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  • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
    And all this in leading science journals for years and the media forgot to do their jobs. All published before the pandemic so not tainted by US politics.
    Here's an even older one that documents lab escapes from around the world

    Threatened pandemics and laboratory escapes: Self-fulfilling prophecies | Bulletin | March 31 2014

    The longer version is here


    Originally posted by 667medic View Post
    Escape of pathogens from BSL3 facility, has happened before even in Singapore of all the places. I remember this quite well as I was a student and knew several researchers working on SARS.
    ^ See above

    Comment


    • Sharri's expose from last Sunday.



      Conflicts of interests galore. Catches Dazak out a few times.

      DNI said May 2020 there is a consensus it was natural. There was no consensus. If you silence the dissenters then there is a consensus.

      The one thing she said concerned me. The org Drastic had done more than western intel orgs to bring the lab leak theory to light.

      This means there is lot that has not been declassified yet. And was sat on until others showed otherwise

      Why was that database taken offline as early as Sept 2019. They say it was being hacked, that means some one or some org was trying to download it.

      It was just an excel spreadsheet so should not have been too difficult to pilfer and a copy of it exists some where already.

      The year is 2021 and Americans have to get their local news from Australia
      Top comment !
      Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jun 21,, 22:37.

      Comment


      • Dazak is a disgrace. It's that simple. And more good work by Drastic.

        But I disagree with the central premise in the piece. We have had a good idea that the lab has many live animal species based on records the CCP failed to scrub on live animal case purchases for the lab, more Drastic work I think. But you don't need live bats in the lab, just live virus. However the general public love the optics of seeing live bats being worked on, which is perfectly normal scientific work. I understand however that it exposes Dazak, the lab and the CCP as liars. However, I dont think it would have moved western "consensus" an inch last year.

        I do agree on conflicts of interest. Even with fauci, and it doesnt have to be malicious. Just that people who have conflicts of interest struggle to see the facts clearly, as they hope for the more favourable scenario is the true one, or allow themselves to get swept along in the broader narrative instead of being a powerful, honest, brave voice. The media's job is in part to assess these incentive factors and achieve balance reporting but they took a hard pass on doing their jobs properly. Facebook and Zuckerberg also got sucked into censoring the discussion, abdicating any future role in policing social discourse as far I am concerned, briefly an attractive idea in this new era of disinformation.

        Comment


        • From a month ago, about the lab

          The Origin Of Our Misery: The Mystery Of Wuhan’S Lab P4 | Sunday Guardian | May 15 2021

          About that PLA General. Bat woman said it was a civilian affair. Why does a PLA general take over after the pandemic breaks out.

          See the timing. Jan 23 Wuhan locked down. Jan 26 the General takes over. She does not take over Wuhan CDC but WIV

          If the military shows up it means something went wrong or they suspected it. But China maintains no lab leak then what is this General doing there.

          An issue which needs to be immediately enquired is the role of an enigmatic personage: Chen Wei, a fifty-three-year-old PLA major general and a leading epidemiologist at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, who was said to have developed the world’s first gene-based vaccine on ebola in 2014. She was sent to take over the Wuhan Institute of Virology on January 26, 2020, immediately after Beijing admitted the existence of the virus.

          The Chinese press reported, “After arriving in Wuhan, Chen’s team started building a portable testing lab, which was in operation on January 30.” The State-run CCTV noted that Chen and her colleagues worked in shifts around the clock to develop a vaccine for Covid-19. The Global Times wrote, “People familiar with Chen Wei, all know one thing very well — she is fast. Chen walks fast, speaks fast, and works at a fast pace. Chen is now working to speed up the development of the vaccine of Covid-19 in China.”

          But there is more to Gen Chen. Two months later, in March 2020, the Chinese media announced, “A Chinese doctor has stunned people around the world by injecting an untested vaccine for the coronavirus.” A commentator added, “Scientists in the country have been busily trying to find a way to beat Covid-19, however vaccines can usually take many months to go through testing and animal trials.

