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TSA hits a new low

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  • Firestorm
    replied
    IIRC, the requirement to remove shoes came about as a result of the Shoe Bomber incident. Removing the belt ensures that the buckle doesn't set off the metal detector. Personally, I don't mind it. How difficult is it really to remove your shoes/belt and put them on again? It barely takes a couple of minutes. We shouldn't complain about a little bit of discomfort if it ensures safety.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigross86
    replied
    I think the "Zero Tolerance" comment was not necessarily directed at America and the 2nd Amendment, but rather at the TSA and their unbending, unwavering dogmatic observance of stupid rules.

    Take this case: The gun is several inches big. Even the simplest, most cursory examination by any employee, not even a supervisor, would show it's a trinket, nothing more. But due to the TSA's zero tolerance policy, the tiny toy gun was confiscated.

    By the way, there is an underlying problem which you unwittingly addressed:

    People have to take off belts & shoes & get body scanned. I've had to turn on electronic devices just to show that they worked. I think restrictions on taking replica guns onto aircraft are understandable in that context.
    The underlying problem is that context. I flew to JFK from Tel Aviv beginning of October. When my mate and passed baggage security and check in and reached the second security check before passport control, where carry-on baggage is scanned and you have to go through medal detectors, my friend jokingly said (in Hebrew) something about taking off his shoes and his belt. The security lady looked at him like he was a moron and said "No, you only have to do that in the US. We're normal here".

    Now, it could definitely be argued that the Israelis in general and El Al in particular are some of the best in the world at airline, airplane and airport security. So, if the Israelis don't force you to take off your shoes/jacket/belt and go through a mm-wave full body scan, why does the TSA force you? It is this context, this rigid and dogmatic mindset which leaves no room for flexibility or adaptation of the rules, is what leads to that very same "Zero Tolerance" which in this case led to the confiscation of an inches-big toy replica of a gun that doesn't have any moving parts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    What is a "gun?" What makes an object a "gun?" When you pick up an object and examine it, can you tell that object might be a gun or rule it out completely?
    A fascinating philosophical discussion to have on the internet. No idea what it has to do with aircraft security. People doing that don't have better things to do. There are things you don't get to take on planes. Things that look like or might be guns are among them. SO are things that might be liquid explosives. Deal.

    Where did I say anything about liberals?
    Spare me. You are too old to play those games.

    Have you heard about the story of a kid who was suspended from school because he chewed a pop tart into the shape of a gun?

    Student Suspended For Pop-Tart Gun, Josh Welch, Files Appeal With Maryland County School System

    How about "finger bang?"

    Parents Furious After Boys Suspended For Using Fingers As Guns « CBS Baltimore

    Ever played with G I Joe when you were a kid?

    Toy Gun Gets Kindergartner Into Trouble At Massachusetts School (VIDEO)
    Like I said, everybody wants to be a victim. How many guns do you own again? How many more could you own if you chose to? America does not have a 'zero tolerance' attitude to guns because a few kids get yelled at. You are conflating 'not the exact attitude I would like' with 'zero tolerance'. Not even a bit the same. Just so we are clear, a 'zero tolerance' attitude to guns means nobody gets to have them (BTW, that means Australia doesn't count either). Pretty simple stuff really. Save the victimhood stuff for somewhere else.

    Oh, and just to reiterate, this has absolutely nothing to do with the TSA or airport security.
    Last edited by Bigfella; 10 Dec 13,, 23:38.

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  • gunnut
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    No, it has something to do with people not wanting guns on aircraft. This may be a slight overreaction, but it is neither some grand liberal conspiracy against guns nor the end of a free America. There are restrictions on taking liquids onto planes. People have to take off belts & shoes & get body scanned. I've had to turn on electronic devices just to show that they worked. I think restrictions on taking replica guns onto aircraft are understandable in that context.

    BTW, your society is about as far from a 'zero tolerance' society when it comes to firearms as it is possible to get this side of Somalia. Why is everybody in America so damned desperate to be a victim?
    What is a "gun?" What makes an object a "gun?" When you pick up an object and examine it, can you tell that object might be a gun or rule it out completely?

    Where did I say anything about liberals?

    Have you heard about the story of a kid who was suspended from school because he chewed a pop tart into the shape of a gun?

    Student Suspended For Pop-Tart Gun, Josh Welch, Files Appeal With Maryland County School System

    How about "finger bang?"

    Parents Furious After Boys Suspended For Using Fingers As Guns « CBS Baltimore

    Ever played with G I Joe when you were a kid?

    Toy Gun Gets Kindergartner Into Trouble At Massachusetts School (VIDEO)

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    I didn't misunderstand the article. I was merely making an absurd observation about the "zero" tolerance of "guns" in our society today in general.

