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Covid Origins: Lab leak hypothesis

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  • Ok, let's be clear about something. For SARS-COV-2 to be man-made, we need a bug that is 99% identicle to SARS-COV-2 to begin with and MAYBE, in theory, we can gap the 1% with genetic manipulation but we end up with a projected failure rate of 90%+. We would be extremely lucky if we did this in under 6 months. This was a natural mutation.

    The question is did the mutation happened in a lab or in the wild. We don't know BUT we do know that the Bat Lady stated 100% that no research was being done on the SARS-COV family (and she has the world wide reputation to back her on this) and that no one in the WIV has been tested positive for SARS-COV-2.

    Think this carries a hell of a lot more weight thatn Gravatis or DRASTIC

    SARS-COV-2 as an artificial creation: scientific arguments and counterarguments | JML
    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 27 Jun 21,, 21:09.
    Chimo

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    • Quite the submission China made at the Biological weapons convention in 2011 !!! Document Sharri refers to can be found here at the UN's digital library.



      How can they say this knowing those responsible can be identified and retaliated against ?
      Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 21,, 18:30.

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      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Think this carries a hell of a lot more weight thatn Gravatis or DRASTIC


        Heard about the email thing over a week back. Jim Jordan is just putting it out there. Kristian Anderson admits via email something odd in the genome but then goes on to say natural.

        BUT we do know that the Bat Lady stated 100% that no research was being done on the SARS-COV family (and she has the world wide reputation to back her on this) and that no one in the WIV has been tested positive for SARS-COV-2.
        This is more problematic because it begs the question at what OTHER lab was such research going on then ?
        Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Jun 21,, 21:30.

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        • Both of these vids assume that SARS-COV-2 is a weaponized bio. I don't give a damn what's written on paper 10 years ago or in an email last year. The science says that today's labs cannot manufacture SARS-COV-2 without a bug that is 99% identicle.
          Chimo

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          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            Both of these vids assume that SARS-COV-2 is a weaponized bio. I don't give a damn what's written on paper 10 years ago or in an email last year. The science says that today's labs cannot manufacture SARS-COV-2 without a bug that is 99% identicle.
            The patience of Job. I don't know how you do it for so long?

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            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Both of these vids assume that SARS-COV-2 is a weaponized bio.
              Forget weapon. That implies intent.

              Weapon, lab leak & genetic engineering got commingled so people labelled conspiracy when they heard weapon and ignored the latter two.

              Way to evaluate a conspiracy is strip out what can be discounted and see what is left.

              We get lab leak & genetic engineering. That is the basis of the present lab leak theory.

              Credible. Always been credible without the two fatwas proscribing it.

              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              I don't give a damn what's written on paper 10 years ago or in an email last year. The science says that today's labs cannot manufacture SARS-COV-2 without a bug that is 99% identicle.
              Swiss cloned it within a month ?

              Its possible to graft spike proteins onto a backbone and this is what makes it deadly by attaching to human ACE2 receptors. Verified by experiments on humanised mice.

              It does sound like the remote end of science fiction but its not.

              What do you mean by lab leak Brett was asked on this show
              Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Jun 21,, 09:54.

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              • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                The patience of Job. I don't know how you do it for so long?
                Why treating lab leak seriously is important ?

                If C19 is the result of a lab leak we can correct that behaviour going forward an eliminate that hazard.

                If we pretend there is no chance it came from a lab then we will continue such work and C19 will demonstrate that such work needs to be at a larger scale because it was not fast enough to prevent this pandemic.

                So what we do downstream is the exact opposite of what we would do if this was a natural spillover event.

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                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  We get lab leak & genetic engineering. That is the basis of the present lab leak theory.

                  Credible. Always been credible without the two fatwas proscribing it.
                  The point is that we DO NOT have the know how to get from point A (RATAG) to point B (SARS-COV-2). To do what you're suggesting we need point A to be 99% of point B and even then we will hit more pot holes than actually getting to point B.

                  The rest is just obscuring the fact that no lab in the world is capable of doing that.

                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Swiss cloned it within a month ?

                  Its possible to graft spike proteins onto a backbone and this is what makes it deadly by attaching to human ACE2 receptors. Verified by experiments on humanised mice.

                  It does sound like the remote end of science fiction but its not.

                  What do you mean by lab leak Brett was asked on this show
                  You do know the difference between CLONED, ie copying SARS-COV-2, and changing the hell out of RATAG, right? They've CLONED it; NOT manipulate the hell out of RATAG.

                  Which is why your articles are complete BS. They mix up scientfic methods, gives the laymen a whole bunch of technical terms just to confuse him, ie you, and you bought their crap hook, line, and sinker.

