A new Indo-Pak War

China has a powerful Military Industrial Complex (in Asia, Africa and also in the Middle-East), just like America has almost everywhere. Marketing and sales. And propaganda sells more warplanes, and tanks, and artillery, and missiles and what not. Did the US accept that an Indian Mig-21 Bison shot down an F-16 during a dog-fight after the Balakot Strikes? No, right?

If the Chinese trolls us, that's understandable. India is trying to corner its marketshare with Brahmos and artillery systems and missiles. What fails to impress me is why are Americans trolling us, including President Trump.
I would be careful using the general term "Americans" when it is Trump giving you issues. Lump me in would be a mistake as I am an American and might take more offense. Frankly both India and Pakistan need to get over themselves. I see two countries being played against each other for the benefit of the one country who wants supremacy over all of Asia and South-East Asia. I see highly educated patients that are both Pakistani and Indian. It is a shame that the two of you couldn't work together creating an entity greater than the sum of the two parts. Instead nothing but buts...

Second, Ward's site has dealt with air warfare since it's inception. He was an F-14 RIO and deals with air warfare facts no matter the side. Sure everyone knows the Chinese video was propaganda, Ward says so, but that doesn't change the facts on how it all went down and how aerial warfare has changed from his days. Your little example of a dogfight is nothing new here. What Ward was showing is newer tactics going into the future.
 
I would be careful using the general term "Americans" when it is Trump giving you issues. Lump me in would be a mistake as I am an American and might take more offense. Frankly both India and Pakistan need to get over themselves. I see two countries being played against each other for the benefit of the one country who wants supremacy over all of Asia and South-East Asia. I see highly educated patients that are both Pakistani and Indian. It is a shame that the two of you couldn't work together creating an entity greater than the sum of the two parts. Instead nothing but buts...

Second, Ward's site has dealt with air warfare since it's inception. He was an F-14 RIO and deals with air warfare facts no matter the side. Sure everyone knows the Chinese video was propaganda, Ward says so, but that doesn't change the facts on how it all went down and how aerial warfare has changed from his days. Your little example of a dogfight is nothing new here. What Ward was showing is newer tactics going into the future.
If you don't like being quoted, try to be more sensible on your posts. And do not hyphenate India and Pakistan together. This isn't the first time, we have had an argument. Clearly your lack of knowledge about India and sub-continental issues, shows. Come, visit India once, be my guest. I promise you, you'd leave much richer.

Trump is an American, and so are you. Trump giving us trade issues doesn't bother me, maybe 0.50-1.0% loss to our GDP. Unlike China, we are a consumption based economy. We'd weather it. Also, as an Indian, I take it as an offence from an American, who I'd rather think is knowledgeable enough to comment on Indo-Pak or Indo-China issues, beyond what is published in CNN, NYT and the likes.

Please don't preach us about Indo-Pak issues. We will deal with it as we deem fit. America armed Pakistan to the hilt, until Pakistan got nukes, the country where Osama was hunted down. Yes, you got one sentence half-correct in your entire post, China playing Pakistan against India up in the Himalayas.

India and Pakistan cannot work together because of the Pakistan Army, that US governments of the past and now have always supported. Never-mind, innocent Americans killed on 9/11 for no fault of theirs, but American administration likes to share their bed with Pakistani Army Generals.

I don't care who WARD is, I care for what's real. And you know what, I was busy with some important tasks that could not be ignored, when this thread cropped up, or I'd have shred to pieces the propaganda that you'll have come to believe in this latest Indo-Pak war.
 
Now I don't give a shit what happens in either country now that you irritated me and I was more an ally than not. Lots of excuses as always. If you all want to go to hell in a hand basket be my guest. Over and out for good.
 
I would be careful using the general term "Americans" when it is Trump giving you issues. Lump me in would be a mistake as I am an American and might take more offense.
Barring something occurring, when it comes to foreign policy "the Americans" will be Trump until January 20, 2029.
 
I don't care who WARD is, I care for what's real. And you know what, I was busy with some important tasks that could not be ignored, when this thread cropped up, or I'd have shred to pieces the propaganda that you'll have come to believe in this latest Indo-Pak war.
You have to learn how to read intel. I don't care whether you believe the Paks shot down six planes or not. Ward just described the Pakistani kill chain. I find the Air Marshall's description of the AOM to be fantasy island too but there is nothing wrong with how he described the Pakistanis executed their engagement.
 
You have to learn how to read intel. I don't care whether you believe the Paks shot down six planes or not. Ward just described the Pakistani kill chain. I find the Air Marshall's description of the AOM to be fantasy island too but there is nothing wrong with how he described the Pakistanis executed their engagement.
I'm not dead, yet. Will be back.
 
Now I don't give a shit what happens in either country now that you irritated me and I was more an ally than not. Lots of excuses as always. If you all want to go to hell in a hand basket be my guest. Over and out for good.
Did I personally insult you? I don't know what worked you up? Is it nationalism?
I concede, I was wrong in understanding your post, but you had to make a post to your enemy, yeah? So much for American foreign policy.
 
What's with Trump saying 7 aircraft were shot when the Paks were saying 6 were shot. Were these all Rafales?
 
So which number is right 6 or 7 and how many/what type of air frames did Pakistan lose? Only asking because I never actually followed this particular 'exchange of pleasantries' between India and Pakistan very closely at the time assuming as I did that it would settle down again - till next time.
 
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So basically 3 on the Indian side confirmed Rafale, Sukhoi and Mirage. Nothing known on the Pak side. If only India had acknowledged looses and focussed on the retaliation that destroyed Pak infrastructure, India might have clawed back some PR. Instead they focussed on the briefing by a couple of ladies and not really giving out any info. No one gives a shit about woke during war.
 
So basically 3 on the Indian side confirmed Rafale, Sukhoi and Mirage. Nothing known on the Pak side. If only India had acknowledged looses and focussed on the retaliation that destroyed Pak infrastructure, India might have clawed back some PR. Instead they focussed on the briefing by a couple of ladies and not really giving out any info. No one gives a shit about woke during war.
The problem is that this entire episode for both sides was about military posturing for domestic consumption not war in the conventional sense. The Indians were never going to focus on 'destroying Pakistani infrastructure' in any meaningful way any more than the Pakistanis were. Neither side wanted the conflict to escalate which limited them to posturing along the confrontation line. This time around? The Pakistani Air Force got the drop in the Indian Air Force, but it could just as easily have been the other way round as it has been in the past.

So what are the Indians going to do? Escalate? No, their going to learn lessons and see exactly where and what they did wrong so they don't make the same mistakes twice. Immediately after the clash and its aftermath? You can bet the lights were burning late into te night at the Indian Air Force HQ while they analyzed what happened from mission launch to return to base. Meanwhile the Pakistani's were undoubtedly doing the same thing and if as has been suggested they actually did come out on top this time round? Patting themselves on the back. Next time (and there will be a next time) it's just as likely to be the Indians who 'win' and the Pakistani's who 'lose" - and around and around it goes!
 
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I really don't get the massive DENIALS from both sides. It's not that hard! 1-2-3 planes take off from an airfield. 1-2-3 planes land on an airfield. Since both India and Pakistan have TREMENDOUS spy leakage through their mutual borders. It's NOT DAMNED HARD for both sides to observe each other airfields. Can't your spies count?!?!?!
 
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