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  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    And, please let the raw meat rest for sometime, a day atleast incase of a chicken, the rigor phase needs to be over, for the meat to be tender.
    How long to keep if out of the freezer ?

    I just wait for it defrost and then cook

    It's never as good as fresh but that's the price you pay for convenience.

    Comment


    • I didn't explain, so perhaps you misunderstood. Have you ever been confused when meat at some local dhaba was tender the first time you visited, but hard and rubbery the next time you ate? It happened with me many times. Didn't research it then, all food science.

      When a chicken is slaughtered, or a goat, or any animal, the muscles are converted to meat. This is called rigor mortis, which actually is the stiffening of muscles after death and is a very important postmortem change in the process of conversion of muscle into meat.

      Remember, muscle is converted into meat after slaughter. Technical mumbo jumbo really.

      Rigor Mortis happens in 3 or 4 phases, depending upon the source you read. I'll briefly give you an overview (technical part you can google - ATP, Mg++ etc).

      #1. Death of an animal. Rigor starts.
      #2. Muscles stiffen
      #3. Rigor ends. Muscles relax.

      In case of broiler chicken, rigor starts 1-1.5 hrs after the bird is dead/slaughtered, not immediately after slaughter. In this phase the muscles contract. This is under normal room temperature. Let the meat rest for another 2 hrs at room temperature. Rigor ends. Muscles relax. Marinate, cook, eat.

      NOTE: One should not leave meat at room temperature in Indian summers. The meat will go bad. So, do not try it during summer, even in Bangalore.

      Rigor happens at the cell level, so one can have the meat cut into pieces and bring home. No worries there. But if you buy it fresh, like how it is sold in India, you bring it home, clean it, then you'd put it into the refrigerator, right? Not freezer, remember. Clean the broiler meat, and refrigerate it for at least 4 hours, the temperature inside the refrigerator (not freezer) is like 15 degrees C (less than room temperature), so it takes a little more time for rigor to end. Then you put it into the freezer.

      Putting meat in the freezer right after slaughter slows down the entire process of rigor. I have not googled it, as I didn't research it, so it needs more digging.

      Or, you clean the broiler pieces, marinate it, and keep it inside the refrigerator for like 3 hours, take it out, let it sit in room temperature for atleast 1 hour before cooking it. This is food science that graduates from culinary school know and they become great chefs, but ordinary cooks suffer with their meat quality.

      I buy 2.5 kg whole chicken, and I get 1.5 kg of meat. I bring it home, cut into pieces of my choice, clean it. Then 750 gms chicken I marinate, and keep in the refrigerator for 3 hours, then I take it out of the refrigerator and let it rest for an hour before cooking it. Rest goes in the freezer, let the rigor process be slow, I will eat it after 3 days anyway. Never had a problem with tough meat.

      Beef in US is chilled for 4 days after slaughter, before being sold. This is fresh beef I'm talking about. Aged meat gets tender on its own as the connecting tissues get weak/break. We do the same here in India with goat meat and papaya paste. Papaya has a compound called 'papain' which breaks down the connective tissues and renders the meat soft. Pineapple also does the same, but I don't like my meat to be sweet.

      In case of goat meat or lamb, ideally it should take more than a day. Nowhere it is mentioned. I am yet to mail someone from the Home Science department of a prestigious college in Southern India, but I'll let you know.

      In case of beef in western countries, they use a process of electrical stimulation to start the rigor phase after slaughter. 1 lb steak gets cooked in 15 mins? Is that even possible without understanding meat science? One reads, reads, and reads, but still one won't find a direct answer. Nowhere it is written that broiler/goat etc should be kept for 'n' number of hours after slaughter, at 'y' temperature.

      One more thing, when birds and animals are chased, and caught, and slaughtered, rigor needs a little extra time. Muscles use up the stored glycogen in their bodies. So, if you plan to slaughter a chicken, tie it by its feet and hang it upside down. Let it rest and relax. 15-20 mins would do. If you can cover its eyes, that's better. Then make a deep gash on the throat (use a precision knife), clean meat requires the maximum amount of blood drainage from the bird/animals body. Nothing to do with religious beliefs here.

      I have written so much, this is actually 2 months of research into meat quality. :D :D

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      How long to keep if out of the freezer ?

