American anti intellectualism

[gunnut]

There is a very wide range of quality in US public schools, so it could be misleading to generalize too much. That being said, from my perspective, the typical US high school student is bright, but uninformed; opinionated, but unable to distinguish fact from theory; generally aware of major US military activity abroad, but ignorant of the history behind the involvement, and usually unable to name many foreign countries, much less identify them on a map.

A recent example: On the Saturday after the Georgian-Russian war kicked off, I was at the local shooting range, and the lobby was packed with people waiting for lanes, among whom were several local students. They were discussing the war, and had so much bad information that I felt compelled to gingerly enter their conversation with a couple of corrections. They began to ask questions, and fifteen minutes later, I had more than a dozen people participating. I had to quickly sketch a crude map of the area to illustrate what I was saying. The most common response I heard, from both current students and adults, was "Why didn't we get any of this in school?"

Because our public school teachers are busy teaching the evils of capitalism and the misguided American foreign policies.

[RadioPatrol]

I had to quickly sketch a crude map of the area to illustrate what I was saying. The most common response I heard, from both current students and adults, was "Why didn't we get any of this in school?"

I paid attention to History and goofed off in English Grammar Class .... and still see not need to diagram sentences .... Lit I did ok in because I liked to read ...

it is a matter of where your interests lie and I also took a summer and 3 yrs of JAFROTC so one summer when guy were chasing their GF's I was sweating in WW II Barracks @ Ft Meade MD .... I got bonus points for my instructors, and pissed off a lot of classmates cause I had an extra stripe ... I also got to go in the Army as an E-3 when I enlisted .. which pissed off a bunch more people when I got to my 1st Duty Station fresh out of Basic and an E-3 inline for E-4 Slots (like I had a clue then)

Class of 1984 so I am an old guy these days

[Blue]

This explains alot and supports the thread subject exactly.

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

[Bigfella]

This explains alot and supports the thread subject exactly.

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

Careful Sniper, what the poll proves is that if you ask the right questions & manipulate the way you present the results you can 'prove' anything. It also suggests that Obama voters prefer not to guess when they are unsure, and mostly get it right when they do answer. Not exactly the end of American civilization.

A few examples:

*There are several questions that relate to events that took place quite some time ago & sometimes involve elements of intepretation - they relate to Obama & Biden.

Where were the equivalent questions about McCain? Something comparable might have brought up his graduation at the bottom of his class or his marital infidelity. I'm betting they would have got similar 'Not Sure' responses.

*The questions were worded to get the desired result:

'can see Russia from their house' - People don't assume pollsters are going to misquote, and since Palin's home state was highly publicized, the question just sets up an 'I told you so' response.

The '$150,000 wardrobe' question refers in simple terms to a campaign event. Why not ask 'which candidate was accused of 'palling around with terrorists?'. Instead the reference to Obama's associations is much more obscure. Those who answered got it overwhelmingly correct anyway.

Questions asking which candidate said 'X' about another also sets up failure when the statement is something more than one could easily have said. I imagine that McCain made comments suggesting that Obama would be tested. At the very least it is just the sort of thing he could esily have said. Again, a clear majority knew it was Biden & only 25% got it wrong.

When a direct, straighforward question about Obama's actual campign was asked (spread the wealth) the respondents got it correct in huge numbers.

* If you want to understand the purpose of the poll, read the ACTUAL figures & then look at how they are analysed on the 'How Obama Got elected' website. Pay attention to what it doesn't say too. Oh, and pointing out '25% correct by guessing' is deliberately misleading in polls with a 'none' and 'not sure' option. Guessing is only relevant if people are compelled to.

This website is pure propaganda, and not very subtle at that. The author reached his conclusions before the campaign & then constructed polling questions that would give him the answers he wanted. This was not an exercise in fact finding.

