Shooting in Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.

[Tronic]

Pretty interesting doc on British Sikhs:

[Doktor]

Dok, I'm impressed you knew about the existence of Sikhs on this planet and can differentiate. ;)

You knew this before you asked me about the avatar or after?

Saw this comming. I would call them Indians, not Sikhs, but would have differentiated them from Talibans ;) And as I said we have none here.

A little lost, mate. Where do India and Pakistan fit in?

If tomorrow Pakistan does something and Pakistani community in USA becomes a target of hate crimes I wonder what campaign would have been done to make a difference on first sight.

[Tronic]

Saw this comming. I would call them Indians, not Sikhs, but would have differentiated them from Talibans ;) And as I said we have none here.


If tomorrow Pakistan does something and Pakistani community in USA becomes a target of hate crimes I wonder what campaign would have been done to make a difference on first sight.

Dok, the Indian-Pakistani politics doesn't come into play here since a large portion of Sikhs in the Americas, especially the ones on the West coast, are second or third generation Sikhs and don't identify themselves as Indians. Their great-grandfathers migrated to the Americas in the late 1800s or early 1900s, at a time when Pakistan did not exist and Punjab was undivided, meaning many of their ancestral homes are today in the Punjabi lands which became a part of Pakistan in 1947. Besides them, the Sikh community in the West is also made up of a large portion of the over 100,000 Afghan Sikhs which have been fleeing Afghanistan since the '80s due to religious persecution in that country. The subcontinent's geopolitics are of little concern to the larger Sikh communities in the West.

[Vinod2070]

Dok, the Indian-Pakistani politics doesn't come into play here since a large portion of Sikhs in the Americas, especially the ones on the West coast, are second or third generation Sikhs and don't identify themselves as Indians. Their great-grandfathers migrated to the Americas in the late 1800s or early 1900s, at a time when Pakistan did not exist and Punjab was undivided, meaning many of their ancestral homes are today in the Punjabi lands which became a part of Pakistan in 1947. Besides them, the Sikh community in the West is also made up of a large portion of the over 100,000 Afghan Sikhs which have been fleeing Afghanistan since the '80s due to religious persecution in that country. The subcontinent's geopolitics are of little concern to the larger Sikh communities in the West.

How large is that portion?

I have met a few on the West coast and most of them still have families/property and interests in India. They travel there quite frequently and consider themselves American Indians like many other American Indians.

Of course, this is not to say there may not be many who identify themselves as just American. Especially after the tragic events of 1984. Many in areas like Vancouver have become quite radical as well.

Some have come quite far from the days when Hindu families sent their oldest kids to become Sikhs and go save the Dharma. ;)

[Tronic]

How large is that portion?

I have met a few on the West coast and most of them still have families/property and interests in India. They travel there quite frequently and consider themselves American Indians like many other American Indians.

Of course, this is not to say there may not be many who identify themselves as just American. Especially after the tragic events of 1984.

Vinod, the point being that the Sikh community in the Americas (both Canada and the US) is very diverse; therefore, they do not collectively identify themselves as Indian.

I’ve travelled to BC and seen the Vancouver lowlands, places like Surrey, largely consist of recent immigrants from India and they all huddle up in the same suburbs. The older generation Sikh migrants are largely spread out through Northern areas of Vancouver, as well as rural BC. They are more integrated and spread out unlike the recent immigrant communities. The farms and lumber mills in BC mostly belong to the older gen Sikh community.

If you were to travel to Espanola in New Mexico, the Sikh community there is largely Caucasian, with some Afro-American converts. They belong to an American sect of Sikhism called the “Sikh Dharma", and although they are seen as heretics by the Punjabi clergy, they still form a part of the wider American Sikh community, numbering in their thousands.

Many in areas like Vancouver have become quite radical as well.

Radical in their support of Punjab's secession from India, yes. Religiously radical? Not really.

Some have come quite far from the days when Hindu families sent their oldest kids to become Sikhs and go save the Dharma. ;)

Vinod, that's largely a myth. The Sikh Empire was established on the backbone of 12 independent Sikh 'Misls'. Each Misl was composed of a particular Punjabi clan. The Dhillon clan made up the Bhangi Misl, the Sidhu clan made up the Phulkian Misl, the Sandhu clan made up the Kanhaiya and the Nakai Misls, the Shaheedan Misl was made up of the very orthodox Damdama Sikhs (same fundamentalist religious school, Damdami Taksal, which Bhinderenwala would be a product of centuries later), etc, etc. The eldest Hindu son being raised a Sikh may have been a later practice, due to the discrimination in military recruitment practiced by the British in Punjab.

[Vinod2070]

The eldest Hindu son being raised a Sikh may have been a later practice, due to the discrimination in military recruitment practiced by the British in Punjab.

I guess I need to read up more on this aspect.