      I just wait for it defrost and then cook

      It's never as good as fresh but that's the price you pay for convenience.
      As long as it takes for the meat to come to room temperature. Ideally, if you plan to cook meat for lunch the next day -> take it out of the freezer the previous night, let it come to room temperature, marinate it and refrigerate it. DO NOT put it back into the freezer. Try it, and let me know.
      Last edited by Oracle; 10 Mar 20,, 14:04.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • The Tyranny of the Taxi Medallions

        https://priceonomics.com/post/476365...axi-medallions
        Hit the grape lethally.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
          I didn't explain, so perhaps you misunderstood. Have you ever been confused when meat at some local dhaba was tender the first time you visited, but hard and rubbery the next time you ate? It happened with me many times. Didn't research it then, all food science.

          When a chicken is slaughtered, or a goat, or any animal, the muscles are converted to meat. This is called rigor mortis, which actually is the stiffening of muscles after death and is a very important postmortem change in the process of conversion of muscle into meat.

          Remember, muscle is converted into meat after slaughter. Technical mumbo jumbo really.

          Rigor Mortis happens in 3 or 4 phases, depending upon the source you read. I'll briefly give you an overview (technical part you can google - ATP, Mg++ etc).

          #1. Death of an animal. Rigor starts.
          #2. Muscles stiffen
          #3. Rigor ends. Muscles relax.

          In case of broiler chicken, rigor starts 1-1.5 hrs after the bird is dead/slaughtered, not immediately after slaughter. In this phase the muscles contract. This is under normal room temperature. Let the meat rest for another 2 hrs at room temperature. Rigor ends. Muscles relax. Marinate, cook, eat.

          NOTE: One should not leave meat at room temperature in Indian summers. The meat will go bad. So, do not try it during summer, even in Bangalore.

          Rigor happens at the cell level, so one can have the meat cut into pieces and bring home. No worries there. But if you buy it fresh, like how it is sold in India, you bring it home, clean it, then you'd put it into the refrigerator, right? Not freezer, remember. Clean the broiler meat, and refrigerate it for at least 4 hours, the temperature inside the refrigerator (not freezer) is like 15 degrees C (less than room temperature), so it takes a little more time for rigor to end. Then you put it into the freezer.

          Putting meat in the freezer right after slaughter slows down the entire process of rigor. I have not googled it, as I didn't research it, so it needs more digging.

          Or, you clean the broiler pieces, marinate it, and keep it inside the refrigerator for like 3 hours, take it out, let it sit in room temperature for atleast 1 hour before cooking it. This is food science that graduates from culinary school know and they become great chefs, but ordinary cooks suffer with their meat quality.

          I buy 2.5 kg whole chicken, and I get 1.5 kg of meat. I bring it home, cut into pieces of my choice, clean it. Then 750 gms chicken I marinate, and keep in the refrigerator for 3 hours, then I take it out of the refrigerator and let it rest for an hour before cooking it. Rest goes in the freezer, let the rigor process be slow, I will eat it after 3 days anyway. Never had a problem with tough meat.

          Beef in US is chilled for 4 days after slaughter, before being sold. This is fresh beef I'm talking about. Aged meat gets tender on its own as the connecting tissues get weak/break. We do the same here in India with goat meat and papaya paste. Papaya has a compound called 'papain' which breaks down the connective tissues and renders the meat soft. Pineapple also does the same, but I don't like my meat to be sweet.

          In case of goat meat or lamb, ideally it should take more than a day. Nowhere it is mentioned. I am yet to mail someone from the Home Science department of a prestigious college in Southern India, but I'll let you know.

          In case of beef in western countries, they use a process of electrical stimulation to start the rigor phase after slaughter. 1 lb steak gets cooked in 15 mins? Is that even possible without understanding meat science? One reads, reads, and reads, but still one won't find a direct answer. Nowhere it is written that broiler/goat etc should be kept for 'n' number of hours after slaughter, at 'y' temperature.

          One more thing, when birds and animals are chased, and caught, and slaughtered, rigor needs a little extra time. Muscles use up the stored glycogen in their bodies. So, if you plan to slaughter a chicken, tie it by its feet and hang it upside down. Let it rest and relax. 15-20 mins would do. If you can cover its eyes, that's better. Then make a deep gash on the throat (use a precision knife), clean meat requires the maximum amount of blood drainage from the bird/animals body. Nothing to do with religious beliefs here.