[RadioPatrol]

*The questions were worded to get the desired result:

'can see Russia from their house' - People don't assume pollsters are going to misquote, and since Palin's home state was highly publicized, the question just sets up an 'I told you so' response.

The '$150,000 wardrobe' question refers in simple terms to a campaign event. Why not ask 'which candidate was accused of 'palling around with terrorists?'. Instead the reference to Obama's associations is much more obscure. Those who answered got it overwhelmingly correct anyway.

Most Polls are designed to get the desired results .... do you really think CNN, WashPo polls questions are not slanted to make their guy look good, in this case which was Obama, which is the point of HowObamaGotElecteced.

the media was in the TANK for Obama ...

I also beleive because of that Media Portrayal of Palin was no fair .... people remember the screeching about the $150k spent on clothes .... it was blared from lots of places .... can you tell me how many news stories you saw about Michelle Obama's Designer Wardrobe ... give to her by "Friends" who were the designers ???

the only place I saw stories about terrorists friends of Obama was Fox News ... and listening to the Usual Conservative Talk Shows .... the LSM Ignored the store as not news worthy .... God Forbid the American People find out Obama is paling around with 60s Bomb Throwers

how many people could not state who was running the Congress since 06 .... ??

It was a good indication on how the left and its media enablers did a good job of hiding the fact N Pelosi has been in charge of the Senate and done nothing to push the Democrat Agenda of ending the WAR ... like they promised in 05-06 going into the Mid Term Elections .... "Elect us and we will bring the Troops Home"

yeah ah huh .... emm ok

[ASG]

This explains alot and supports the thread subject exactly.

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

There are 3 kinds of lies.

Lies, lies and statistics.

I could make a web-page and host a video on it to prove something.


How can the website claim that those are genuine Obama voters? Do the voters in the USA openly come out declaring that they voted for a particular guy? What is the point in having secret-ballot then?


Someone creates a website and hopes people to believe his unauthenticated claims. And some people do just that. Having more faith in what other people say, rather than their own judgement.


Kinda in-sync with the original post in this thread, eh.


:)

[tim52]

Obama’s Use of Complete Sentences Stirs Controversy

Stunning Break with Last Eight Years

In the first two weeks since the election, President-elect Barack Obama has broken with a tradition established over the past eight years through his controversial use of complete sentences, political observers say.

Millions of Americans who watched Mr. Obama's appearance on CBS' "Sixty Minutes" on Sunday witnessed the president-elect's unorthodox verbal tick, which had Mr. Obama employing grammatically correct sentences virtually every time he opened his mouth.

But Mr. Obama's decision to use complete sentences in his public pronouncements carries with it certain risks, since after the last eight years many Americans may find his odd speaking style jarring.

According to presidential historian Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, some Americans might find it "alienating" to have a President who speaks English as if it were his first language.

"Every time Obama opens his mouth, his subjects and verbs are in agreement," says Mr. Logsdon. "If he keeps it up, he is running the risk of sounding like an elitist."

The historian said that if Mr. Obama insists on using complete sentences in his speeches, the public may find itself saying, "Okay, subject, predicate, subject predicate - we get it, stop showing off."

The President-elect's stubborn insistence on using complete sentences has already attracted a rebuke from one of his harshest critics, Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.

"Talking with complete sentences there and also too talking in a way that ordinary Americans like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder can't really do there, I think needing to do that isn't tapping into what Americans are needing also," she said.

[Blue]

OK Folks. First I want to make clear that I did not post this to start a political argument. This IS NOT about attacking libs or Dems. BHO is pres, nuff said. My point here is that you could have taken voters on either side and most likely came up with many who couldn't have answered the simplest of questions, ie. who is Pelosi, Frank. These are people who voted with their heart because of the hype instead of with thier head because of the facts. This is anti-intellectualism at its rawest. Ignorant, uneducated people that either get NO facts before polling or simply plug into one or two biased sources and THINK they are getting the whole story.

