What Book Are You Reading?

[Albany Rifles]

Arrived today and this is a big heavy hard cover book, both of them.

Yeah...true tomes. Hope you can track down his latest...Fire & Steel. It completes the trilogy.

[tbm3fan]

Yeah...true tomes. Hope you can track down his latest...Fire & Steel. It completes the trilogy.

The trilogy was completed today with the arrival of Snow & Steel. I'll be busy all year with reading material.

[Albany Rifles]

The trilogy was completed today with the arrival of Snow & Steel. I'll be busy all year with reading material.

Really a great set of reads.

[tbm3fan]

Really a great set of reads.

You have finished all three yourself?

[Albany Rifles]

You have finished all three yourself?

Nope! I had some others I had to finish up first. I'm about 1/5th of the way through Snow & Steel.

[tbm3fan]

Nope! I had some others I had to finish up first. I'm about 1/5th of the way through Snow & Steel.

My take on the first four chapters, You are right in what I had learned through other books. One, that the Germans were top notch but they weren't. Compared to our fresh, young, trained troops they were out of their own league. Their vaunted mobility was anything but at the time. Horses and being unable to travel in daylight is a slow way to move an Army.

Then Chapter 3 where the first Americans arrive after the Canucks had been there awhile. Reminded me of four brothers in a way. The brothers being Brits, Aussies, Canadians, and Americans. After high school they go their separate ways until 50 years later for a reunion. The first three stayed in touch somewhat but not their American brother. The children of the first three had heard stories about their black sheep uncle. They were excited to meet that black sheep uncle when he arrived as his exploits sounded so cool. Independent, brash, outgoing, on the move doing different things in life compared to their steady fathers. When they meet him he is everything they thought while their fathers were like who are you. Soon the differences would melt away and they were brothers again.

I would pause when reading that part to reflect in my mind what that time was like when all the family was their for one common goal. Even if Aussie were mainly in the Pacific but so were the Brits and us. Like the gunfight at the OK Corral.

Out of town but when back have a question or two for you.

[Albany Rifles]

My take on the first four chapters, You are right in what I had learned through other books. One, that the Germans were top notch but they weren't. Compared to our fresh, young, trained troops they were out of their own league. Their vaunted mobility was anything but at the time. Horses and being unable to travel in daylight is a slow way to move an Army.

Then Chapter 3 where the first Americans arrive after the Canucks had been there awhile. Reminded me of four brothers in a way. The brothers being Brits, Aussies, Canadians, and Americans. After high school they go their separate ways until 50 years later for a reunion. The first three stayed in touch somewhat but not their American brother. The children of the first three had heard stories about their black sheep uncle. They were excited to meet that black sheep uncle when he arrived as his exploits sounded so cool. Independent, brash, outgoing, on the move doing different things in life compared to their steady fathers. When they meet him he is everything they thought while their fathers were like who are you. Soon the differences would melt away and they were brothers again.

I would pause when reading that part to reflect in my mind what that time was like when all the family was their for one common goal. Even if Aussie were mainly in the Pacific but so were the Brits and us. Like the gunfight at the OK Corral.

Out of town but when back have a question or two for you.

That is one of the greatest analogies of the 4 nations relationships I think I have ever read!!! Well done!

And looking forward to your questions!

[S2]

Doing some American Revolutionary war reading. Just finished an interesting bio of George Washington's (largely) political, business and personal development-particularly political. How fortunate for our nation that a man both universally esteemed, modest and with our future nation's best interests at heart led the way...

...often doing so "from the rear". Few were his equal at reading tea leaves. See George Washington-A Political Rise of America's Founding Father- David O. Stewart

Presently reading Joseph J Ellis' The Cause: The American Revolution and Its Discontents 1773-1783

I am dismayed at how little I still understand about our nation's birth. What a wild proposition these men carried within themselves and for that dream to find realization was frankly beyond miraculous.

[Albany Rifles]

Doing some American Revolutionary war reading. Just finished an interesting bio of George Washington's (largely) political, business and personal development-particularly political. How fortunate for our nation that a man both universally esteemed, modest and with our future nation's best interests at heart led the way...