          I have written so much, this is actually 2 months of research into meat quality. :D :D



          As long as it takes for the meat to come to room temperature. Ideally, if you plan to cook meat for lunch the next day -> take it out of the freezer the previous night, let it come to room temperature, marinate it and refrigerate it. DO NOT put it back into the freezer. Try it, and let me know.
          Another point: In every Indian food channel, by every culinary great, the advice is to marinate your meat for atleast 1 hour, before cooking it. It makes the meat tender, they emphasis.

          If marination is done before/when rigor starts and cooked before rigor is complete, the meat is bound to be tough. This is proven by science. Spices cannot penetrate a contracted muscle, this I believe is common sense, unless raw papaya paste is used, and that too needs some good amount of time.

          So, let's calculate time taken for meat bought till eaten (fresh broiler chicken). A single man vs single woman perspective. :D

          Meat bought: Butcher slaughters the bird, skins it, cuts it, packs it.

          Men: We then wander in the market for some time buying veggies etc, as also raw ginger/garlic, onions etc. Then we go home. So, effective time taken since bird slaughtered and meat at kitchen is 1 hour already.

          Women: Checking whatsapp/FB/Insta while butcher is doing his job. Checks lipstick and pays money. Goes out and buys some veggies. Straight to her car/scooty, checks lipstick and hair. Starts engine. Remembers she forgot to buying ginger-garlic paste, so back again to the meat shop. Pays money, forgets collecting change. Takes change, when the shop owner shouts. Pets a stray dog near the meat shop, and wonders why they're homeless, but will never adopt one. Back to the car/scooty. Starts engine. Checks mobile, lipstick. Now confused if meat masala is there back home. Back to square one, buys meat masala, checks mobile one last time before starting engine. Effective time - 2.5 hours.

          Cleaning meat:

          Men: Undress, open the beer can, call up friends to come over and have lunch, clean meat, drain off excess water, and marinate it. Another 1 hour. Effective time till now: 2 hrs.

          Women: Keeps the meat in the kitchen, checks mobile. Random texts, some likes even if she doesn't want to. Likes brings in more likes. A selfie with the meat bag zips into instagram announcing to the whole world she's cooking today. Checks herself infront of the mirror. Undresses. Remembers she's hungry. Searches for noodles, and gives out a sigh of relief upon finding it. Cooks noodles, pic goes straight into Instagram, eats noodles. More mobile time. Some calls. Effective time till now - 3.5 hrs. Cleans the chicken, marinates it. Effective time till now - 4 hours.

          The marinade rests for 1 hour for both gender, why? Mum said so. Mums are never wrong.

          Cooking: Effective time till now: Men -> 3 hours; Women -> 5 hours.

          Ofcourse meat cooked by women is tender. They take their time, not knowing that meat science behind their fiddling nature is doing wonders to the meat. 3 hrs ain't bad too for men.

          Conclusion, marinating meat for 1 hour, just, after slaughtering the chicken, and then cooking it will not render it smooth. I know it, I cooked chicken this way a week before my Allahabad trip for my sis, brother-in-law and 2 nephews (they came uninformed), and I cringed with their negative comments. Did not know the science behind then. Now I know.

          Oh I forgot, Serving:

          Men: Cooking done, sprinkles some garam masala powder.
          Women: Cooking done, can't find garam masala powder. Cuts some fresh cilantro instead, and sprinkles it over the curry. Pic goes straight into instagram. Names it -> Cilantro chicken.
          Last edited by Oracle; 11 Mar 20,, 16:13.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

          Comment


          • You forgot a few things.

            Men/Women: Whomever is not cooking is driving to ballet/Tae Kwon Do/volleyball/hockey to pick up kid.
            Men/Women: Your choice: clean up dishes or clean up kid.
            Chimo

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
              You forgot a few things.

              Men/Women: Whomever is not cooking is driving to ballet/Tae Kwon Do/volleyball/hockey to pick up kid.
              Men/Women: Your choice: clean up dishes or clean up kid.
              Hahaha. Yes. Applies to people in bondage. I specifically was talking about singles.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • You said a lot which i will reply to later. Thanks. Just one thing...

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Clean the broiler meat, and refrigerate it for at least 4 hours, the temperature inside the refrigerator (not freezer) is like 15 degrees C (less than room temperature), so it takes a little more time for rigor to end. Then you put it into the freezer.
                Max temperature fridge should be is not above 4 degrees C if you want to be food safe. FDA rules quite strict on this. Given we live in the tropics (I do at least if not you) we need to be following them more rigourously.