I can say this because I have witnessed it first hand. I have had to set straight many people on the facts on both sides. I have lib friends who had no idea of Obamas past and thought Palin was an idiot by virtue of satire. BTW, anyone who gets thier political views from SNL needs slapped. As I have also had to explain to some VERY conservative friends who thought that the Iraqi war was AGAINST Iraq and we should bomb them all, instead of the liberation effort that it is. I am by far not the most educated guy here or anywhere else, but I am objective and haven't bought any snake oil in a long time. I had as much info as I could gather before going to the polls, MUCH of it from right here on the WAB. WABbers can take pat on the back as to the fact there are many varied opinions and facts found here that you don't get anywhere else as easily.

I am conservative leaning libertarian but I like most of the professed liberals here because 1. they aren't afraid to say they are a lib. 2. Most can provide thoughtful argument. And usually after some discussion we find that we are not so much different in ideals but simply the process to arrive at a solution.

Informed thinkers are found here and that's why I like it here. This video http://www.howobamagotelected.com/ is just an example of people who would benefit from some education before voting on something as important as the election of our leaders. I'm sure we can find some examples of stupid McCain supporters if we really have to rub that lotion on to feel better.:P

[Parihaka]

"Okay, subject, predicate, subject predicate - we get it, stop showing off."

:))

[Parihaka]

These are people who voted with their heart because of the hype instead of with thier head because of the facts. This is anti-intellectualism at its rawest.

Imm, liberals falling for hype? Surely not

[Blue]

Imm, liberals falling for hype? Surely not

I know, its like I'm crazy drunk talkin'

[Bigfella]

7thsfsniper

OK Folks. First I want to make clear that I did not post this to start a political argument. This IS NOT about attacking libs or Dems. BHO is pres, nuff said. My point here is that you could have taken voters on either side and most likely came up with many who couldn't have answered the simplest of questions, ie. who is Pelosi, Frank. These are people who voted with their heart because of the hype instead of with thier head because of the facts. This is anti-intellectualism at its rawest. Ignorant, uneducated people that either get NO facts before polling or simply plug into one or two biased sources and THINK they are getting the whole story.

Sniper,

I agree that it is depressing that there are people who vote without being fully informed. The sad truth is that you cannot make people care and you cannot take the emotion out of important decisions like electing a government. Taje as an example the many debates that have been raging over WAB over the past months. I would argue that the posters here bat well above the average for education, yet so many debates quickly degenerate into partisan, emotional shouting matches. This isn't anti-intellectualism, just people being people.

I can say this because I have witnessed it first hand. I have had to set straight many people on the facts on both sides. I have lib friends who had no idea of Obamas past and thought Palin was an idiot by virtue of satire. BTW, anyone who gets thier political views from SNL needs slapped. As I have also had to explain to some VERY conservative friends who thought that the Iraqi war was AGAINST Iraq and we should bomb them all, instead of the liberation effort that it is. I am by far not the most educated guy here or anywhere else, but I am objective and haven't bought any snake oil in a long time. I had as much info as I could gather before going to the polls, MUCH of it from right here on the WAB. WABbers can take pat on the back as to the fact there are many varied opinions and facts found here that you don't get anywhere else as easily.

Unfortunately there is a world of people out there for whom interest in society ends at their driveway. They are not necesarily bad or stupid. Many educated, many are professional people. Some feel they are too busy, some are completely wrapped up in their own view of the world, others genuinely don't care. I don't necessarily see this as anti-intellectual, but it can be.

I am conservative leaning libertarian but I like most of the professed liberals here because 1. they aren't afraid to say they are a lib. 2. Most can provide thoughtful argument. And usually after some discussion we find that we are not so much different in ideals but simply the process to arrive at a solution.

