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Where's there life, there's hope..............BUT..............

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  • Where's there life, there's hope..............BUT..............

    As I mentioned in "Face Value", I once did the monologue of 2010 where Floyd, there the boy, talks his wife, about aerobraking into Jupiter's atmosphere. It went something like this (unlike the movie)

    "Dear Jonathan, by the time you hear this, I will either be a headline on the evening news right after the Central American crisis or I'm fine. Either way, I want you to know, what you to know how I feel.

    We are about to start the aerobraking maneuver. I once told you about this. The theory is we will enter the outer layer of Jupiter's atmosphere at just the proper angle. The atmosphere will slow us down and Jupiter's gravity will grab ahold of us and sling shot us around the dark side and back towards where we are now. This will slow us down and put us in a gentle orbit around Io. It's kind of like running down the street and grabbing a light pole and swinging back up the street again.

    It's all suppose to work. It's dynamite on paper! But.....the people who came up with those paper numbers aren't here, are they? They are back home hoping they are right. And if they aren't.........

    The problem is that if we hit the atmosphere at the wrong angle, we will either burn up or go bouncing off into space without enough fuel ever to get back. If the numbers are right, I'll be fine. If not.......sigh.....please don't let them say too much slop about me on the news. At the very least, when you're dead on the news, they tend to use older pictures, so I'll look slimmer."

    Something like that.

    So there you are, out there, be it coming back from the moon or going into orbit around another planet.

    If it goes wrong, which would your prefer?

    Be a falling star and die then and there?

    Or to go shooting off into space, alive, doomed, trying to solve the equation to the last moment?

  • #2
    The old wisdom goes like this:

    I like to die in sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and shouting like his passengers.

    But, as long as there is food and water, there is hope. Once the food is gone, full throttle, time to sleep ;)
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      The old wisdom goes like this:

      I like to die in sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and shouting like his passengers.

      But, as long as there is food and water, there is hope. Once the food is gone, full throttle, time to sleep ;)
      Funny you should put it like that.

      If one is in an Apollo capsule or an X-20, one might watch themselves get thinner and thinner.

      But with the Leonov, there is an additional factor I forgot about. The hibernation chambers. One might have to go into them, to leave more supplies for the others, and face what is to come that way.

      So, you might get your wish, go in your sleep like granddad.

      As it is, I think I need to re-examine that "role" again. At the time, I don't remember too much about actually doing it...............except that the teacher at the time liked to RAKE US ALL OVER THE COALS.............she wasn't too popular back then.
      Last edited by Tamara; 20 Nov 13,, 13:56.

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      • #4
        Hope is not a Strategy in a survival scenario.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Norseman View Post
          Hope is not a Strategy in a survival scenario.
          True. But what you gonna do without liquids?
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            True. But what you gonna do without liquids?
            Condensation.
            I can generate water in any environment either from the air, soil or plants.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Norseman View Post
              Condensation.
              I can generate water in any environment either from the air, soil or plants.
              In Jupiter's atmosphere. And your source of heat will run out.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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              • #8
                I was referring to survival in general.
                It doesn't take genius to understand that survival depends on the fact that the environment support human life.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  I am not in argument, just following the initial post.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Read you loud and clear, mate. ;)
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Let us look at the questions again.

                      1. The mission has failed and your choice is it has failed because the aerobraking angle was too steep and you burned up, broke up, in Jupiter's atmosphere and are dead OR the aerobraking angle was too slight and you skipped off the atmosphere like a rock on a pond and went off into deep (er) space, without the fuel to get back. So which do you want to do?

                      2. The Leonov is like the Discovery, nice and high tech even by our standards today, but it is no Starship. Power is limited to a vast degree. You had to put various members of the crew in hibernation to conserve supplies to get out there and in the plan, you would do the same for the trip home.