                Took me a long time to figure this out as i did not have a problem with my previous fridge which averaged ten degrees C

                Except there was this problem with milk. So i get packets and boil them. This milk is half the cost of what you get in tetra paks.

                If i left the milk boiling later in the day, invariably the milk would curdle in the pan. We'd blame the milk guy for giving us old milk. But the instructions on the packet clearly said do not store in temperatures above 4 degrees. Well the last fridge was crammed solid which meant it never got below 10 degrees so any milk stored in there was not going to stay fresh longer than a day.

                I got to learn more about this when i got some fridge thermometers. I needed to get a new fridge and the ones i was looking at had these dials with numbers on them so it was not obvious to tell what the temperature set actually is. I ended up getting one with a digital thermostat and the thermometers show how the temp varies over the day. Its a frost free so goes through two defrosts a day. This is why they say not to store medicine as anything that is sensitive to temperature will likely spoil. That requires some other kind of fridge.

                Fridge temperature set correlates closely with the what the thermometers say. 4 C in the fridge and -18 C in the freezer
                Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Mar 20,, 20:58.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  You said a lot which i will reply to later. Thanks. Just one thing...


                  Max temperature fridge should be is not above 4 degrees C if you want to be food safe. FDA rules quite strict on this. Given we live in the tropics (I do at least if not you) we need to be following them more rigourously.

                  Took me a long time to figure this out as i did not have a problem with my previous fridge which averaged ten degrees C

                  Except there was this problem with milk. So i get packets and boil them. This milk is half the cost of what you get in tetra paks.

                  If i left the milk boiling later in the day, invariably the milk would curdle in the pan. We'd blame the milk guy for giving us old milk. But the instructions on the packet clearly said do not store in temperatures above 4 degrees. Well the last fridge was crammed solid which meant it never got below 10 degrees so any milk stored in there was not going to stay fresh longer than a day.

                  I got to learn more about this when i got some fridge thermometers. I needed to get a new fridge and the ones i was looking at had these dials with numbers on them so it was not obvious to tell what the temperature set actually is. I ended up getting one with a digital thermostat and the thermometers show how the temp varies over the day. Its a frost free so goes through two defrosts a day. This is why they say not to store medicine as anything that is sensitive to temperature will likely spoil. That requires some other kind of fridge.
                  I understand what you said, and I faced this issues too. Look, fridge sold in India (price range of 10K to 25K), has 2 chambers, so to speak. The freezer, which is the upper portion of the fridge, and the remaining sections, which occupy 85% of the remaining space inside the fridge.

                  Freezer is where, temperature is below 4 degrees centigrade. I store sausages, raw meat etc there.

                  Remaining section it hovers from around 10 degrees to 15 degrees. Not a problem, as we store only vegetables in this section, or cooked food.

                  If you store milk in the freezer, it will convert into ice, milk-ice of whatever you want to call it. So, we have to store milk in the remaining section where we keep our veggies, cooked food, bread, jam, ketchup, butter etc. I have stopped buying local milk here (highly adulterated), I buy Amul's tetra packs. In Bangalore, you can buy Nandini milk and boil it in the evening, provided you buy it at 5AM in the morning, and keep it in the fridge immediately. 5AM, as you get the daily fresh ones, later the shopkeeper will mix these packs with old ones. Even then during summer, milk might go bad.

                  And btw, Bangalore is much much cooler than where I live presently. Only 2 warm months in Bangalore, April/May, and say a little bit of June. That's it. Here 9 months are treacherously warm.

                  US FDA rules are strict, but it doesn't apply to India. Meat/Fish is best kept at -18 degrees centigrade, which retains the flavour, texture. I have had fish/meat which came from those warehouses, and when cooked, the taste was very good.

                  The other thing about veggies is that, we can't store all veggies in cold storages, even though they are perishables. Only some veggies we can (potatoes/onions). What is needed is a warehouse, which is automated, and filled with nitrogen. This is how Apples are stored in the UK, taken out and supplied when supermarkets demand it.

                  In India, everything is jugaad. Nothing works as stated. We have to find the best workaround by hit and trial.

                  Fridge temperature set correlates closely with the what the thermometers say. 4 C in the fridge and -18 C in the freezer
                  Did you test this? 4 degree C/ -18 degree C? I bet, if you take 24 test cases for a period of 24 hrs, you will get different results. In the freezer, temperature can get to -2 or even -4, no way it will get to -18. And the remaining section, I don't think it will be less that 10 degree C.

