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What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

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  • I so believe these people will stop protesting the day Cary Lam says so : D

    Been over two weeks since that security law passed in Beijing.

    Mocking the national anthem part is applicable to HK.

    Anything else ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Jun 20,, 00:18.

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    • You have the peaceful and not so peaceful

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      • HK Gets China's National Security Law

        Effective July 1, 2020, China has imposed a national security law on Hong Kong. Here are my first impressions.

        1. If some version of the 2003 Article 23 Legislation had been passed by the Legislative Council, this 2020 law would not have even been brought up for discussion in Beijing. Therefore, the pan-Democrats share a portion of the blame.

        2. This 2020 law is far, far worse than even the first draft of the 2003 Article 23 proposals.

        Details:
        Chapter 1, Article 3: “It is the duty of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region under the Constitution to safeguard national security and the Region shall perform the duty accordingly.”

        Article 4: “Human rights shall be respected and protected in safeguarding national security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. The rights and freedoms, including the freedoms of speech, of the press, of publication, of association, of assembly, of procession and of demonstration, which the residents of the Region enjoy under the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and the provisions of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights as applied to Hong Kong, shall be protected in accordance with the law.”

        Article 6:
        “It is the common responsibility of all the people of China, including the people of Hong Kong, to safeguard the sovereignty, unification and territorial integrity of the People’s Republic of China.”

        Then, it gets dicey.


        Chapter II, Article 9: “The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall strengthen its work on safeguarding national security and prevention of terrorist activities. The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall take necessary measures to strengthen public communication, guidance, supervision and regulation over matters concerning national security, including those relating to schools, universities, social organisations, the media, and the internet.”

        Note the lack of any definition of terms.


        Article 12: “The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall establish the Committee for Safeguarding National Security. The Committee shall be responsible for affairs relating to and assume primary responsibility for safeguarding national security in the Region. It shall be under the supervision of and accountable to the Central People’s Government.”

        In other words, this committee bypasses the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government.

        Article 14: “Information relating to the work of the Committee shall not be subject to disclosure. Decisions made by the Committee shall not be amenable to judicial review.”

        In Article 16, the Hong Kong Police Force are required to establish an office for safeguarding national security, and the head of that office needs to be approved by the (newly established and appointed under Beijing's direct control) Office for Safeguarding National Security of the Central People's Government in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region." Personnel may be recruited from outside Hong Kong …

        In Article 18, they add a similar office for the Justice Department. Article 19 ensures that the Legislative Council cannot control such offices' purse strings.

        Chapter III, Part 1: Don't even think about separating Hong Kong from China.

        Part 2, Article 22:
        Interfering with the power of the Central People's Government or “attacking or damaging the premises and facilities used by the body of power” of the Hong Kong government is considered sedition.

        Part 3, Articles 24-27
        , deals with terrorism. For the purposes of this law, terrorism includes engaging in, funding, or advocating violence with a political agenda.

        Part 4, Article 29, makes it an offense to ask anyone outside the People's Republic of China to impose sanctions or provoke “hatred among Hong Kong residents towards the Central People's Government or the Government of the Region...”
        Again, no definition of terms.

        Articles 36-38: All of the foregoing also applies to any violation taking place aboard any aircraft or vessel registered in Hong Kong. And, to offenses conducted outside Hong Kong by either residents or non-residents.

        This hasn't been discussed in the comments I've seen.

        Chapter 4, Article 44: The CE shall chose which judges will hear national security cases. And, in Article 46, the Secretary of Justice may decide to authorize a no-jury trial.

        If that's too onerous, under Article 55, the HKSARG can simply ask the Office for Safeguarding National Security of the Central People's Government in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to go ahead and take jurisdiction over the case. Including investigation, prosecution and adjudication.

        Naturally, any actions taken in the course of their duties by the Office for Safeguarding National Security of the Central People's Government in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region are not under the jurisdiction of the HKSARG.

        The CE held a press briefing at 8pm on July 1, 2020. At 8:20pm, the police issued a press release saying that some scores of people had been arrested, including 9 for National Security Law violations.
        Trust me?
        I'm an economist!

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        • All those articles for what? Just vague terms, open ended, and a kangaroo court that will most likely land you in a deep, dark hole, deep inside China for life.

          They could have cut to the chase by simply saying that if you so much as look cross-eyed at the Party you will never see the light of day again.

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          • In a first, India speaks up on Hong Kong

            God damned. Name China FFS. Name and shame China.

            Hong Kong: First arrests under 'anti-protest' law as handover marked

            Simon Cheng: UK asylum for ex-consulate worker 'tortured in China'
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
              All those articles for what? Just vague terms, open ended, and a kangaroo court that will most likely land you in a deep, dark hole, deep inside China for life.

