2023 Israeli-Gazan War

Watching on Al Jazeera live and an Israeli missile strike hit the building directly behind the correspondent. Holy shit!

Quite brazen offensive by the Palestinians.
 
Yom Kippur 2.0

The Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies are gonna get reamed, gutted and boned after the dust settles. :confused:
 
What is Hamas hoping to achieve? Obviously they know that such a major attack will prompt an even harsher retaliation. They don't care about the lives of their own citizens, even if thousands are killed. There are some suggestions that this was done with the backing of Iran to derail the Saudi-Israel deal.
 
Yom Kippur 2.0

The Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies are gonna get reamed, gutted and boned after the dust settles. :confused:

Well deserved in my opinion. :Listened to reports on NPR that the Palestinians did everything by courier and cut outs...which hampered Israeli, and for that matter US, tech centric Intel Agencies.

Humint still matters. And if you have been looking on Twitter you realize the lessons of UKR have been learned...a lot of talk of Palestinian uses of drones/
 
What is Hamas hoping to achieve? Obviously they know that such a major attack will prompt an even harsher retaliation. They don't care about the lives of their own citizens, even if thousands are killed. There are some suggestions that this was done with the backing of Iran to derail the Saudi-Israel deal.

I think the Saudi-Israel normalization is central to these attacks.

A normalization there may be the first domino to fall which will a) sideline further normalization and b) and hinder Iran's goals in the area.
 
Hamas spokesperson said they had the backing of Iran and “other countries” helped them in support.

I like the Tet comparison. Pretty amazing they caught the Israelis with their pants down this badly.
 
What is Hamas hoping to achieve? Obviously they know that such a major attack will prompt an even harsher retaliation. They don't care about the lives of their own citizens, even if thousands are killed. There are some suggestions that this was done with the backing of Iran to derail the Saudi-Israel deal.

Trying to make Gaza untenable for the Israel, would be my guess.
 
JERUSALEM (AP) — Backed by a barrage of rockets, dozens of Hamas militants broke out of the blockaded Gaza Strip and into nearby Israeli towns, killing dozens and abducting others in an unprecedented surprise early morning attack during a major Jewish holiday Saturday. A stunned Israel launched airstrikes in Gaza, with its prime minister saying the country is now at war with Hamas and vowing to inflict an “unprecedented price.”

In an assault of startling breadth, Hamas gunmen rolled into as many as 22 locations outside the Gaza Strip, including towns and other communities as far as 15 miles (24 kilometers) from the Gaza border. In some places, they roamed for hours, gunning down civilians and soldiers as Israel’s military scrambled to muster a response. Gunbattles continued well after nightfall, and militants held hostages in standoffs in two towns and occupied a police station in a third.

Israeli media, citing rescue service officials, said at least 250 people were killed and 1,500 wounded, making it the deadliest attack in Israel in decades. At least 232 people in the Gaza Strip have been killed and at least 1,700 wounded in Israeli strikes, the Palestinian Health Ministry said. Hamas fighters took an unknown number of civilians and soldiers captive into Gaza, a deeply sensitive issue for Israel, in harrowing scenes posted on social media videos.

Hamas surprise attack out of Gaza stuns Israel and leaves hundreds dead in fighting, retaliation | AP News
 
Israel says it is 'at war' after Hamas surprise attack
  • Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel is "at war" after Gaza militants launched a surprise attack Saturday morning, firing thousands of rockets and entering Israel by land, sea and air using paragliders.
  • At least 200 people have died and hundreds of others are wounded in Israel, officials said. Fighting carried through the day, and a fresh round of rocket attacks hit Tel Aviv and other areas on Saturday evening.
  • In Gaza, at least 232 Palestinians have died and more than 1,600 are wounded, the Palestinian health ministry said. Israel launched air strikes on the territory while its forces clashed on the ground with Hamas fighters.
  • Hamas claims it has captured dozens of Israelis, including soldiers, and videos authenticated by CNN show some of the dramatic seizures. Israel's military has acknowledged hostages were taken.
Live updates: Israel-Gaza conflict erupts into fighting after attack by Palestinian militants (cnn.com)
 
Iran and Qatar backed militant group Hamas' attacks on Israel on Saturday. Meanwhile, Pakistan said that a 'two-state solution is key to Middle East peace'.

Iran and Qatar backed the attacks on Israel by Hamas militants on Saturday, saying that the strikes were "proof of the Palestinians' increased confidence in the face of Israel".

Former Pakistan Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif hinted at support for the Hamas group in the ongoing conflict, saying that he was "not surprised" at today's events.

Iran backs Hamas attack, Pak says '2-state solution key for Middle East peace' - India Today
 
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Trying to make Gaza untenable for the Israel, would be my guess.

I thought Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago.

Assuming there is a deeper plan here I would have thought the Israel-Saudi agreement, Iran trying to boost its support outside its Shia base & possibly some HAMAS attempt to destablize the PA in the West Bank might be involved.
 
Safe to say the potential Israel-Saudi normalization agreement is dead?
 
I thought Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago.

Assuming there is a deeper plan here I would have thought the Israel-Saudi agreement, Iran trying to boost its support outside its Shia base & possibly some HAMAS attempt to destablize the PA in the West Bank might be involved.

Honestly don't know one way or the other. It's also hypothesized that this was timed to destroy the normalization of relations with the Saudis.

What a f--king mess :frown:
 
This Will Be a Pyrrhic Victory for Hamas
Israel could go much further than it has in the past in responding to the group’s attacks.