          Speaking to China’s state-run TV network, Chen said, “We are doing all we can to put the recombinant vaccine that we are developing into clinical application. We must strive to bring the vaccine we are working on to clinical trial and application, providing strong technical support for winning this battle.”

          This raises serious questions:

          why did the Chinese Army need to take over the P4 lab?
          How did Chen manage to produce a vaccine less than two months after the virus was officially found?
          Did she know beforehand about the virus?
          The French connection. Another party that needs to speak up.

          One has to know that the P4 Institute of Virology in Wuhan is a high-tech facility partially funded and built by France. China had then a strong lobby in Paris led by former French Prime Ministers. When he had launched the research facilities in February 2017, Bernard Cazeneuve, the then French Prime Minister had declared, “France is proud and happy to have contributed to the construction of the first P4 high biosafety laboratory in China. …This cutting-edge tool constitutes a central element in the achievement of the 2004 intergovernmental agreement on Franco-Chinese cooperation in the prevention and fight against emerging infectious diseases.”

          According to China.org.cn, “In January 2018, on the occasion of the state visit of French President Emmanuel Macron to China, the heads of state of the two countries signed agreements on bilateral cooperation and issued a joint statement stating: ‘China and France will conduct joint cutting-edge research on infectious and emerging diseases, relying on the P4 laboratory in Wuhan’. The medical and health field constitutes a very important part of the bilateral cooperation between the two countries.”

          France then trusted China. But soon after, the French disappeared from the scene. The 50 researchers supposed to work on the project never reached Wuhan. Why was nothing made public?

          Was the PLA behind this? Could Gen Chen have used the P4 lab as a military facility in contradiction with the civilian agreement with France?

          There are many questions that the unprofessional WHO team forgot to ask.

          Xi Jinping had given the PLA’s medical teams the responsibility to win the ‘War’. When on March 10, 2020, Xi visited Wuhan to announce ‘victory’, the Chinese president took the opportunity to reaffirm the PLA’s leading role in fighting the virus.

          Many more questions need to be asked today, especially after the second deadly wave in India.

          Why was the P4 lab, a civilian collaboration between France and China, handed over to the PLA, with Paris remaining silent?
          Was Gen Chen sent to clean up all the compromising evidence in January 2020?
          Were the French asked to leave Wuhan or did they leave on their own?

          Macron’s government recently donated generously for India’s medical equipment needs, including a large number of high capacity oxygen generators. This was appreciated a lot.

          But he would now do a great service to humanity if he would tell the world about the cause of the end of the Sino-French collaboration in Wuhan and what happened in the P4 Lab between the beginning of 2018 and the end of 2019. L’Affaire Wuhan should not be closed.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jun 21,, 23:29.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
            That said, wet markets with all these wild animals are actually a terrible idea.
            Brett Weinstein agrees but also said working with bats is unlikely to get people infected.

            So you see the video thumbnail of a bat clinging off the researchers hat. He's not worried about getting infected. He's not wearing PPE. A mask yes but not those white suits.

            Leading me to think eating bats won't get you infected or handling them either. There are no clusters in the region these bats come from.

            Then why are some of them wearing full PPE in the caves ?

            There was the case of some miners getting some mysterious pneumonia of which 3 out of 6 died back in 2013
            Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jun 21,, 23:44.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              From a month ago, about the lab

              The Origin Of Our Misery: The Mystery Of Wuhan’S Lab P4 | Sunday Guardian | May 15 2021

              About that PLA General. Bat woman said it was a civilian affair. Why does a PLA general take over after the pandemic breaks out.

              See the timing. Jan 23 Wuhan locked down. Jan 26 the General takes over. She does not take over Wuhan CDC but WIV

              If the military shows up it means something went wrong or they suspected it. But China maintains no lab leak then what is this General doing there.