:)

Informed thinkers are found here and that's why I like it here. This video http://www.howobamagotelected.com/ is just an example of people who would benefit from some education before voting on something as important as the election of our leaders. I'm sure we can find some examples of stupid McCain supporters if we really have to rub that lotion on to feel better.:P

My problem with the website/poll etc. has several elements. First, it is an anti-Obama hit piece. I realize that you didn't post it in that spirit, but that is what it is. That leads me to my other issue - stuff like this is actually part of the problem. It isn't an attempt to encourage debate or enquire into an issue, it is simply an attempt to smear someone. This website & thousands like them aren't about informing people, they are about pandering to prejudice & building the walls around a particular political position just that bit higher.

I am not worried that there are people in this world who are uneducated or uninterested. Such people have always existed & will always exist. I know or am related to people who are either or both. Three of my four grandparents did not finish high school. Neither did my father. They were not ashamed of that lack of education, but neither did they attack those who had it simply because they did.

What really scares me is people who actively discourage education & enquiry; people who denigrate & dismiss educated opinion simply because it disagrees with theirs; people who keep themselves & their children in a cocoon free of any challenge to their views of the world; people who dismiss as 'elitist' people who speak well & can formlate an opinion.

This is true anti-intellectualism & it is truly dangerous because it turns education from a means to expand the mind into a simple tool of professional achievement. It is one thing to accept that everyone is of value no matter their intellect, but anti-intellectuallism raises mediocrity to a virtue, to desireability. When ordinary people do this it is sad, when people in positions of influence do this it is criminal.

I don't see this as a function of a particular type of education, but of a particular type of parent or social setting. There are plenty of kids in nice private schools or being home schooled who will reach adulthood every bit as ignorant of the wider world & its issues as some kid from the projects. The difference is that the kid with the expensive school probably has better grades & will get a better job.

I think it is incumbent on all of us to encourage informed debate & not treat it as a zero sum game.

[RadioPatrol]

My problem with the website/poll etc. has several elements. First, it is an anti-Obama hit piece. I realize that you didn't post it in that spirit, but that is what it is. That leads me to my other issue - stuff like this is actually part of the problem. It isn't an attempt to encourage debate or inquire into an issue, it is simply an attempt to smear someone.

Ok bigfella break it down .... how is it a hit piece ?

the Authors Premise is the MEDIA intentionally, Ignored and or HID Important Facts Regarding Obama and his Background / Philosophy

aka I listed to Conservative Talk Radio discussing J Wright and the Black Liberation Theology (Marxism Redux) long before it hit the MSM ...

Hangs out with 60's Radical and unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers ....

if you think this is a conservative thing why don't you peruse this:

Hillary Clinton Forum

and this:

The Daily PUMA

Made up of Hillary Supporters Mad over Obama's Selection ... and Promising to Vote McCain ( I know voting is past now ... but it made for interesting reading)

[entropy]

Ok bigfella break it down .... how is it a hit piece ?

the Authors Premise is the MEDIA intentionally, Ignored and or HID Important Facts Regarding Obama and his Background / Philosophy

aka I listed to Conservative Talk Radio discussing J Wright and the Black Liberation Theology (Marxism Redux) long before it hit the MSM ...

Hangs out with 60's Radical and unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers ....

if you think this is a conservative thing why don't you peruse this:

Hillary Clinton Forum

and this:

The Daily PUMA

Made up of Hillary Supporters Mad over Obama's Selection ... and Promising to Vote McCain ( I know voting is past now ... but it made for interesting reading)

Supporting the Black Liberation does not make someone a Marxist, especially if the person himself is black.
Hanging out with radicals does not make the person a radical. I don't know how it goes in your social networks, perhaps your friends will ditch you if they see you talking to a left-winger, but if my political doctrine was to be judged by looking at my friends, then I would be a corporatist collectivist anarcho-libertarian who is totally not interested in politics.

[Gun Grape]

There are 3 kinds of lies.

Lies, lies and statistics.
:)

Maximus,
The actual quote/phrase is "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Attributed to Disraeli but made popular in the US by Twain.