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In the hours following Hamas’s large-scale surprise attack on Israel early this morning, Israelis on social media quickly dubbed the day a “second Yom Kippur”—referring to the surprise attack on Israel by Egypt and Syria in 1973—or an “Israeli 9/11.” Not since the 1947–49 Arab-Israeli War had Palestinian or Arab forces captured Israeli villages.

Hamas executed a stunning military surprise, breaching the Israeli border in multiple ways and attacking more than 20 Israeli population centers, as well as military bases. Militants kidnapped dozens of Israelis—apparently including children and the elderly—and captured military personnel. Israeli social media and news outlets filled with calls for help from families in southern Israeli towns occupied by Hamas, sheltering in their homes as armed terrorists went door-to-door. The failure of Israel’s intelligence and preparedness is second only to that in 1973.

But this Hamas victory might prove Pyrrhic. In fact, Hamas itself might have been surprised by the extent of its initial success. The trauma in Israel today should give pause to those thinking that Israel will simply acquiesce to a short tit for tat. As bad as things have been in Gaza in the past two decades—and they have been terrible—the coming weeks could prove even worse.

Israel will now likely go to great lengths to hunt down those involved. The Israel Defense Forces have already begun bombarding the Gaza Strip. Once they finish clearing Israeli towns of Hamas militants, they will turn their focus in earnest toward Gaza.

The government will feel immense pressure to send ground troops into the Gaza Strip, perhaps even to end the decade-and-a-half-long bloody and stifling stalemate with Hamas and topple the group militarily. Israel has refrained from doing so to date in part because it would be an extremely bloody affair. Israel has had no answer to the question of what might replace Hamas, and still doesn’t. Yet the Israeli public will demand decisive action, including ground operations, even if these again fall short of a complete takeover of the Strip.

Israeli sensitivity to POWs and MIAs is world-record-setting. The current Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, was himself released from an Israeli prison with more than 1,000 other Palestinian prisoners in exchange for one Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit. Sinwar now holds dozens of Israelis. The Israeli government faces a conundrum: Enter with force and risk many more Israeli casualties, both military and civilian. Refrain from it, and find yourself at the mercy of a terrorist organization on your border. Freeing all Hamas and Islamic jihad operatives from Israeli prisons, as these organizations demand, would be difficult for the Israeli government to agree to. Israel might eventually try to negotiate, or it might embark on risky rescue operations inside the Gaza Strip with the best-case outcome being only partial success.

Israel’s foes to the north shouldn’t overlook this moment either. In 2006, less than three weeks after Shalit was captured and taken prisoner in Gaza, Hezbollah launched an attack on Israel’s northern border, starting a bloody war that lasted more than 30 days and brought terrible damage to Lebanon. Israel’s northern neighbor, already suffering a devastating economic collapse, should hope that Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s leader, does not make the same mistake now. Because Israel is feeling cornered and under grave threat, its response might be harsher than Hezbollah imagines, especially in an already reeling Lebanon.

The United States has a difficult but vital role to play. Israel and Hezbollah have no direct contact. To help contain this deadly situation, Washington could make clear to Nasrallah the price he would pay for intervening. President Joe Biden has already publicly warned “against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation.”

Hezbollah and Hamas are not Egypt or Syria. Israel doesn’t face an existential threat from these groups, despite the horror Hamas inflicted today. In that sense, the current warfare is not remotely a repeat of 1973. Yet the psychological effect of these attacks, the public outrage already emerging at the authorities who failed to prevent it, the sense of military blunder—all of these factors are reminiscent of the trauma of that war, exactly 50 years and a day ago. And although not as audacious or sophisticated an attack as 9/11 was, the death toll, relative to Israel’s size, is comparable.

Today’s attack resembles these prior attacks in another way too: Israel is in a genuine state of war—not merely one more round of Israel-Hamas fighting. The psychological impact of these attacks creates political cover, and political demand, for Israel to go much further than it has in the past, to be willing to pay and to exact prices it has previously stopped short of.

These attacks are uniting Israelis—temporarily, of course—after years of growing division, allowing the government more room to maneuver aggressively if it so chooses. The massive demonstrations in the country in recent months have now been halted, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s attempt to overhaul Israel’s democratic institutions will likely have to wait. Reservists have shown up for duty by the thousands, including many who had refrained from volunteering in recent months in protest of the government’s radical agenda.

A popular theory holds that Israelis compromise only after being attacked, the prime example being 1973, when Israel reached a peace agreement with Egypt in return for giving up the whole Sinai Peninsula. In truth, because Israelis are often attacked, this argument is overdetermined: Any compromise can be retroactively explained by a prior attack.

The current situation might prove, not for the first time, something else entirely: If you convince Israelis that they are in a fight for their lives, for the lives of their families, they will fight. And Israel remains far stronger than its enemies, today’s debacle notwithstanding.
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I think the Saudi-Israel normalization is central to these attacks.

A normalization there may be the first domino to fall which will a) sideline further normalization and b) and hinder Iran's goals in the area.

It may not. This time at least its pretty clear that the Hamas was the one who pulled the trigger first and pulled it hard! There won't be any prevaricating over who started this particular round of violence. Oh the usual talking heads will try trying to justify or excuse Hamas's attack but only the most delusional speaker will try to claim that this time Israel initiated it. So as long as the Saudis issue public statements calling for an end to hostilities and the return of all hostages yarda, yarda, plus keep private LOC with Israel open I don't think either side will want to reverse course, if only because they know that's what Iran want's.
 
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