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  • Originally posted by snapper View Post
    Got sent this link:



    Johnson says he will reduce the highest tax rates (an own goal to Corbyn perhaps) while Hunt says he will boost military spending by 15bn. We shall see if the UK Conservative Party has become as deprived of value as the US Republican Party. Some Tory MPs are said to be willing to bring down the Government in a House of Commons "no confidence" vote if a future PM Johnson leaves without a deal.
    Hunt sounds more Desperates, Dull, Dishonest and Disrespectful by the day....Since when was it cowardly to not appear on a Jeremy Kyle type debate? and since when did a private argument become of public interest, even after the police found No offence was committed and since when did a pair of Corbynista Curtain twitchers become a moral compass for the Nation..FFS!!!

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    • I have no idea what a "Jeremy Kyle type debate" is - perhaps I left the UK too long ago. The point is a person who seeks to PM cannot answer about an domestic incident to which the police were called - or take part in a public debate against his opponent. The 'tough guy' image is fading I suspect. Deal with issues? Nah I will bluster about technology on the Irish border. What technology? Argh um - well I am told...

      Boris is an ego and never had a real commitment in his life - I knew some of his old Uni pals from the Bullingdon Club (famous for wrecking restaurants). He does not have a political belief in his bones but thinks he can be a new Pericles (who's bust he kept on his desk at the FCO) while he utterly failed and let down Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe who is illegally imprisoned in Iran. When asked about her while Minister he replied "When we look at what Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing, she was simply teaching people journalism, as I understand it, at the very limit." You do not have to Trumpkin level stupid to know that even 'teaching journalism' let alone the added - 'I think, limit' - is condemning her in the eyes of the mad clerics that run the place. For them it does not matter... they die and they go to Paradise sooner. For Nazanin it did. Great work Boris as Foreign Secretary.

      They asked me if I would attend the only time in his term as Foreign Secretary that he visited Kyiv. I declined the invitation and was thankful to be let off. Man is a self seeker and nothing else.

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      • So if you recall the day after the referendum GDP () dropped drastically. "Just happens, it will recover" etc they said. When?

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        • Originally posted by snapper View Post
          So if you recall the day after the referendum GDP () dropped drastically. "Just happens, it will recover" etc they said. When?

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]47761[/ATTACH]
          When the Markets are confident and know the plan. But take Iceland's recovery after the bank collapse. If we had been apart of the EU we would still be in massive debt, just like Greece.
          Last edited by Freyr; 27 Jun 19,, 21:01.

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          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
            I have no idea what a "Jeremy Kyle type debate" is - perhaps I left the UK too long ago. The point is a person who seeks to PM cannot answer about an domestic incident to which the police were called - or take part in a public debate against his opponent. The 'tough guy' image is fading I suspect. Deal with issues? Nah I will bluster about technology on the Irish border. What technology? Argh um - well I am told...

            Boris is an ego and never had a real commitment in his life - I knew some of his old Uni pals from the Bullingdon Club (famous for wrecking restaurants). He does not have a political belief in his bones but thinks he can be a new Pericles (who's bust he kept on his desk at the FCO) while he utterly failed and let down Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe who is illegally imprisoned in Iran. When asked about her while Minister he replied "When we look at what Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing, she was simply teaching people journalism, as I understand it, at the very limit." You do not have to Trumpkin level stupid to know that even 'teaching journalism' let alone the added - 'I think, limit' - is condemning her in the eyes of the mad clerics that run the place. For them it does not matter... they die and they go to Paradise sooner. For Nazanin it did. Great work Boris as Foreign Secretary.

            They asked me if I would attend the only time in his term as Foreign Secretary that he visited Kyiv. I declined the invitation and was thankful to be let off. Man is a self seeker and nothing else.
            Well I think you'll understand my scepticism, they're hardly anything of intellectual value...just a Jerry Springer/Jeremy Kyle version of politics which just cheapens and make its so dim witted to watch....Nobody learns anything apart from the media which can then blab on relentlessly talking mind numbing crap!!! Listen.... I can sit and listen to the most fervent capitalist or communist, but the thing that gets me even when I disagree is when somebody is being genuinely sincere.

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            • Originally posted by Freyr View Post
              When the Markets are confident and know the plan. But take Iceland's recovery after the bank collapse. If we had been apart of the EU we would still be in massive debt, just like Greece.
              The UK never joined the euro.

