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French Presidential Election

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  • #76
    So Le Pen gets a Male translator ?????????? Thats sexism right there!

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    • #77
      Originally posted by kato View Post
      It does have some background. Some Polish media "interpreted" a speech by Le Pen in march as offering an "alliance" to both Kaczynski and Orban. Mostly an alliance to destroy the EU. A PiS spokeswoman then rejected this. It does stand - from the French perspective - as Le Pen wanting to work with Kaczynski though.
      http://www.rp.pl/Polityka/170319565-...szu-z-PiS.html
      http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/29...99-spokeswoman
      I am sure there are some uninformed loones in Poland who would vote Le Pen and for tearing up the EU but the present Government, though it has it's faults, is not batsh*t loony and understands well that Poland is a net receiver of EU funding. Disagreeing on some aspects of policy is normal in the EU but should not be mistaken for disagreement with the basic ethos.

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      • #78
        Macron looks like a French Tony Blair.....

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        • #79
          That's because he is. Very third-way.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by kato View Post
            That's because he is. Very third-way.
            Be Careful with that 3rd way...just sayin...

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            • #81
              There's been some analysis of the debate.

              Macron was caught on one misinterpreted statistic (he claimed that 20% of 10-year-olds can't read - it's actually that 20% don't have the reading competency expected for that age, which is a different thing). He also misstated that France "is the only state that has failed to stop mass unemployment" when France is actually only at near EU average on unemployment, and even close to home both Spain and Italy have higher unemployment rates.

              Le Pen was caught on... well, 19 things. Based on some of her antics some French assume she was drunk or high.

              P.S. Flash polls taken after the debate have moved the opinion of people to around 64:34 in favour of Macron with regard to "who'd be better president", except on "understanding people" where he gets 55:42 (which was surveyed at around 48:49 before the debate).
              Last edited by kato; 04 May 17,, 05:43.

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              • #82
                Possible political blow against Le Pen: French media have found out that the security chief of industry giant LafargeHolcim, Jean-Claude Veillard, used to be a candidate for Front National.

                Lafarge is accused of operating a cement plant in ISIS territory; Veillard was the one who negotiated that for them, including paying "fees" to ISIS. Veillard ran in a municipal election on the same ballot as Le Pen's current treasurer - the same month Lafarge finally had to close that plant in ISIS territory.

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                • #83
                  very interesting to see how this is getting replayed over and over again on a global level. the decline of the center-left as members of the Old Left flee to the far right.

                  of course there's a catch-22 here; the decline of Labour in the UK also shows that going all the way left means the moderates flee the party too. essentially we're moving to much more emotion-based politics.

                  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/o...ne-le-pen.html

                  PARIS — Last month, the face of Marine Le Pen appeared on my computer screen. The headline under the picture read, “Marine Le Pen in Round 2.” The leader of France’s far-right National Front, she had advanced to a runoff vote in the presidential election. I immediately thought of my father, a hundred miles away.

                  I imagined him bursting with joy in front of the TV — the same joy he felt in 2002 when Jean-Marie Le Pen, Marine Le Pen’s father and the previous leader of the National Front, also made it to the second round. I remembered my father shouting, “We’re going to win!” with tears in his eyes.

                  I grew up in Hallencourt, a tiny village in Northern France where, until the 1980s, nearly everyone worked for the same factory. By the time I was born, in the 1990s, after several waves of layoffs, most of the people around me were out of work and had to survive as best they could on welfare. My father left school at 14, as did his father before him. He worked for 10 years at the factory. He never got a chance to be laid off: One day at work, a storage container fell on him and crushed his back, leaving him bedridden, on morphine for the pain.

                  I knew the feeling of being hungry before I knew how to read. From the time I was 5 my father would order me to go down the street and knock on the door of one of my aunts to ask if she could spare some pasta or bread for our table. I was sent because he knew it was easier to pity a child than an adult. Every year the amount of his workers’ compensation decreased. I have four siblings, and in the end, my father couldn’t feed a family of seven. My mother didn’t work; my father said a woman’s place was in the home.