              I think the PLA took over because the CCP didnt think the Chinese CDC could be trusted regarding leaks (forgive the pun) to the USA CDC for which they have close ties. I agree with your interpretation however others would say the CCP are by nature secretive and controlling and would have preferred the PLA even in the event of a natural spillover, not least to crack down on the civilian population during a hard lockdown, and I reckon real hard, no soft western version. Not only did they put a general in charge, they kept the chinese CDC completely in the dark for an extended time.

              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              F


              The French connection. Another party that needs to speak up.
              I read somewhere but cant remember source that the french did a poor job with the lab design and there were major problems in construction. Not exactly incentivsed to rush forward with all available information is my guess. Whats more if the french got fucked in the deal those that got screwed may not like to revisit the naive venture, who knows...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                Brett Weinstein agrees but also said working with bats is unlikely to get people infected.

                So you see the video thumbnail of a bat clinging off the researchers hat. He's not worried about getting infected. He's not wearing PPE. A mask yes but not those white suits.

                Leading me to think eating bats won't get you infected or handling them either. There are no clusters in the region these bats come from.

                Then why are some of them wearing full PPE in the caves ?

                There was the case of some miners getting some mysterious pneumonia of which 3 out of 6 died back in 2013
                The miners got exposed to high viral load in a contained area with many bats, as they they were cleaning the walls, so may have contacted it by pushing live virus into the air around them through distubance, it wasnt even a virus that readily jumps into humans but the context was very specific.

                Workers should be suited for live wild animal sampling for obvious reasons.

                I dont know regarding the lab, perhaps the bats where known to be virally uninfected and safe.

                You could get a direct jump but these things often come through intermediate hosts. You can get these species brought togther at live animal markets/dead meat markets.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  From a month ago, about the lab

                  The Origin Of Our Misery: The Mystery Of Wuhan’S Lab P4 | Sunday Guardian | May 15 2021

                  About that PLA General. Bat woman said it was a civilian affair. Why does a PLA general take over after the pandemic breaks out.

                  See the timing. Jan 23 Wuhan locked down. Jan 26 the General takes over. She does not take over Wuhan CDC but WIV

                  If the military shows up it means something went wrong or they suspected it. But China maintains no lab leak then what is this General doing there.
                  What? She was heading a DART (Disaster Area Relief Team). DART is always military and that includes India. We're the ones with readied resources, including Field Hospitals to be deployed on a moment's notice. There is ZERO things wrong with this. It would be more strange if you put a Head of Surgery in charge of DART.

                  You're looking for Mae Wests on the Ocean Floor.
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 20 Jun 21,, 01:29.
                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    What? She was heading a DART (Disaster Area Relief Team). DART is always military and that includes India. We're the ones with readied resources, including Field Hospitals to be deployed on a moment's notice. There is ZERO things wrong with this.
                    Field hospitals to ease crowding, helping enforce the lockdown is fine. Normal.

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    It would be more strange if you put a Head of Surgery in charge of DART.
                    Why replace the existing head ?

                    They ran the place before. How did they suddenly become unsuitable.

                    I didn't hear of military officers taking over hospitals or other orgs in Wuhan.

                    Fishy unless a better explanation is given. And we've got very little to date thanks to the useless WHO team that went over.

                    It's stunning how unprofessional they were.

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    You're looking for Mae Wests on the Ocean Floor.
                    It's people like that aka drastic that got things moving from the previous understanding.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                      I think the PLA took over because the CCP didnt think the Chinese CDC could be trusted regarding leaks (forgive the pun) to the USA CDC for which they have close ties.
                      Right, control the flow of information out of WIV. Why would they need to do that. Keep prying eyes out.

                      Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                      I agree with your interpretation however others would say the CCP are by nature secretive and controlling and would have preferred the PLA even in the event of a natural spillover, not least to crack down on the civilian population during a hard lockdown, and I reckon real hard, no soft western version. Not only did they put a general in charge, they kept the chinese CDC completely in the dark for an extended time.
                      Military being called in times of a disaster isn't unusual. I lack the context of where they were deployed but some one taking over the lab does beg the question.