                  For a new fridge, the temperature of the remaining section can be lower than 10 degree C, but freezer will not be -18 degree C.
                  Last edited by Oracle; 12 Mar 20,, 05:56.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Someone said

                    Let me use that brain of yours to deepen my pockets and let me use that brain of yours for free.
                    Hit the grape lethally.

                    Comment


                    • Someone said

                      Family people matter.
                      Hit the grape lethally.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                        I understand what you said, and I faced this issues too. Look, fridge sold in India (price range of 10K to 25K), has 2 chambers, so to speak. The freezer, which is the upper portion of the fridge, and the remaining sections, which occupy 85% of the remaining space inside the fridge.

                        Freezer is where, temperature is below 4 degrees centigrade. I store sausages, raw meat etc there.
                        Zero is freezing point. So freezer should be under 0, between -5 to -10 if not frost free, colder if frost free

                        Fridge should be between 0 and 4 degrees C, preferably most of it. Bottom shelf a couple of degrees higher.

                        Cheaper fridges don't have fans to circulate air, with these you get more variations between the top and bottom shelves. Single door fridges do not regulate as well as twin door which keeps freezer closed when fridge is opened.

                        Max loading is 70%, that means remaining 30% of the space in the fridge should be free. We blew past that limit with the older fridge easily. I didn't even know you are not supposed to load more than 70% in the fridge.

                        Remaining section it hovers from around 10 degrees to 15 degrees. Not a problem, as we store only vegetables in this section, or cooked food.
                        Depends how fast you clear it out. Some people like to veggie shop almost every day so fine. I do my food shopping once a week. So stuff remains there for longer. Vegetables keep for close to two weeks.

                        I've stored cooked food as long as a week after it was made. A week is the max.

                        It would not be safe to do that with a fridge that hovered between 10 to 15. Three days max if that.


                        If you store milk in the freezer, it will convert into ice, milk-ice of whatever you want to call it. So, we have to store milk in the remaining section where we keep our veggies, cooked food, bread, jam, ketchup, butter etc. I have stopped buying local milk here (highly adulterated), I buy Amul's tetra packs. In Bangalore, you can buy Nandini milk and boil it in the evening, provided you buy it at 5AM in the morning, and keep it in the fridge immediately. 5AM, as you get the daily fresh ones, later the shopkeeper will mix these packs with old ones. Even then during summer, milk might go bad.
                        Nandini guy drops it over early morning, it gets put in the fridge for later. With the new fridge i can boil the milk even past midnight and it won't curdle. Because the temp is under 4 degrees C. Close to a year since i got the new fridge and the milk has not curdled once. The milk booth guy never gave us old milk, he delivered whatever he received at 6AM.

                        Milk adulteration test here. Milk powder is about all they put in it, sometimes.

                        It does not become yellow when warmed. I think it will fail the starch test as they add milk powder. Tastes fine to me. 2% is what i get .

                        The other thing about veggies is that, we can't store all veggies in cold storages, even though they are perishables. Only some veggies we can (potatoes/onions). What is needed is a warehouse, which is automated, and filled with nitrogen. This is how Apples are stored in the UK, taken out and supplied when supermarkets demand it.
                        Cold storage means freezer. I am referring to fridge only. Storing veggies in the fridge, not freezer.

                        Actually quite a few vegetables can be stored close to zero. No freezing occurs here. Check out pg.11 from this document from Bluapple.

                        Only exceptions are beans, cucumbers, brinjals, melons, pumpkins & squash. Would have to wrap these in paper bags to insulate them.

                        Potates & Tomatoes are stored at room temperature.

                        Are you sure they are storing those apples in nitrogen ? If you read that document you will learn that apples give out ethylene and are also highly susceptible to it. Therefore to preserve apples longer you need ethylene absorbers. This the produce industry has been doing for decades to keep produce fresh for transport over long distances.

                        Did you test this? 4 degree C/ -18 degree C? I bet, if you take 24 test cases for a period of 24 hrs, you will get different results. In the freezer, temperature can get to -2 or even -4, no way it will get to -18. And the remaining section, I don't think it will be less that 10 degree C.

                        For a new fridge, the temperature of the remaining section can be lower than 10 degree C, but freezer will not be -18 degree C.
                        I tested with the old fridge which was not frost free, depending on the thermostat it would hover between -5 and -10. Colder required the compressor to work harder.

