Battleship North Carolina BB-55

[Battleship IOWA]

I would raise hell about it. And I'm far from a ACLU liberal. No problem with inmates picking up trash, cutting grass along the Public (state) owned right of ways.

But when you want to use inmate labor to aid a private entity then I have problems.

if you cannot drum up enough support in the community, then maybe it needs to go away. Inmates aren't in prison to work on private pet projects

I don't think that the Government (State or Local) nor the US Navy should pay a dime for any of these privately ran museum ships. Groups got together and told the Navy that they would take the ship, and maintain it vice it being scrapped. If they cannot do it. If the public doesn't support the endeavor, then its time to close shop

One thing to consider is that Duke Energy is a public utility and the right of ways are used to run power and gas lines. Maintaining these easements by trimming trees and other jobs helps keep energy flowing to customers like you and me.

 

[Gun Grape]

One thing to consider is that Duke Energy is a public utility and the right of ways are used to run power and gas lines. Maintaining these easements by trimming trees and other jobs helps keep energy flowing to customers like you and me.

Public Utility but private, for profit, corporation. Those easements and right of ways are private property. Thats why they hire people to maintain them. And that's why its inappropriate for inmates to do that job.

The museum ships are all privately owned and operated. At no time would it be appropriate for inmates to be forced to work on them.

To add to what SlaterDoc said. If Navy Vets want to see these ships preserved, They need to step up and volunteer. I lived around Wilmington for half a lifetime. There is no shortage of vets in the area.

 

[Battleship IOWA]

Public Utility but private, for profit, corporation. Those easements and right of ways are private property. Thats why they hire people to maintain them. And that's why its inappropriate for inmates to do that job.

The museum ships are all privately owned and operated. At no time would it be appropriate for inmates to be forced to work on them.

To add to what SlaterDoc said. If Navy Vets want to see these ships preserved, They need to step up and volunteer. I lived around Wilmington for half a lifetime. There is no shortage of vets in the area.

The United States does not force prisoners to work. And I agree with you no one should be forced to work. For the Iowa I would only ask for volunteers.

To your other point, I agree with you and SlaterDoc, I too would love to see more vets participate.
And with that in mind the Iowa is holding a "Veterans Appreciation Festival" on November 8th & 9th. If you are vet please come join us. I am including sponsorship info for anyone interested.

I am very proud of the fact that the Iowa has close to 3000 registered volunteers between Richmond and San Pedro and they have contributed almost 200,000 hours of labor since 2012.

Our volunteer force is the heart and soul of the operations, and without them we would not be the museum we are today. I am proud to include myself in their ranks, because even a board member is still just another volunteer.

 

[bbvet]

Gun Grape wrote:

The museum ships are all privately owned and operated. At no time would it be appropriate for inmates to be forced to work on them.

To add to what SlaterDoc said. If Navy Vets want to see these ships preserved, They need to step up and volunteer. I lived around Wilmington for half a lifetime. There is no shortage of vets in the area.

I dispute the first statement - museum ships are NOT privately owned - they are U.S. gov't property as they always have been; they are simply on loan to the private organization that won the bid to operate them as museums. Evidence USS OLYMPIA - unless maintained properly by the private group, the U.S.N. will take her and dispose of her. Same goes for all the others.

Re. the Wilmington, NC area having a sizable veteran population is probably a true statement. What's more important is that Wilmington is more interested in promoting the waterfront bars and taverns to the 3$$ bill crowd than the proper preservation of NORTH CAROLINA and making a true Military Park out of the area where the ship resides. The USS ALABAMA group has done a wonderful job of making her berth and adjacent land into a real military showplace. When I lived in Wilmington (76-87) I thought (and still do) that our state was wasting a really valuable asset in drawing tourists and promoting state and naval history - nothing's changed from what I can see.

I also agree that there needs to be a big push to "enlist" the support of former navy vets and also other vets to step up and volunteer - I know the 3 stateside IOWA museums have these programs in place; whether NC does or not, I can't say - I don't see much evidence that there is - but, hey - I could be wrong (I hope I am!!).

 

[surfgun]

Just a thought, incarcerated trustees are not forced to work. They volunteer, to get out prison for the day. The idea of trustees volunteering to work on a battle wagon as form of service would not be a matter of force. Who would want an individual that is being forced to do anything? If that were the case one would have to worry about arson. Then one would have a real mess!

 

[ChrisV71]

If memory serves in 1998 the uss Massachusetts was towed
From fall river to bostin for cleaning & welfare check
If the libs in mass can do it what is stopping NORTH
CAROLINA???

A low bridge that was built after the North Carolina was placed in Wilmington. The Showboat won't fit under it without having the upperworks cut down first.

 

[85 gt kid]

A low bridge that was built after the North Carolina was placed in Wilmington. The Showboat won't fit under it without having the upperworks cut down first.

A couple 16" rounds will fix that :biggrin:. Seriously though where can she go for major work though?

 

[surfgun]

Besides Norfolk, I believe the largest drydock at Charleston, SC, could have accepted the Showboat.