                      3. Like Silent Running, if/when you go skipping off into space, the sun is going to be pretty faint out there, so there might not be much of it use. NOW, in this story line, in a few days, there will be another sun to add to things, so that could somewhat change things.................but right now, you don't know that yet and as scientists, such a concept is far, far beyond what you might consider as a what if. Ie, if you are considering that at this point, you might as well consider the Gods picking up the ship and throwing it back to Earth.

                      4. Finally, keep in mind that what is on the ship are the only things you have and there about about 10 people, when they are all awake, using it.

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                      • #12
                        I don't think you would have a choice on how things got fubared. Option one burning up was not a conscious choice...just cause and effect. Not much you can do but kiss your ass goodbye. The second scenario,bouncing off the atmosphere, holds some choices, either burn out or fade away.

                        Burn out...find the nearest mass and plow to it or somehow self destruct.

                        Fade away.....sit down and discuss rationally just how long you have and possible ways to remedy the situation. Apollo 13 was a mission where many had given up hope but luck did turn and the odds were beaten. What we have here is the makings of a reality show. "Survivor..Deep Space". You know that out of 10 people on the ship there will be 4 different options at a minimum. People are going to group together and plot. Someone is going to take a long space walk to either conserve resources and/or because they were on the wrong end of a power struggle.

                        I would opt for the Fade away. That is a problem to be solved and I am the type to go down fighting rather than waving a white flag.
                        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                        • #13
                          What's a reality show?

                          As far as knifing someone in the back, thought it might go that way, so just remember, 7 Soviets, 3 Americans........and the only women (in the movie version) are the Soviets.
                          Last edited by Tamara; 21 Nov 13,, 04:57.

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                          • #14
                            A "reality" show is where the producers put people in a group stir the pot and the viewers get to watch obsessively. Nothing real about it on TV but the viewers are duped into believing so.
                            There is however the always present psychological aspects of being separated from humanity on an island, spaceship , etc and you get to throw out "civilized" rules and order and make up your own. That is magnified under times of stress. There have been reports in the American space program where mission control had ben riding the astronauts a bit hard and the astronauts basically replied "F.U. we are modifying the routine." That was only after a couple of days in space. Imagine how independent the astronauts will be after 3 months in space. Another phenomenon is how the walls come crashing down when you are with a person or group 24/7. After a week there is no Soviets or Americans. There are people working to the same goal. However when things get really stressful and lives are on the line people generally do what is best for their own personal survival and they would tend to group with others that share the same ideas for survival. There is also no denying that when you have both sexes together on a long trip there will be couplings and that will complicate things as well.
                            Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                              A "reality" show is where the producers put people in a group stir the pot and the viewers get to watch obsessively. Nothing real about it on TV but the viewers are duped into believing so.
                              There is however the always present psychological aspects of being separated from humanity on an island, spaceship , etc and you get to throw out "civilized" rules and order and make up your own. That is magnified under times of stress. There have been reports in the American space program where mission control had ben riding the astronauts a bit hard and the astronauts basically replied "F.U. we are modifying the routine." That was only after a couple of days in space. Imagine how independent the astronauts will be after 3 months in space. Another phenomenon is how the walls come crashing down when you are with a person or group 24/7. After a week there is no Soviets or Americans. There are people working to the same goal. However when things get really stressful and lives are on the line people generally do what is best for their own personal survival and they would tend to group with others that share the same ideas for survival. There is also no denying that when you have both sexes together on a long trip there will be couplings and that will complicate things as well.
                              Yes and when the crew of Apollo 7 did that, the two astronauts who were not retiring never flew again for NASA. Decisions can have consequences.

                              Difficult to say whether or not there would be no Soviets or Americans, because, among other things, when one is taught their entire life to think a way that is not quite reality, at least from the American point of view, that is kind of hard to break.

                              As far as throwing out the civilized rules, that may not happen. Remember Captain Bligh and the long boat or Eddie Rickenbacker in WWII.

                              Now, this TV you speak of......that's a form of entertainment?

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