Camp Bastion attacked

Agnostic Muslim said:
Extremists, whether they are liberals or conservatives, are extremists - the problem with many in the West and India is that they view liberal extremists and sellouts in countries like Pakistan as 'pragmatic' because these people promote a POV that is music to the ears of the West and Indians.

The 'Chalabis of the world', as nice as their snake oil sales pitch of 'invade and be welcomed by XYZ constituency' sounds to Western ears, are just that, snake oil sales men, and yet, even after the fiascos of Afghanistan and Iraq, people like Zraver continue to cling to fantasies of the US 'exploiting internal Pakistani fissures' and 'installing a successful pro-American transitional government'.
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AM,

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Pakistan as I see it.

The core philosophy that prevails in Pakistan is what is causing the problems; the core philosophy being Religion dictating and permeating every policy or action of Pakistan.

In a Muslim world that would be ideal, but then in the global context, where one has to interact with countries not Islamic, that is where the conflicts arise.

Take any international equation of Pakistan, be it the West, India or even China.

Everywhere the fundamentalists of Pakistan is in conflict and the Govt cannot do anything that encourages an even handed dialogue to solve issues, because behind every effort of the Pakistan Govt, the fundamentalists are calling the tune!

Even China, which I believe has a relation with China which is 'higher than the mountains and deeper than the seas' to use one of the favourite quotes that is oft seen, is peeved with the fundamentalists influence in Xinjaing.

Therefore, unless Pakistan can shake off the fundamentalist grip over Pakistan's existence in the comity of Nations, I see no hope.

I would like to add, that because of the unfortunate state that is currently symbolising Pakistan, there are many people in Pakistan, who are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, as I think Tronic mentioned, who are becoming pragmatic and hence 'liberal'.

What could be a 'Conservative' in Pakistan?

A person sold wholly to Religion and sees the situation with religious blinkers on?

I may have not understood Pakistan, but maybe you could help me along the way.
 
Camp Bastion is said to house 28,000 personnel.

I would be surprised it the security for the Camp would have been not well coordinated.

I am sure there would have been some ambushes and protective patrols out since this is a major base.

Therefore, it sure is interesting how the raid party sneaked through and did the devastation.

Lt Col Christopher Raible, commanding officer of the VMA-211 squadron is said to have been killed!

I wonder if rag tag terrorists who could mount this ops, since this raid has been too professionally executed, if one goes by the account.

I wouldn't be surprised if some professional soldiers, who are conversant with Spec Ops, were involved in the ops too!
 
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Ray said:
Camp Bastion is said to house 28,000 personnel.

I would be surprised it the security for the Camp would have been not well coordinated.

I am sure there would have been some ambushes and protective patrols out since this is a major base.

Therefore, it sure is interesting how the raid party sneaked through and did the devastation.
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The answer is in the OP ;)

Mihais said:
...Dressed in U.S. Army uniforms...
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Welcome back.
 
Not sure if I can agree with the decision because the generals were too far high up to control the circumstances on the ground. If it is a command failure, then General Amos should also censure himself and force himself into early retirement. Another case of throwing somebody under the bus so heads can be served on a platter.
 
Gen Amos " added that Gen Gurganus bore "final accountability" for the lives and equipment under his command" ... I thought the President bore that responsibility. It reminds me of the time my Troop Commander was fined £300 because his gunner had traversed on a HESH round in the turret of his tank. The tank was in Berlin the Troop Commander was in England. 'Final accountability' ;)
 
dave lukins said:
Gen Amos " added that Gen Gurganus bore "final accountability" for the lives and equipment under his command" ... I thought the President bore that responsibility. It reminds me of the time my Troop Commander was fined £300 because his gunner had traversed on a HESH round in the turret of his tank. The tank was in Berlin the Troop Commander was in England. 'Final accountability' ;)
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That's a stupid rule. If you are not there and somebody had a brain fart, you are somehow responsible for it? Sure I understand about responsibility but no one is omniprescient or omnipotent. You can't control everything. You have to trust your troops and followers to do what is right. If you can't do that, the whole system just stops working.
 
Blademaster said:
That's a stupid rule. If you are not there and somebody had a brain fart, you are somehow responsible for it? Sure I understand about responsibility but no one is omniprescient or omnipotent. You can't control everything. You have to trust your troops and followers to do what is right. If you can't do that, the whole system just stops working.
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We had a new Commanding Officer and I think he wanted to stamp his authority. He once had the whole of the Regiment line up in box formation on a winter exercise in Germany where he flew in by helicopter to tell us to 'enjoy ourselves' as he was flying to Bavaria to do a spot of skiing for a week or so. Great for moral...not. :)
 
Seems to be international. Our brigade commander had the battalion commander place his entire semimobile HQ (incl. all the signal units, guard etc) at full readiness on the parade grounds, then flew in by CH-53 and landed next to it - and left again after about enough time for a little chat and a cup of coffee in the warm HQ cabins. Then the whole shebang was dismantled again and placed back into storage. And that didn't just happen once.
Actually makes me wonder whether the callsign "Nazgul" for CH-53s in Germany really is completely coincidental...
 
Blademaster said:
That's a stupid rule. If you are not there and somebody had a brain fart, you are somehow responsible for it? Sure I understand about responsibility but no one is omniprescient or omnipotent. You can't control everything. You have to trust your troops and followers to do what is right. If you can't do that, the whole system just stops working.
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There's always more to the story. I'm getting the impression that the troop lead was letting things slide once too often and the Sqn OC finally had to teach the lead a lesson.
 
He had been sent to the UK on a Troop Leaders Course so maybe he hadn't done so well or had not taken it serious to the satisfaction of the CO.
 
dave lukins said:
We had a new Commanding Officer and I think he wanted to stamp his authority. He once had the whole of the Regiment line up in box formation on a winter exercise in Germany where he flew in by helicopter to tell us to 'enjoy ourselves' as he was flying to Bavaria to do a spot of skiing for a week or so. Great for moral...not. :)
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That cnut , ohhhhhhhhh yes , give out extra blankets ,,the wanker ,.
 
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