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Indian Supreme Court decriminalises Section 377

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Aussie podcast discussing the ruling

    https://policyforumpod.simplecast.fm/india-gay-rights

    The professor read the 500 pg judgement and is impressed by the depth it went to. It's very sweeping. The idea of self-determination of identity has applications in other areas.

    It could serve as a model judgement for other countries. Which would bring the whole matter full circle. Since it was India's colonial penal code that got exported elsewhere to commonwealth countries in Asia & Africa to begin with. Malaysia, Singapore & Brunei also have a section 377. Leaving out the muslim members, the commonwealth as a result even today remains the most homophobic group of countries out there.

    An important obstacle has been removed but there remains a lot of work still to do. Particularly in education where the govt informs people about these rules.

    It might not be illegal but it will still take a long time to change attitudes.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Sep 18,, 02:56.

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  • Oracle
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    In genuine cases that is one thing but it also gets abused.

    If a woman gets dumped expecting to get married she can file a rape case. They don't go silently and commit suicide.

    If parents want to separate a couple for whatever reason, they can file a rape case.
    Agree. Much like the Dowry act, women themselves are responsible for this. Not blaming women in general, only those that abuse the law.

    I was talking about genuine cases though, like the Rewari rape case.

    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I don't bother about rape any more. People always get overly emotional about it. The point is its gets reported more often these days. That's about it.
    Yeah, nowadays it gets reported much more. I have to learn to ignore it too. It's a social crime, and there always will be some a****** who'd try to take advantage of women. Let police deal with it.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    Almost on a weekly basis I read about rapes in North India and other places, and with it the same story of Police personnel refusing to file an FIR. Feel disgusted to say the least, but I guess people have become conditioned to such issues.
    In genuine cases that is one thing but it also gets abused.

    If a woman gets dumped expecting to get married she can file a rape case. They don't go silently and commit suicide.

    If parents want to separate a couple for whatever reason, they can file a rape case.

    I don't bother about rape any more. People always get overly emotional about it. The point is its gets reported more often these days. That's about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    Mizoram churches ‘reject’ SC’s Section 377 ruling

    Move on or fall behind. Buggers.

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  • Oracle
    replied
    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    This is what whistleblower laws are supposed to protect
    Whistle Blowers Protection Act, 2011, then, Donít shoot the messenger

    In a country of 1.3 billion, where discrimination based on sexual orientation, religion, caste etc is everyday norm, no law can protect ordinary citizens, unless IPC (Indian Penal Code) are fine-tuned to address the needs of a modern India. Almost on a weekly basis I read about rapes in North India and other places, and with it the same story of Police personnel refusing to file an FIR. Feel disgusted to say the least, but I guess people have become conditioned to such issues. Anyone who thinks the BJP is out there to make lives better for the ordinary citizens needs to wake up to the brutal reality, that all politicians crave is power, and all they think is how to cling onto it. People can go to hell for all they care.

    All these years culminating to the 2014 win of BJP, I wanted Congress to lose power, but the BJP ain't full of highly-educated, progressive politicians either.

    Will kidnap the girl you love: Maharashtra BJP MLA Ram Kadam tells youngsters

    At first glance this piece of news might seem taken out of context. But with a huge population of unemployed, uneducated men, news such as these are reasons for thrill. Like the pretty girl next door, kidnap her. If she disagrees, knife her to death or throw acid and disfigure her. Want revenge, gang-rape women. There is this attitude of men wanting to satisfy their lust, not by going to a red-light area, but by picking up girls and gang-raping them. There are red light areas in every metro, almost every town in India, but they are not helping solve the rape problem. People can watch porn in their mobiles now, in the privacy of their room, and relieve themselves, but this has not stopped rapes. The society is filled with social evils.

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  • Oracle
    replied
    Tech Mahindra: Ombudsman investigating employee's charges of homophobia, prejudice against Inclusivity Head

    Tech Mahindra sacks ‘bigoted’ ex-diversity chief

    Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    This is what whistleblower laws are supposed to protect
    That would protect him from any action by Tech Mahindra. I don't think he has any problems there.

    But how would it protect him from other companies when it comes employment

    It's not clear at this point whether he is planning any suit against Mahindra

    Leave a comment:


  • antimony
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I can only imagine the pain this Gaurav has been through but think again and ask, who would hire Gaurav now ? What does he gain out of this, there is a risk here with his action.

    Its a similar thing with workman's compensation. Any employer finds you pushed for that they are not going to want to employ you.

    And that is how a lot of crap remains in the closet
    This is what whistleblower laws are supposed to protect

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I can only imagine the pain this Gaurav has been through but think again and ask, who would hire Gaurav now ? What does he gain out of this, there is a risk here with his action.

    Its a similar thing with workman's compensation. Any employer finds you pushed for that they are not going to want to employ you.