              They could have cut to the chase by simply saying that if you so much as look cross-eyed at the Party you will never see the light of day again.
              There was an ancient socio-political system in China, akin to Daoism, called Legalism.
              Spelling out the fine details of dos and don't is a long and storied tradition in the Middle Kingdom.
              Trust me?
              I'm an economist!

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              • Well here comes the first test of their new laws. Could be ominous for those 10 charged with abetting others to commit secession including a 15 year old girl. Tried in Hong Kong? Moved to China? Life or the minimum 10 years?

                https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/asia/...hnk/index.html

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                • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  In a first, India speaks up on Hong Kong

                  God damned. Name China FFS. Name and shame China.
                  We should be content that India decided to say something here. Anodyne as it is. It sets a precedent for the future.

                  It represents a shift from the past where as a rule we do not comment on internal affairs of other countries.

                  This practice is followed by Russia & China as well.

                  Except China took us to the UNSC over 370.

                  The reason its important to say something about HK is because its a harbinger of things to come.

                  That is China exporting its domestic policy to other states.

                  HK today, more countries along its periphery tomorrow.

                  Internal security law, yes in other countries.

                  China does not occupy these countries and force it down their throats, these countries gradually adopt Chinese laws

                  They will call it Pax Sinica

                  A milder form is BRI that does this with standards
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 20,, 01:48.

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                  • Extradition treaties comes next

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                    That's what got the whole circus going isn't it. Extradition to China from HK

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                    • The COVID Economy, Hong Kong Q-2 2020 Edition


                      According to preliminary estimates, Hong Kong's economy contracted 9% in the second quarter of 2020, after falling 9.1% in Q-1. Private consumption fell 14.5% (vs. -10.6% in Q-1), and capital investment by 20.6% (-15.8%). Two-way trade fell 10.9%, with imports dropping more quickly than exports, and services trade falling by nearly half. See: https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/...0072900384.htm

                      Retail sales, which have fallen for 17 straight months year-on-year, dropped 35.1% in the first half of 2020, after discounting mild inflation (+2.5% on the retail deflator). Tourist arrivals are down more than 88% from last year. Arrivals since February have been off 98-99.9%. https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/...0073000272.htm

                      In normal times, that news might have dominated the headlines, but these are not those times. After receiving 184 nominations for legislative elections scheduled for early September (see: https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/...0073101009.htm), the government decided to cut its expected losses and postponed the poll for a year (see: https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/...0073100898.htm).
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

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                      • How Hong Kong's Dream Died

                        Investigation of a Death Long Feared: How China Decided to Impose its National Security Law in Hong Kong


                        By Minxin Pei, Sept 1, 2020, China Leadership Monitor (https://www.prcleader.org/pei-2)

                        Synopsis:
                        China’s imposition of a national security law in Hong Kong has effectively ended the “one country, two systems” governance model in the former British colony. *Available evidence suggests that this was one of the options for Beijing in order to quell the unrest in the city. *Chinese leaders were reluctant to resort to this drastic measure until last year when protests against a controversial extradition law resulted in mass demonstrations and escalating violent confrontations between protesters and police. Our open-source research suggests that because the events in Hong Kong were deemed by Chinese leaders as touching the “bottom line” set by Xi Jinping in his speech commemorating the twentieth anniversary of Hong Kong’s reversion to Chinese rule on July 1, 2017, they decided to use this option. The decision to impose a national security law was likely made between late July and the end of August 2019 with little involvement of the SAR’s leadership.
                        One Country, Two Systems: “...the case of the skeptics has been thoroughly vindicated. The end of the HKSAR as a semi-autonomous entity came much sooner than expected – less than half-way through the 50-year grace period promised by China.”

                        Implications: “By breaking probably its most important international commitment, Beijing has seriously undermined its credibility, alienated potentially neutral actors such as the countries in Europe, and greatly bolstered Washington’s case for confronting China before it is too late.” and, “Another grave long-term consequence of Beijing’s imposition of the NSL is the total discrediting of the OCTS model, originally conceived as a plausible framework for Taiwan’s eventual peaceful reunification with the mainland.”


                        Comment: Professor Pei assumes that as of July 2019, nearly a year before any action was taken, the alternative to imposing a harsh national security law on Hong Kong was to send in the troops – the paramilitary People's Armed Police (PAP) or even the People's Liberation Army (PLA) – to crush dissent.

                        While Pei usefully points out that blaming external forces was part of the justification, and little else, he also highlights the repeated references to the dangers of a 'color revolution' as one of the most important considerations.
                        Trust me?
                        I'm an economist!

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                        • Xi isn't interested in 1C2S, nor is he really interested in peaceful reunification with Taiwan on anything other than utter submission.

                          in this way Xi is very much like Putin: it takes a smart person to do really dumb things.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            in this way Xi is very much like Putin: it takes a smart person to do really dumb things.
                            *** Looking at the US COVID response *** Name me one thing that Putin and Xi did that even came close to Trump?

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