                  At 18, thanks to a series of lucky breaks and miracles, I became a student of philosophy in Paris, at a school considered one of the most prestigious in France. I was the first in my family to attend college. So far from the world where I’d grown up, living in a little studio on the Place de la République, I decided to write a novel about where I came from.

                  I wanted to bear witness to the poverty and exclusion that were part of our everyday experience. I was struck and troubled that the life I knew all those years never appeared in books, in newspapers or on TV. Every time I heard someone talk about “France,” on the news or even in the street, I knew they weren’t talking about the people I’d grown up with.

                  Two years later, I finished the book and sent it to a big Paris publisher. Less than two weeks later, he sent a reply: He couldn’t publish my manuscript because the poverty I wrote about hadn’t existed in more than a century; no one would believe the story I had to tell. I read that email several times, choked with rage and despair.

                  In the 2000s, when I was growing up, every member of my family voted for Mr. Le Pen. My father went into the polling station with my older brothers to make sure they really were voting for the National Front. The mayor and his staff members didn’t say anything when they saw my father doing this. In our village, with its population of only a few hundred, everyone had attended the same school. Everyone saw everyone else at the bakery in the morning or in the cafe at night. No one wanted to pick a fight with my father.

                  A vote for the National Front was of course a vote tinged with racism and homophobia. My father looked forward to the time when we would “throw out the Arabs and the Jews.” He liked to say that gay people deserved the death penalty — looking sternly at me, who already in primary school was attracted to other boys on the playground.

                  And yet what those elections really meant for my father was a chance to fight his sense of invisibility. My father understood, long before I did, that in the minds of the bourgeoisie — people like the publisher who would turn down my book a few years later — our existence didn’t count and wasn’t real.

                  My father had felt abandoned by the political left since the 1980s, when it began adopting the language and thinking of the free market. Across Europe, left-wing parties no longer spoke of social class, injustice and poverty, of suffering, pain and exhaustion. They talked about modernization, growth and harmony in diversity, about communication, social dialogue and calming tensions.

                  My father understood that this technocratic vocabulary was meant to shut up workers and spread neoliberalism. The left wasn’t fighting for the working class, against the laws of the marketplace; it was trying to manage the lives of the working class from within those laws. The unions had undergone the same transformation: My grandfather was a union man. My father was not.

                  When he was watching TV and a socialist or a union representative appeared on the screen, my father would complain, “Whatever — left, right, now, they’re all the same.” That “whatever” distilled all of his disappointment in those who, in his mind, should have been standing up for him but weren’t.

                  By contrast, the National Front railed against poor working conditions and unemployment, laying all the blame on immigration or the European Union. In the absence of any attempt by the left to discuss his suffering, my father latched on to the false explanations offered by the far right. Unlike the ruling class, he didn’t have the privilege of voting for a political program. Voting, for him, was a desperate attempt to exist in the eyes of others.

                  I don’t know for sure how he voted last month, in the first round of the presidential election, and I don’t know for sure how he will vote on Sunday, in the runoff. He and I almost never speak. Our lives have grown too far apart, and whenever we try to talk on the phone, we are reduced to silence by the pain of having become strangers to each other. Usually we hang up after a minute or two, embarrassed that neither of us can think of anything to say.

                  But even if I can’t ask him directly, I’m confident he is still voting for the National Front. In his village, Marine Le Pen came out way ahead in the first round of the election.