    And that is how a lot of crap remains in the closet
    True. I don't know of any company, which, whatever it preaches, is comfortable with employees ranting about it. It will take a while, but laws need to be codified, that such people when discriminated get enough compensation (like millions of $$$), they can start a new life with it and not depend on a job thereafter. Otherwise, this whole thing will have failed, and intimidation and discrimination would continue.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    Richa Gautam's career is almost done. If found guilty, she should be made an example of.
    I can only imagine the pain this Gaurav has been through but think again and ask, who would hire Gaurav now ? What does he gain out of this, there is a risk here with his action.

    Its a similar thing with workman's compensation. Any employer finds you pushed for that they are not going to want to employ you.

    And that is how a lot of crap remains in the closet

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    Tech Mahindra probes diversity officer who ‘said only gay men cry & Islam a global pain

    Skeletons tumbling out of the closet. Expect many more such cases to come out in the open now. Richa Gautam's career is almost done. If found guilty, she should be made an example of.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    More than the social impact of the Supreme Court's judgment on gay rights, what will be of concern to the ruling party at the Centre is its political fallout. Hence, the eloquent silence of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on the subject.
    Silence is golden i thought : )

    For the BJP and its ideological mentor, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), any expansion of the concept of civil liberties is fraught with danger to their restrictive worldviews since a widening of human rights carries the prospect of greater individualism.
    Author needs to explain the concept of Modi then. Modi is a curious phenomena. Elevating the individual over the party isn't typical of the RSS who prefers the collective over the individual. But in 2014 people didn't vote for the BJP. They voted for Modi. In that sense the 2014 elections were unqiue in being like american elections. As far as the BJP is concerned Modi was a clear favourite by the RSS workers so there was no problem. But it usually is a problem for the BJP to announce a candidate before the results are out.

    They did it with Yeddy in Karnataka earlier this year, and the thinking is factions against Yeddy within the BJP Karnataka took it easy. BJP came out short because of their own infighting.

    They also did it in Delhi with Kiran Bedi. What was the result. A compete rout by AAP. Clearly the RSS workers didn't favour her. This was a cock up by Amit Shah

    Now UP state election was interesting. They never announced who the CM would be until after the results. There were at least ten contenders for the post. To announce a CM before the polls would be to have those nine factions work against their own party. In the end the way Yogi found out he was the one is because his passport request to attend a seminar in Singapore was denied by the centre. Instead he was told to go to a swearing in ceremony. His own

    If the rights of the homosexuals to live without legal constraints are conceded, it can only encourage the people to free themselves of other restrictions as well such as on choosing live-in partners (of whatever sex) and eating, dressing and speaking as they please.
    Where does he get this from ? who in the BJP has said it

    There may be conservative quarters who believe this though.

    For the Hindu Right, as also for other religious fundamentalists, this dalliance with civil rights -- the freedom to criticise the government, the exaltation of privacy and now the decriminalisation of homosexuality -- entails a push towards liberalism and modernism which are anathema to any group which wants the society to be bound by shackles of orthodoxy and obscurantism.
    Why they didn't say anything when Modi went on all these trips around the world ? because the Hindu right is a vocal group but doesn't get a whole lot of traction within the BJP. They get thrown a bone now & then.

    It is also possible that the saffronites will keep a hawk's eye on any social problems that may arise because of the assertion of gay rights. As the BJP MP Subramanian Swamy has said, with eager anticipation, if a five-judge bench can overturn an earlier judgment in favour of criminalising homosexuality, a larger bench can undo the present verdict if gay bars begin to flourish and there is a rise in the cases of HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) infections.
    It must be true then if SS said it : D

    The man has a Phd in economics not law or politics

    However, one possible reason why MPs and MLAs, especially of the BJP, seem to be out of sync with the present-day world is the presence in their midst of a large number of criminal elements who can hardly be regarded as the most progressive sections of society.
    Because Amit Shah picks candidates on the sole basis of win-abilty

    He's not the only one. Same story with the UPA back in 2009

    Important as this ruling is for India it does not apply to J & K

    http://www.opindia.com/2018/09/no-ho...ized-in-india/

    Interestingly, the two former chief ministers, Omar Abdullah and Mehbooba Mufti who are usually active on social media expressing their views about almost every national issue, remained silent on the SC judgment.
    Funny that
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Sep 18,, 13:48.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied

    Why not. As the article says there are those, really always those, who can't accept modernization in any shape, manner, or form. We still have conservatives here who believe equal rights for gays should be rescinded.

    It boggles the mind. In my early years I never understood what some had against gays since they weren't exactly hidden away in the Bay Area. Time didn't seem to change a thing when I realized that even time can't temper the desire to control.

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  • zraver
    replied
    Congrats India.

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  • Oracle
    replied
    Section 377: Is the BJP out of sync with modern realities?

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