                  I don't give a damn what Bret says. He has ZERO qualifications to comment on virology laboratory protocals. You take his word because it sounds nice when I can smell the BS off of him. Protein spikes ALONE is not proof enough of GOF.
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 30 Jun 21,, 11:35.
                  Chimo

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                  • Another group of scientists have authored a letter calling for all possible origins to be studied. I havent seen a full list of signatories. This one is called the Paris letter, they go further than the Science letter and suggest an alternative approach for investigating without ccp cooperation.

                    https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fren...-Covid-origins

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                    • https://news.yahoo.com/lab-leak-theo...201329270.html

                      There has clearly been a problem with the peer review process. No way this paper, which finally ended up being published in a top journal should have bounced around for a whole year. The fact that journals dont have to explain why they reject papers is a huge problem. Not ony has this process locked out research that doesnt fit the narrative, we can only speculate on what research doesnt get funded to begin with.

                      There has been other work done on the early version of covid 19 and its ability to bind with other animal cells. Further supports the need to find an intermediate, be in wild or lab, as a direct jump from bat to human doesnt make sense. The paper also lends support to excluding certain animals from the list. Any animal that binds very poorly with the early version of covid 19 that emerged in Wuhan is a poor candidate as the intermediate.

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                      • USG won't hold a hearing on the origins of C19 so the opposition went ahead and held one.



                        Here's the thing i don't get.

                        Obama stopped funding for GoF research back in 2014. The Dems are in the clear on that score.

                        The funding was somehow restarted in 2017. Whether Eco alliance was some money laundering operation to allow funding remains to be shown.

                        Trump's in office 2017.

                        You would expect the Dems to be pushing this investigation rather than the repubs who were in office when the funding restarted and have to answer for it. I'd expect the Repubs to be defensive over this as funding happened during their watch.

                        This is not what you see happening though.

                        Nobody is questioning the repubs for this, only Fauci is getting grilled which is fine but nobody in the Trump administration knew funding got restarted ?

                        The Dems appear to be dragging their feet though Biden calling for an investigation compensates here somewhat and its the Repubs that are pushing for more investigations.

                        I sense there is tacit approval coming from the administration. Bipartisan agreement is there but USG does not want to be too vocal about it and calling for a probe confirms their approval.

                        Let the Repubs do the ground work and the administration can then take credit for acting on it.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Jul 21,, 10:05.

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                        • Steven Quay's earlier interviews and article don't really do justice to his work. In this video he makes an excellent presentation adding to lab leak

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                          • Unless you can show me that the Chinese had a bug with 99% of the DNA of SARS-COV-2, the lab leak idea is out the windoiw. That is the science of it. Everything else is speculation.
                            Chimo

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                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Unless you can show me that the Chinese had a bug with 99% of the DNA of SARS-COV-2, the lab leak idea is out the windoiw. That is the science of it. Everything else is speculation.
                              Does not need to be 99%. RATG is 96% which represents about 50 years of evolution.

                              Steven Quay mentions on a good afternoon (!) these labs can do 500 years of evolution !!!

                              Asher mentions Ralph Baric synthesized SARS COV2 in two days. All vaccine companies have had to do it as well.

                              Some swiss researchers published a paper how to grow it in bakers yeast (!)

                              Check out Quay's presentation. He condenses a lot of stuff into something a layperson can understand.

                              Fleshes out what Nick Wade summarised.

                              All the people i've heard so far on lab leak have been consistent. The story isn't changing.
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Jul 21,, 20:51.

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                              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                                USG won't hold a hearing on the origins of C19 so the opposition went ahead and held one.



                                Here's the thing i don't get.

                                Obama stopped funding for GoF research back in 2014. The Dems are in the clear on that score.

                                The funding was somehow restarted in 2017. Whether Eco alliance was some money laundering operation to allow funding remains to be shown.

                                Trump's in office 2017.

                                You would expect the Dems to be pushing this investigation rather than the repubs who were in office when the funding restarted and have to answer for it. I'd expect the Repubs to be defensive over this as funding happened during their watch.

                                This is not what you see happening though.

                                Nobody is questioning the repubs for this, only Fauci is getting grilled which is fine but nobody in the Trump administration knew funding got restarted ?

                                The Dems appear to be dragging their feet though Biden calling for an investigation compensates here somewhat and its the Repubs that are pushing for more investigations.

                                I sense there is tacit approval coming from the administration. Bipartisan agreement is there but USG does not want to be too vocal about it and calling for a probe confirms their approval.

                                Let the Repubs do the ground work and the administration can then take credit for acting on it.
                                Its important to note it wasnt a blanket stop on GOF, just a pause on federal funding for certain types of GOF. It did not include coronaviruses, they werent high on anybodys list of concerns despite sars 1 and mers, eveyone had their eye on influenza.

                                My understanding is Fauci had the pause on funding lifted in the back channels, not saying he did anything wrong, just that he found a quiet way of getting things rolling again, machinations of the bureaucracy. If thats true the dems will not be too focused on it, and since it happened under trump the repubs wont be too focused on it either.

                                Personally the whole thing is a bit distraction, its not central to the origins of covid 19 and the debate on GOF has been out in the open for years before this pandemic, both sides have legitimate points of view. I touched on this at the beginning of the thread.

                                We run the risk of turning this important global issue into another us political drama.

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