out broad markets for its products, especially if Washington threatens sanctions against global business related with the import from China.

And thus, the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) goes out of the shadows to the forestage which member countries form a united market with a size of 180 million people. This storage facility of course won't replace totally the loss of the US market but it's capable to play a role of a safety cushion for Chinese economy. It's possible that namely the feeling of Eurasian togetherness gives Beijing a possibility to act from the position of strength even being under the sword of Damocles, which is economic war against America.

 

[snapper]

Hmm DOR?

 

[Oracle]

China cracks down on CPC officials in Tibet having religious beliefs, secret links to Dalai Lama

First all these islamic terrorists in Xinjiang, now these buddhist terrorists in Tibet. This is not a land of the Tibetans, this is ancestral Han land. How dare they?

Time for more concentration camps to be set-up and the terrorist Tibetans thrown into them for vocational training.

Erik Prince should be whipped.

 

[tbm3fan]

China cracks down on CPC officials in Tibet having religious beliefs, secret links to Dalai Lama

First all these islamic terrorists in Xinjiang, now these buddhist terrorists in Tibet. This is not a land of the Tibetans, this is ancestral Han land. How dare they?

Time for more concentration camps to be set-up and the terrorist Tibetans thrown into them for vocational training.

Erik Prince should be whipped.

Chinese version of genocide. Instead of death just wipe out their culture via brainwashing.

 

[Double Edge]

This should given the Tibetan movement a new lease of life

This is serious for the CCP now

However It does not mean as Palki suggests that the US is doing way with the one china policy though.

 

[Double Edge]

If the world wanted to better understand what the CCP was about then what they did in Tibet was the blueprint.

They then proceeded to replicate that model with the rest of their people and now its about making the world compliant with the CCP's designs.

That's it.

 

[Double Edge]

One Tibetan called Tensing Tsundue decides to march on foot to Delhi from Dharamshala. 550 km walk. He reaches Delhi on Mar 10.

He wants to raise awareness about the Tibetan cause in India.

He wants to challenge India's one China policy.

This guy is Gandhi and Bhagat Singh rolled into one on a Dandi march :smile:

His first opponent will be the Indian govt (!)

They have not stopped him from doing the march so so far so good.

There are restrictions on political activities that Tibetans can do in India. Can't protest outside the Chinese embassy in India for example which otherwise is perfectly fine in the west.

Tensing is right that awareness about Tibet is low in India.

Only recently did i discover at a Thank you India event held in 2018 in my city that my state offered the second most generous land grant in the country to Tibetan exiles.

The Tibetan colony is near Mysore called Bylakuppe.

By the first chief minister of my state, back in the 50s (!)

Part of the reason i was not aware is i concluded long ago that Tibet was a lost cause.

Not to Tibetans. Their belief and faith in the cause knows no limits.

 

[Double Edge]

Tenzin's daily log

https://www.tenzintsundue.com/works/walk/

What kind of response have you received from the people?

A large number of people are happy that someone is doing something to empower India in responding to China. I am getting a great response from people during this march. I am carrying a Tibetan as well an Indian national flag. People don’t usually expect or have rarely seen a Tibetan man carry both flags on his back. They are pleasantly shocked and want to know more. They immediately love the idea of a Tibetan face, hoisting Indian national flag, carrying it on my shoulder and distributing this paper.

People give me chai and ask me to sit down and talk to them. Their sense of nationalism comes over. They say ‘hum to rozi roti mai baithe hain, aap desh ke liye kaam kar rahe hain (We are consumed in earning bread, you are working for the nation).’


What are you going to do once you reach Delhi?

I am seeking an appointment with the Prime Minister of India. I am not sure if it is possible but I am hopeful. I am also running an online signature campaign which petitions the government of India to change the ‘One China’ policy, asking people to sign in huge numbers.

Once I get to Delhi, I will deliver these signatures to the PM or his office. We will also have a concluding conference about India-China-Tibet relationship in Delhi


Do you have any expectations from the Centre?

I am petitioning the Government of India to change the One China policy and to take it up seriously. This is the way China can be given a befitting reply. People around the world as well as within are looking at the kind of response India has given.


You think your march will signify any change or make a difference?

Marches like these, whether it is Mahatma Gandhi’s Dandi March or Martin Luther’s march for civil liberties, I think this is the way to walk as a political exhibition and to highlight the issue and maintain momentum for a long period of time which can help galvanise enough support, awareness and change of opinion. Therefore, if this march does not change India’s policy, it will at least make India think again.


What do you think India’s recourse towards the current situation with China should be?

India has always acted as a subordinate to China. China has always been taking the initiative in dealing with the Himalayas. We have always been defensive as China decides when do they want to attack, when do they want to cause border incursions, when do they want a war. We have been defensive, protecting our image saying ‘kuch nahi hua hai’. But if we continue with this, we will be in a position of weakness and always be dictated upon. Tibet is a unique opportunity to dislodge China politically and diplomatically now.