...often doing so "from the rear". Few were his equal at reading tea leaves. See George Washington-A Political Rise of America's Founding Father- David O. Stewart

Presently reading Joseph J Ellis' The Cause: The American Revolution and Its Discontents 1773-1783

I am dismayed at how little I still understand about our nation's birth. What a wild proposition these men carried within themselves and for that dream to find realization was frankly beyond miraculous.

I have not read those but have heard excellent reviews. Adding to my list. If you want some good battle studies just ask.

[tbm3fan]

Doing some American Revolutionary war reading. Just finished an interesting bio of George Washington's (largely) political, business and personal development-particularly political. How fortunate for our nation that a man both universally esteemed, modest and with our future nation's best interests at heart led the way...

...often doing so "from the rear". Few were his equal at reading tea leaves. See George Washington-A Political Rise of America's Founding Father- David O. Stewart

Presently reading Joseph J Ellis' The Cause: The American Revolution and Its Discontents 1773-1783

I am dismayed at how little I still understand about our nation's birth. What a wild proposition these men carried within themselves and for that dream to find realization was frankly beyond miraculous.

Given that we have seen how easily rational, in theory, Americans have bought into Trump's demigodry, just like rational German's bought into Hitler's, it is amazing what they created here. Given that those two despots had tools at their disposal that the Father's didn't such as media, they did have few Americans who really knew what was going on back then. The fact that they created this government, unlike any other at the time, and it has lasted for 248 years is testimony to their character making what they did one of the most amazing accomplishments in world history. Nonetheless, there are going to always be those who want to chuck it all for their own narrow minded benefit. Similar as to how Germany is dealing with AfD now. They never disappear.

[tbm3fan]

That is one of the greatest analogies of the 4 nations relationships I think I have ever read!!! Well done!

And looking forward to your questions!

I need to go back over what I read in the 1st or 2nd chapter where I had a question. Yet for now I have some current questions and will ask as I move through the chapters. as they come up.

In Chapter 10 Allen and Roosevelt were relieved in command of the 1st Infantry Division. Bradley wrote about it in his memoirs. The two commanders were extremely popular with their men. I understand that Allen was a bit of a maverick when it came to senior commanders. Yet it sounds like he got results and his men would follow him anywhere. Being removed compromised the morale of the entire Division. That would be bad in my eyes. So what are these change - management studies? Are they private industry or are there military equivalents?

Second, I personally have never taken benzedrine. Used to stay awake when one should really have rest. I know, that personally, I am useless, if I get only 5 hours of sleep. Hang over type headache, short tempered, and irritable. Six hours and I am good for 1/2 day. When going to the Reserve Fleet, years ago, I could only manage six hours of sleep. The adrenaline of parts hunting kept me engaged until noon and lunch. I quickly learned you can fall asleep on a steel deck with no problems. In short you wouldn't want me operating equipment with five hours of sleep much than less than that. So is this a WWII thing or...?

Third, two generals were involved who were in the Pacific. Really? They brought them over for D-Day? I understand experience but their experience is of fighting the Japanese on an island and not a more mechanized army on a continent.

[Albany Rifles]

I need to go back over what I read in the 1st or 2nd chapter where I had a question. Yet for now I have some current questions and will ask as I move through the chapters. as they come up.

In Chapter 10 Allen and Roosevelt were relieved in command of the 1st Infantry Division. Bradley wrote about it in his memoirs. The two commanders were extremely popular with their men. I understand that Allen was a bit of a maverick when it came to senior commanders. Yet it sounds like he got results and his men would follow him anywhere. Being removed compromised the morale of the entire Division. That would be bad in my eyes. So what are these change - management studies? Are they private industry or are there military equivalents?

Second, I personally have never taken benzedrine. Used to stay awake when one should really have rest. I know, that personally, I am useless, if I get only 5 hours of sleep. Hang over type headache, short tempered, and irritable. Six hours and I am good for 1/2 day. When going to the Reserve Fleet, years ago, I could only manage six hours of sleep. The adrenaline of parts hunting kept me engaged until noon and lunch. I quickly learned you can fall asleep on a steel deck with no problems. In short you wouldn't want me operating equipment with five hours of sleep much than less than that. So is this a WWII thing or...?