                      Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                      I read somewhere but cant remember source that the french did a poor job with the lab design and there were major problems in construction.
                      Ah, because the clip Sharri showed said there were problems during the construction phase and it was attributed to "cultural differences".

                      Doubt the French would have done a poor job. They got called in with the expectation they would do a very good one.

                      Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                      Not exactly incentivsed to rush forward with all available information is my guess. Whats more if the french got fucked in the deal those that got screwed may not like to revisit the naive venture, who knows...
                      There was a statement from some one who formerly worked there.

                      ‘No chance': Former Wuhan-based French official dismisses Covid lab leak theory | RFI | Jun 12 2021

                      He signed off with everything in order.

                      This person has not been on site since 2017 though.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Why replace the existing head ?
                        Read what MGen Chen did. She deployed portable labs. WIV is about to be overruned with samples. WangYanji does not have the experience to control the influx of data.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        It's people like that aka drastic that got things moving from the previous understanding.
                        Also the source of consipiracy nonsense.

                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Read what MGen Chen did. She deployed portable labs. WIV is about to be overruned with samples. WangYanji does not have the experience to control the influx of data.
                          Very good, so the General put in place a testing system.

                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Also the source of consipiracy nonsense.
                          Until the natural theory can produce evidence worth a damn alternative ideas will develop.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            The miners got exposed to high viral load in a contained area with many bats, as they they were cleaning the walls, so may have contacted it by pushing live virus into the air around them through distubance, it wasnt even a virus that readily jumps into humans but the context was very specific.
                            That does not make sense if its established you can't catch anything directly from bats.

                            High or low viral load makes no difference.

                            Nobody seems to be able to explain how those miners got sick and 3 out of 6 died as a result.

                            I'm sure miners get sick for all sorts of reasons given their working conditions but this case seems to have got peoples attention.

                            The person who found this case was from Pune of the drastic team. She's given interviews to local tv stations.

                            Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            Workers should be suited for live wild animal sampling for obvious reasons.
                            Only for hygiene then.

                            Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            You could get a direct jump but these things often come through intermediate hosts.
                            This is the thing. Our understanding of coronaviruses requires an intermediate host to then jump on to infect humans.

                            It's not been shown that this virus directly jumped to humans yet.

                            Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            You can get these species brought togther at live animal markets/dead meat markets.
                            This does not hold if we've established the wet market played no role.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Jun 21,, 14:22.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              No. The theory is that we are the intermediate host. The first infection was non-lethal, maybe didn't even get the infected sick, much like bubonic plague and ticks. Through subsquent variants, it's contagious abilities increased and at some point, got people sick. COVID-19 has been observed to infect cats and dogs without affecting them.

                              Think about it. No one got sick. No one went to see the doc but people carry the bug without knowing it ... until people did get sick.
                              This implies a direct infection. No evidence of that exists yet.

                              Another way of putting it is people were asymptomatic until they were not.

                              There was a discussion i listened to by a swiss immunologist. He debunked the idea of asymptomatic spread.

                              Asymptomatics show up as positive but the test kit is unable to distinguish whether the detected virus RNA is viable or not.

                              If you're asymptomatic for all intents and purposes your immune system won the fight. You won't be spreading to any one.

                              The net result is no spread. No epidemic let alone pandemic.
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Jun 21,, 14:19.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                                2. Bioweapons are horribly inefficient for use by a 1st or 2nd tier nation due to their vagaries and they can be easily defeated. Most military members are vaccinated against most variants that can be weaponized...and basic CBRN defense techniques work as well until you can get the force out of the impacted area.
                                I think its worth getting into the meaning of efficient here. It means different things to you and the lay person.

                                For you inefficient means lack of precision and high chance of collateral damage. It can be a weapon but its not a good weapon. Its the equivalent of a dirty bomb. But even a dirty bomb is localised. This is a dirty bomb gone global. It's a complete fail for a weapon because if the intent was local you wiped out the world. That is your basis for ruling out bioweapon.

                                The lay person sees the global spread as very efficient and this is why they think its a bioweapon because it gets to so many.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Jun 21,, 17:25.

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