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/in-tibets-independence-resides-indias-security-7205512/

 

[Double Edge]

Historical failure to defend Tibet as an independent nation has left India with a failed conscience | NH | Dec 27 2020

India has been overcautious in dealing with the Tibet issue. The Dalai Lama is not allowed to make political statements. But following the stand-off in eastern Ladakh, the gloves must come off. India must consider allowing political activity among Tibetan refugees and by the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamshala. The historical failure to defend Tibet as an independent nation has left India with a failed conscience.

Ignoring of the Tibet issue by the world powers and regional powers will embolden Beijing to expand its repression in Xinjiang and Hong Kong, threaten Taiwan and incentivize its expansionist designs in Ladakh, Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh.

Article is dated Dec 27, wonder if this march signals a change of attitude.

Knowing GOI they won't say a damn thing so we will have to be attentive to any changes from the norm.

 

[Double Edge]

Good discussion on China's White paper on Tibet

China choosing a Dalai Lama won't work in Tibet. It will only fulfill political goals in the mainland.

They already pulled this stunt with the Panchen Lama in the 90s and the result is people in Tibet don't keep a photo of him. Don't revere him.

These Tibetans are adamant about choosing their own leaders :wink:

 

[Double Edge]

The Great Escape (pdf)

A comic book of the Dalai Lamas escape into exile.

On the eve of China’s takeover of Lhasa in 1959, the entire world was caught by surprise when His Holiness the Dalai Lama eluded the Chinese People’s Liberation Army and escaped undetected. As recorded in the autobiography of His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche and signed eyewitness affidavits, The Great Escape tells the true story of the Dalai Lama’s epic flight into exile in India and how the protector Dorje Shugden was behind every pivotal step to bring His Holiness safely out of Tibet for the future of the Tibetan people, culture and religion.

https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/the-greatest-escape-in-history.html

 

[Double Edge]

Another on China's white paper on TIbet

 

[Double Edge]

What does playing the Tibet card for India entail ?

Here is one articulation

1. Speak Up. No more silence. Recognise the cause of Tibetan autonomy.

2. Reject China's claim of sovereignty over Tibet

3. Internationalise the issue of Tibetan freedom

4. Highlight the grave human rights situation in Tibet

5. Claim the Dalai Lama's legacy, back reincarnation in India

If China throws out agreements going back to 1993, India can throw out some more as well.

Late Sushma's taunt to the Chinese foreign minister in 2015 still holds.

One India for one China

 

[Double Edge]

"The Nerve, How Did They Even Think Of This?" Tibetans React To Ccp Projection Onto Potala Palace | Free Tibet | Jun 30 2021

Footage has emerged from occupied Tibet of a giant projection onto the former home of the exiled Dalai Lama by the Chinese Communist Party, celebrating the 100th anniversary of the CCP’s establishment ahead of celebrations on 1 July.

The video, taken by an unknown and clearly distressed woman, and sent outside the country at huge risk to her safety, shows words in Chinese which translate as “Celebrate the CCP's 100th founding anniversary” projected onto the Potala Palace, the Dalai Lama’s winter home until he was forced to flee Tibet from Chinese forces in 1959.

 

[Double Edge]

India does not allow Tibetans or any one else for that matter to demonstrate in front of the Chinese embassy.

But McLeodganj is another matter

Latest dare by the Dala Lama

 

[Double Edge]

The referenced statue was in Sichuan province

Tibetan monks beaten, arrested for sharing Buddha statue destruction news | RFA | Jan 07 2022

Sophie Richardson, China director for New York-based Human Rights Watch, added that China’s demolition of the statue and crackdown on Tibetans sharing news of its destruction show that “religious believers cannot rely on legal or constitutional safeguards of their faith.”

China in its current phase of “ultranationalist and statist ideology gives all power to the state, and regards civil society with suspicion and contempt,” Richardson said.

China destroys second revered Tibetan statue in Sichuan | RFA | Jan 10 2022

Authorities said the statue's housing lacked a fire escape, but Tibetans see a crackdown on their religion.

The three-story statue and the structure housing it were both torn down around the same time as the 99-foot Buddha, which authorities said was too tall, a Tibetan living in exile told RFA, citing contacts in Drago.

“Chinese authorities have again given unbelievable reasons for the destruction, saying there was no fire escape in the temple housing the three-story high statue of Maitreya Buddha, but these aren’t valid excuses,” the source said, speaking on condition of anonymity to protect his sources in Drago.

“The Chinese government is just continuing to Sinicize Tibet’s religion by not allowing Tibetans the freedom to practice their own religion and faith,” the source said.

This is an ongoing process


China razes 1,000-year-old Buddhist temple | India Today | Sept 21 2020

In the latest act of religious oppression, China has demolished a 1,000-year-old Buddhist temple in its Shanxi province.

This one in 2020 was in Shanxi