    Now that I see the picture, I can understand the TSA worker's concern. However, just a closer examination should review it's a non-working, scaled replica. Again, the "zero tolerance" policy may have something to do with the idiocy regarding "guns" that we have seen.
    No, it has something to do with people not wanting guns on aircraft. This may be a slight overreaction, but it is neither some grand liberal conspiracy against guns nor the end of a free America. There are restrictions on taking liquids onto planes. People have to take off belts & shoes & get body scanned. I've had to turn on electronic devices just to show that they worked. I think restrictions on taking replica guns onto aircraft are understandable in that context.

    BTW, your society is about as far from a 'zero tolerance' society when it comes to firearms as it is possible to get this side of Somalia. Why is everybody in America so damned desperate to be a victim?

    Leave a comment:


  • gunnut
    replied
    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
    Gunnut, I fear there may be a slight misunderstanding due to the title. Looking at the picture, it actually does look like a gun, just a tiny, tiny, tiny gun.
    I didn't misunderstand the article. I was merely making an absurd observation about the "zero" tolerance of "guns" in our society today in general.

    Now that I see the picture, I can understand the TSA worker's concern. However, just a closer examination should review it's a non-working, scaled replica. Again, the "zero tolerance" policy may have something to do with the idiocy regarding "guns" that we have seen.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigross86
    replied
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    Ever noticed that many socks are in the shape of a gun?
    Gunnut, I fear there may be a slight misunderstanding due to the title. Looking at the picture, it actually does look like a gun, just a tiny, tiny, tiny gun.

    Attached Files

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  • gunnut
    replied
    Ever noticed that many socks are in the shape of a gun?

    Leave a comment:


  • bonehead
    replied
    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
    Seriously, you're still looking for logic in the TSA?
    Absolutely not. I am simply not looking forward to my next dealings with them. For the most part for me flying is a last resort and the TSA is one of the reasons why.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by tuna View Post
    My response would have been, "Then do it - call the police and let's waste everyone's time. If you aren't willing to make the call because it is obviously BS - then shut the heck up, go back to your screen and enjoy the pretense of making a difference".
    ....and their response would have been to sit you in a room until you missed your flight.

    Having just spent 3 weeks in a country where my bags were checked twice before every flight & even going into some hotels & where cars I was in were stopped numerous times for ID checks, I have become very good at smiling at people who have the power to arbitrarily detain me for long enough to screw up my day or my week. Even ended up giving rides to a few policemen to keep them sweet.

    Confronting some low level functionary is usually a losing prospect. They don't care about the speech you want to give, you do care about getting where you are going.

    Leave a comment:


  • tuna
    replied
    Originally posted by bonehead View Post
    The "gun" is roughly the size of three quarters placed end-to-end. The TSA agent took Rooster's gun and told May that she was supposed to contact the police. May asked the agent if she was kidding, and the agent assured her that she wasn't.
    My response would have been, "Then do it - call the police and let's waste everyone's time. If you aren't willing to make the call because it is obviously BS - then shut the heck up, go back to your screen and enjoy the pretense of making a difference".

    Leave a comment:


  • bigross86
    replied
    Seriously, you're still looking for logic in the TSA?

    Leave a comment:


  • bonehead
    started a topic TSA hits a new low

    TSA hits a new low

    Sock monkey's toy gun confiscated by TSA





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    Rooster Monkburn (Phyllis May via King5.com)
    Transportation Security Administration workers can face real danger, as was demonstrated during the deadly shooting at Los Angeles International Airport last month.

    Still, confiscating a sock monkey's sidearm? Washington state resident Phyllis May told Seattle's King5.com that she was chastised by a TSA agent over the fact that her stuffed sock monkey (name: Rooster Monkburn, a takeoff on Rooster Cogburn of "True Grit" fame) carried a toy pistol.

    May told King5.com that she and her husband were going through security at St. Louis International Airport when a TSA agent held up one of her bags and asked who it belonged to.

    May, who sells customized sock monkeys online, told the agent it belonged to her. That's then things took a turn for the surreal.

    Via King5.com:

    “She said, 'This is a gun,’ ” said May. “I said no, it’s not a gun it’s a prop for my monkey.”

    “She said if I held it up to your neck, you wouldn’t know if it was real or not, and I said, 'Really?’ ” said May.

    The "gun" is roughly the size of three quarters placed end-to-end. The TSA agent took Rooster's gun and told May that she was supposed to contact the police. May asked the agent if she was kidding, and the agent assured her that she wasn't.

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    The "gun" in question (Phyllis May via King5.com)
    According to King5.com, the agent did not alert the police. May did get the rest of her sewing supplies back. No word on what happened to Rooster's gun, but May was able to see the humor in the situation.

    Via King5.com:

    “Rooster Monkburn has been disarmed so I’m sure everyone on the plane was safe,” she said. “I understand she was doing her job but at some point doesn’t common sense prevail?”











    I may have to go to Cleveland next spring and I am dreading getting on a plane. They are going to shit bricks when they see my Dana Designs bomb pack I travel with.
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