 

[Gun Grape]

I dispute the first statement - museum ships are NOT privately owned - they are U.S. gov't property as they always have been; they are simply on loan to the private organization that won the bid to operate them as museums. Evidence USS OLYMPIA - unless maintained properly by the private group, the U.S.N. will take her and dispose of her. Same goes for all the others.

http://www.hnsa.org/handbook/navsea2012.pdf


Slide 6 disagrees.

Variations exist in the terms and conditions of ship museum donation
contracts since 1948. However, the common thread in all ship
museum donation contracts are:
– Title and ownership of the vessel transfers to the Donee.
– Vessel must be maintained in a condition satisfactory to the Navy; i.e.,
maintained & preserved for the purpose it was donated for.
– The government shall not bear any cost resulting from the donation.
– Donee must obtain Navy’s consent for ship disposal or subsequent
transfer of the vessel.
• Warships are Munitions List Items requiring demilitarization of the hull by
scrapping at the end of its useful life as a museum artifact.
• Navy’s consent is required to ensure that demilitarization by scrapping is
complied with, or that the vessel is transferred to another organization for the
same purpose it was originally donated for.
• The financial liability for ship disposal or subsequent transfer of the vessel
belongs with the owner, i.e., the Donee.

Slide 17

If an organization has no viable plan for underwater hull preservation,
a ship disposal plan should be developed.
w Options for Ship Disposal:
– Domestic ship dismantling and recycling.
– Environmental preparation and sinking as an artificial reef.
Returning the vessel to the Navy is NOT an option.
w Prior to undertaking a plan for ship disposal, the Donee should:
– Consult with its State Historic Preservation Officer if the vessel is listed on,
or eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places.
– Obtain Navy’s consent to dispose or transfer the vessel.

 

[bbvet]

Gun Grape - I stand corrected.

The HNSA statement agrees completely with NAVSEA's actual online web statement as to transfer of title & ownership. I guess that dispells any further notions of any of the battleships making a return to service - hence, the thread on Bring back the IOWAs is totally ficticious.

I wouldn't have thought this true, but from a purely practical and economic standpoint, once the ship is removed from the NVR and put up for donation or scrap, it's useful life as a weapons system has been deemed officially over.

The further statements from NAVSEA also indicate that the ship must be maintained according to specific regulations agreed to by the donee - I think that is what I took to mean ultimate ownership was retained by the government.

 

[85 gt kid]

Actually per Rusty the Iowa and Wisconsin still have to be kept in good enough shape to where they can be used in an emergency. Still a pipe dream but it's there.

 

[ChrisV71]

A couple 16" rounds will fix that :biggrin:. Seriously though where can she go for major work though?

Here is your obstruction. The Cape Fear Memorial Bridge, built in 1967. They never expected the Showboat to need to go back to sea ever again.

View attachment 38253

At an extreme low tide, and the bridge in the up position. The North Carolina would need to have the mast, radar and about 10 feet of the forward tower removed to get under it.

Their best bet is to convert her slip into a drydock/dry berth, like they plan to do with the Texas. They can leave her free floating but able to be put on the blocks if needed. Texas will be dry berthed at some point.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/state-p...-dry-berth-project/reports_and_correspondence

 

[85 gt kid]

Hence the 16" rounds . Sounds like that'd be expensive though. They could probably build a permanent dry dock instead.

 

[surfgun]

It looks like some large craines could lift the center section of bridge clear up out of its tracks to temporarily remove it.

 

[85 gt kid]

Tracks? I didn't know they could be taken apart like that.

 

[Stitch]

Tracks? I didn't know they could be taken apart like that.

Me, neither; I just assumed it was all welded together. I know the turrets are "loose" since they have to be able to rotate (which is why the Bismark dumped her turrets when she capsized), but that's about it; I figured everything else was permanently secured to the hull.

 

[DonBelt]

The Cape Fear Bridge center section is on tracks. Not the North Carolina's. But you knew that.

 

[85 gt kid]

The Cape Fear Bridge center section is on tracks. Not the North Carolina's. But you knew that.

Totally........I was just testing you guys :slap:

 

[Gun Grape]

Gun Grape - I stand corrected.

The HNSA statement agrees completely with NAVSEA's actual online web statement as to transfer of title & ownership. I guess that dispells any further notions of any of the battleships making a return to service - hence, the thread on Bring back the IOWAs is totally ficticious.

I wouldn't have thought this true, but from a purely practical and economic standpoint, once the ship is removed from the NVR and put up for donation or scrap, it's useful life as a weapons system has been deemed officially over.

The further statements from NAVSEA also indicate that the ship must be maintained according to specific regulations agreed to by the donee - I think that is what I took to mean ultimate ownership was retained by the government.

Its a common misconception. Easy to believe when the Navy can come and salvage parts from the ship and can tell you what parts of the ship can/cannot be used.

Actually per Rusty the Iowa and Wisconsin still have to be kept in good enough shape to where they can be used in an emergency. Still a pipe dream but it's there.

No longer true with the Iowa and Wisconsin. Congress dropped the "in reserve/emergency call up" requirement almost 10 years ago.

 

[Gun Grape]

Here is your obstruction. The Cape Fear Memorial Bridge, built in 1967. They never expected the Showboat to need to go back to sea ever again.

Hence the 16" rounds .

I'm thinking of moving back to Gods Country in a few years.

Don't screw up my commute!!!!!