                  Today, writers, journalists and liberals bear the weight of responsibility for the future. To persuade my family not to vote for Marine Le Pen, it’s not enough to show that she is racist and dangerous: Everyone knows that already. It’s not enough to fight against hate or against her. We have to fight for the powerless, for a language that gives a place to the most invisible people — people like my father.
                  Last edited by astralis; 05 May 17,, 14:54.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                  • #84
                    Same author, two months ago: https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...n-kim-willsher

                    I grew up in Hallencourt, a tiny village in Northern France where, until the 1980s, nearly everyone worked for the same factory. By the time I was born, in the 1990s, after several waves of layoffs, most of the people around me were out of work and had to survive as best they could on welfare.
                    And this is why i'm quite reserved about that author. Yeah, there were layoffs. But said company, FAVI, currently employs 400 people in a village of 1,300. The area itself? In demographic and economic decline since the 1840s.
                    His claim in the Guardian Article that 50-55% in that village regularly vote Front National? Gee, for some reason only 33.7% voted for Le Pen this time. Which is barely more than the 31.0% she got in the entire Hauts-de-France region with its 4.2 million people in the north of France.

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                    • #85
                      Graphics for vote distribution by income of the voters.

                      The income used here is the statistical median income of a municipality, charted against what percentage each candidate got. The overall median income for France is about 21200 Euro per year for reference, i.e. at the exact point where e.g. Le Pen's curve takes a downward dip and Fillon's curve turns upwards.

                      The curves are rather screwy though since the municipalities of course are not identically sized, and especially at the extreme ends either way are smaller towns. For example the lowest-median-income village of (European) France is Montgaillard, Aude at 58 inhabitants with a median income of 7344 Euro per year. 31 of 36 people allowed to vote there voted, 15 of them for Melenchon - hence his massive tilt on the left side.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      And for size of a municipality (Le Pen scored in the small villages for example), in which in my opinion they could have set the income borders in the lower row a bit differently:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Somewhat oddly, the lowest-median-income village in overall France - Camopi, French Guyana, on the Brazilian border - voted 79% for... Fillon of all people. It's a piece of jungle with a median income of 3504 Euro per year, a population of about 1700 including 500 Wayapi indigenous people and a population density comparable to the ice-free areas of Greenland.

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                      • #86
                        Big hack of Macron campaign dumped online via wordpress. All signs point in the obvious direction; ATP28 (aka 'Cozy Bear) or in others words GRU.

                        Sorry posted via pastebin.
                        Last edited by snapper; 06 May 17,, 04:31.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by snapper View Post
                          Big hack of Macron campaign dumped online via wordpress. All signs point in the obvious direction; ATP28 (aka 'Cozy Bear) or in others words GRU.

                          Sorry posted via pastebin.
                          At least Barry endorsed him publicly. No need for investigation
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            At least Barry endorsed him publicly. No need for investigation
                            Of course I have seen no evidence etc but the DGSE are not the Frog military and are generally alot more competent. There was a report of 'phishing'(?) attacks on his campaign earlier - that definately was ATP28 from the evidence that arrived here (we know them rather well). I cannot say yea/nea definitively on this dump but who have Moscow invested money in?

                            It isn't anything to do 'Barry' O' Useless - he is history already (and compared to his successor I think I am slightly grateful for his service). It is NOT just Ukraine this war is being waged against and people need to understand this.

                            PS. Some autopsy of the hack, if you click the "latest research", and history at first here; http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs...ering-attacks/
                            Last edited by snapper; 06 May 17,, 15:47.

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                            • #89
                              there must be a lot of 400 lb hackers sitting in their mothers' bedrooms. could be China, could be ANYONE...lol.
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                              • #90
                                Former french soldier arrested near Evreux airbase yesterday - reason is that he was driving around suspiciously around midnight near a military zone. Media is making it out to be an attempted terrorist attack since DGSE was involved (... gee, guess who handles counterespionage), he had a shotgun with him (... well not with him - it was found in a bush near his parked car) and a Qu'ran was found at his home.

                                The claim also made by media that he was on a terrorist watchlist (some more specific: since 2014) has been officially denied by the government, and the rest of the media claims (such as a supposed USB stick with a video file pledging his allegiance to IS being found in the car) should be equally handled somewhat reservedly.

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