                        Around the fridge section coldest it got on the top shelf was 9 and in the door shelves around 14. The gaskets were hard so i imagine sealing wasn't very good. The kelvinator was nearly 50 years old before i replaced it. Fridge door gaskets are the first thing to check for in a fridge. Should be soft and not hard. We could not get replacements with the kelvinator.

                        The product i linked is wireless with a remote display so you see what the temperature is in real time, any time. Without opening the door. It also shows highs and lows so i can tell how cold or warm it got over a day. What the range was. The temperature measured is dry air temperature. Wet bulb is more accurate but there is no wireless product that does it. You need to open the door and manually check reading of whatever liquid thermometer you have placed inside..

                        With the new LG the shelves are between 2 to 4 degrees C, vegetable compartment at the bottom is 6 - 7 and doors average around 5 - 6. This fridge is twice the volume of the previous Kelvinator and consumes half the power per day. I measured the power consumed as well and found that the real world consumption was 50% over what the 4 star BEE sticker said. That is if total units as stated on the sticker for a year is divided into daily. The power consumption figures stated are wildly optimistic. I would not consider them accurate for power consumption unless you never open the door. Measure with a power meter is the best way.

                        New one gets to -18. Coldest it can get is -23. Thermometer tallies well with the set temperature on the fridge. It will vary during the defrost cycle as i said but it will return to cold and hold at the designated temperature. I have clear ice stored in the fridge. Once the power went out for eight hours and I thought all the ice would be gone. No, it had only reduced in size a little I was amazed to find. The insulation is decent even though the thermometer said 5 degrees above zero for the freezer by the time the power resumed.

                        My point was to do with the fridge section. The freezer being under zero is ok. The colder the freezer is the longer you can store food. That is the only benefit with colder temperatures. So chicken stored at -18 will last 6 months as opposed to one month in a non frost free fridge.

                        One thing i've learnt is fridges are classified according to climate zones. Fridges you buy in India are designed for the tropics. This means the freezer space in terms of depth is smaller than the ones sold in the west which are for temperate zone. The depth of a freezer here is half the depth of the external dimensions which is galling but that's what it takes to maintain temperatures to freezer spec when external temps is close to 35 degrees C if not warmer.

                        Meaning if you want a bigger freezer you have to get a bigger fridge.

                        US FDA rules are strict, but it doesn't apply to India. Meat/Fish is best kept at -18 degrees centigrade, which retains the flavour, texture. I have had fish/meat which came from those warehouses, and when cooked, the taste was very good.
                        How cold the freezer gets determines how long you can keep in the freezer. I'm referring only to the fridge part. FDA food safety rules apply wherever you are and even more applicable in hotter temperatures. Not legally enforceable outside the US ofc but good guidelines to follow.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20,, 21:05.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          Zero is freezing point. So freezer should be under 0, between -5 to -10 if not frost free, colder if frost free

                          Fridge should be between 0 and 4 degrees C, preferably most of it. Bottom shelf a couple of degrees higher.

                          Cheaper fridges don't have fans to circulate air, with these you get more variations between the top and bottom shelves. Single door fridges do not regulate as well as twin door which keeps freezer closed when fridge is opened.

                          Max loading is 70%, that means remaining 30% of the space in the fridge should be free. We blew past that limit with the older fridge easily. I didn't even know you are not supposed to load more than 70% in the fridge.


                          Depends how fast you clear it out. Some people like to veggie shop almost every day so fine. I do my food shopping once a week. So stuff remains there for longer. Vegetables keep for close to two weeks.

                          I've stored cooked food as long as a week after it was made. A week is the max.

                          It would not be safe to do that with a fridge that hovered between 10 to 15. Three days max if that.



                          Nandini guy drops it over early morning, it gets put in the fridge for later. With the new fridge i can boil the milk even past midnight and it won't curdle. Because the temp is under 4 degrees C. Close to a year since i got the new fridge and the milk has not curdled once. The milk booth guy never gave us old milk, he delivered whatever he received at 6AM.

                          Milk adulteration test here. Milk powder is about all they put in it, sometimes.

                          It does not become yellow when warmed. I think it will fail the starch test as they add milk powder. Tastes fine to me. 2% is what i get .


                          Cold storage means freezer. I am referring to fridge only. Storing veggies in the fridge, not freezer.