Third, two generals were involved who were in the Pacific. Really? They brought them over for D-Day? I understand experience but their experience is of fighting the Japanese on an island and not a more mechanized army on a continent.

Let me get back to you.

[Monash]

I need to go back over what I read in the 1st or 2nd chapter where I had a question. Yet for now I have some current questions and will ask as I move through the chapters. as they come up....

... Third, two generals were involved who were in the Pacific. Really? They brought them over for D-Day? (As I understand the experience) but their 'experience' is endless repeats of fighting the Japanese on an island and not a more mechanized army on a continent.

I would have thought their experience in commanding/managing large scale sea borne landings/assaults would be relevant. At least initially, until such time as the beachhead was secured and allied forces had pushed far enough inland so as to give their merchandised an infantry forces room to maneuver. IMO that's the point where I would see Allen's and Roosevelt's experience becoming mute.

[Albany Rifles]

I can see the reasoning. Allen & Roosevelt had allowed the 1st Division to lose its self discipline. I am a proud member of the Society of the First Division and was a member for 4 years. But to handle the West Wall Ike & Bradley needed a tough, well trained, DISCIPLINED unit. The units hitting Omaha were going to face their toughest opposition of the war. Soldiers and junior leaders needed to have the self discipline and tenacity to take the objective regardless. Keep in mind most of the other units hitting Omaha would be facing their first combat. There had to be a hard kernel for the other units to hold on to in order to take the beach. Clarence Huebner was the PERFECT task master and disciplinarian the unit needed. Law & order was restored. Huebner basically told the entire division to get over being sorry for yourself and buckle down and get ready for the task. He earned the grudging respect of the Soldiers of the division.

And Allen & Roosevelt's skills were not lost. Roosevelt helped Tubby Barton get the rookie 4 ID ready and helped with the training by passing on his knowledge of amphibious warfare. Allen took command of the new 104th Infantry Division and trained them up. They performed well in their first combat under the 1st Canadian Army in the fall of 1944 helping clear the Scheldt Estuary and performed well in the Bulge and the onward combat into Germany.

So I see the move as addition by subtraction...2 leaders who had lost their discipline edge went to 2 new divisions and helped prepare them for successful combat and lynchpin division for the OVERLORD was returned to a disciplined, combat proven outfit.

Matters were too important to worry about sentimentality.

[tbm3fan]

I can see the reasoning. Allen & Roosevelt had allowed the 1st Division to lose its self discipline. I am a proud member of the Society of the First Division and was a member for 4 years. But to handle the West Wall Ike & Bradley needed a tough, well trained, DISCIPLINED unit. The units hitting Omaha were going to face their toughest opposition of the war. Soldiers and junior leaders needed to have the self discipline and tenacity to take the objective regardless. Keep in mind most of the other units hitting Omaha would be facing their first combat. There had to be a hard kernel for the other units to hold on to in order to take the beach. Clarence Huebner was the PERFECT task master and disciplinarian the unit needed. Law & order was restored. Huebner basically told the entire division to get over being sorry for yourself and buckle down and get ready for the task. He earned the grudging respect of the Soldiers of the division.

And Allen & Roosevelt's skills were not lost. Roosevelt helped Tubby Barton get the rookie 4 ID ready and helped with the training by passing on his knowledge of amphibious warfare. Allen took command of the new 104th Infantry Division and trained them up. They performed well in their first combat under the 1st Canadian Army in the fall of 1944 helping clear the Scheldt Estuary and performed well in the Bulge and the onward combat into Germany.

So I see the move as addition by subtraction...2 leaders who had lost their discipline edge went to 2 new divisions and helped prepare them for successful combat and lynchpin division for the OVERLORD was returned to a disciplined, combat proven outfit.

Matters were too important to worry about sentimentality.

The part in the book, page 188, the author doesn't go into that. You read it so you know what I am referring to. The author says Allen was ill- disciplined. I assume to superior commanders but there is nothing about the troops. Knowing you specialize in history I figured you would have a deeper background knowledge. So you may get more from me.

Thanks...