                          Actually quite a few vegetables can be stored close to zero. No freezing occurs here. Check out pg.11 from this document from Bluapple.

                          Only exceptions are beans, cucumbers, brinjals, melons, pumpkins & squash. Would have to wrap these in paper bags to insulate them.

                          Potates & Tomatoes are stored at room temperature.

                          Are you sure they are storing those apples in nitrogen ? If you read that document you will learn that apples give out ethylene and are also highly susceptible to it. Therefore to preserve apples longer you need ethylene absorbers. This the produce industry has been doing for decades to keep produce fresh for transport over long distances.


                          I tested with the old fridge which was not frost free, depending on the thermostat it would hover between -5 and -10. Colder required the compressor to work harder.

                          Around the fridge section coldest it got on the top shelf was 9 and in the door shelves around 14. The gaskets were hard so i imagine sealing wasn't very good. The kelvinator was nearly 50 years old before i replaced it. Fridge door gaskets are the first thing to check for in a fridge. Should be soft and not hard. We could not get replacements with the kelvinator.

                          The product i linked is wireless with a remote display so you see what the temperature is in real time, any time. Without opening the door. It also shows highs and lows so i can tell how cold or warm it got over a day. What the range was. The temperature measured is dry air temperature. Wet bulb is more accurate but there is no wireless product that does it. You need to open the door and manually check reading of whatever liquid thermometer you have placed inside..

                          With the new LG the shelves are between 2 to 4 degrees C, vegetable compartment at the bottom is 6 - 7 and doors average around 5 - 6. This fridge is twice the volume of the previous Kelvinator and consumes half the power per day. I measured the power consumed as well and found that the real world consumption was 50% over what the 4 star BEE sticker said. That is if total units as stated on the sticker for a year is divided into daily. The power consumption figures stated are wildly optimistic. I would not consider them accurate for power consumption unless you never open the door. Measure with a power meter is the best way.

                          New one gets to -18. Coldest it can get is -23. Thermometer tallies well with the set temperature on the fridge. It will vary during the defrost cycle as i said but it will return to cold and hold at the designated temperature. I have clear ice stored in the fridge. Once the power went out for eight hours and I thought all the ice would be gone. No, it had only reduced in size a little I was amazed to find. The insulation is decent even though the thermometer said 5 degrees above zero for the freezer by the time the power resumed.

                          My point was to do with the fridge section. The freezer being under zero is ok. The colder the freezer is the longer you can store food. That is the only benefit with colder temperatures. So chicken stored at -18 will last 6 months as opposed to one month in a non frost free fridge.

                          One thing i've learnt is fridges are classified according to climate zones. Fridges you buy in India are designed for the tropics. This means the freezer space in terms of depth is smaller than the ones sold in the west which are for temperate zone. The depth of a freezer here is half the depth of the external dimensions which is galling but that's what it takes to maintain temperatures to freezer spec when external temps is close to 35 degrees C if not warmer.

                          Meaning if you want a bigger freezer you have to get a bigger fridge.


                          How cold the freezer gets determines how long you can keep in the freezer. I'm referring only to the fridge part. FDA food safety rules apply wherever you are and even more applicable in hotter temperatures. Not legally enforceable outside the US ofc but good guidelines to follow.
                          Not nitrogen. But in a warehouse filled with only nitrogen gas, or maybe NO2. Can't remember exactly, it was long back. Watched a documentary actually.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                          • My mom is very happy as well as excited. She learnt how to unlock her smartphone with her 'face lock', switch ON 'mobile data', open 'YouTube', and listen to crap music. It took her only 3 months approximately. She still doesn't know how to use the TV remote. :D
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                            • The phone company just left. Had to replace the guts in the TNI (Telephone Network Interface) box on the side of the house and run a new DSL line.

                              Corroded due to salt water intrusion during the hurricane. I have blazing internet connectivity now, vice the router dropping the signal 6-10 times a day.

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                              • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                                I have blazing internet connectivity now, vice the router dropping the signal 6-10 times a day.
                                The two are inversely related, faster means more errors requires good cable and shorter distance to the exchange.

                                Maybe if you lower your speed settings you will get a more stable signal ?

                                https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18...ode-ADSL2-Mode

                                I used to stick the modem on g.dmt and the connection would be more stable.

                                I found the web worked fine at a slower speed

                                This is older tech but the idea still applies.

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