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              • Originally posted by Freyr View Post
                Well I think you'll understand my scepticism, they're hardly anything of intellectual value...just a Jerry Springer/Jeremy Kyle version of politics which just cheapens and make its so dim witted to watch....Nobody learns anything apart from the media which can then blab on relentlessly talking mind numbing crap!!! Listen.... I can sit and listen to the most fervent capitalist or communist, but the thing that gets me even when I disagree is when somebody is being genuinely sincere.
                If you think Boris is 'sincere' you have not seen him contradict himself often enough.

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                • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  The UK never joined the euro.
                  If Iceland had joined the EU it would have been with the condition of accepting the Euro. Which would have stalled Iceland's recovery by many years if ever.

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                  • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                    If you think Boris is 'sincere' you have not seen him contradict himself often enough.
                    I wasn't talking about anybody in particular. Sincerity and politicians aren't something that marry very easily. But neither is the Press to be trusted which frequently distorts the facts and misquotes as a form of sport...I also think you'll find that contrary to popular perception, Boris can articulate indepth quite well as he is doing during the various hustings taking place at the moment. In fact he's the equal of Hunt any day with the added plus of being likeable...and this I am afraid is the weakness in Hunts argument for a TV debate, as he'll appear even more unlikeable
                    Last edited by Freyr; 30 Jun 19,, 18:42.

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                    • Interesting video that explains the conflict between the parliamentary sovereignty and democracy..which are at odds with each other due to British history

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                      • Originally posted by Freyr View Post
                        I wasn't talking about anybody in particular. Sincerity and politicians aren't something that marry very easily. But neither is the Press to be trusted which frequently distorts the facts and misquotes as a form of sport...I also think you'll find that contrary to popular perception, Boris can articulate indepth quite well as he is doing during the various hustings taking place at the moment. In fact he's the equal of Hunt any day with the added plus of being likeable...and this I am afraid is the weakness in Hunts argument for a TV debate, as he'll appear even more unlikeable
                        If a person is insincere how can you believe them or rely on them? Would you marry someone you cannot believe? Would you have them as a friend? If you cannot believe a word someone says I am quite unlikely to like him. Boris is lying wolf posing as a toff buffoon as a form of cover. I do not like him a bit.

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                        • Originally posted by Freyr View Post
                          Interesting video that explains the conflict between the parliamentary sovereignty and democracy..which are at odds with each other due to British history

                          Starkey is primarily a historian of the Tudors. English and British constitutional history in it's current form is largely a result of Parliament's struggles with the Stuarts.

                          I am not that the comments of an expert on Tudor history about Blair or Cameron, when they largely expose his own prejudices, should be granted any special weight. Social housing is in short supply not because it is all occupied by asylum claimants from some foreign culture but because Thatcher allowed people to buy their own Council houses in the 1980s and they did not invest in replacement housing. So all the housing that formerly Local Authorities rented cheaply to low payed working families became private housing. That's when happens when an expert on Tudor history who has political prejudices starts commenting on current political issues. It's just drivel.

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                          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                            If a person is insincere how can you believe them or rely on them? Would you marry someone you cannot believe? Would you have them as a friend? If you cannot believe a word someone says I am quite unlikely to like him. Boris is lying wolf posing as a toff buffoon as a form of cover. I do not like him a bit.
                            Well maybe you don't need to worry, if the British media get their way he won't get it. At the moment they're branding the Tory membership as Racists and unfit to elect their own leader....I remember when we actually had newsreaders who read the news (astonishing!!) ...not invent the news live on air!

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                            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                              Starkey is primarily a historian of the Tudors. English and British constitutional history in it's current form is largely a result of Parliament's struggles with the Stuarts.
                              Correct and therefore can leave most people dead in the water on this subject

                              I am not that the comments of an expert on Tudor history about Blair or Cameron, when they largely expose his own prejudices, should be granted any special weight. Social housing is in short supply not because it is all occupied by asylum claimants from some foreign culture but because Thatcher allowed people to buy their own Council houses in the 1980s and they did not invest in replacement housing. So all the housing that formerly Local Authorities rented cheaply to low payed working families became private housing. That's when happens when an expert on Tudor history who has political prejudices starts commenting on current political issues. It's just drivel.
                              Spoken like a true Socialist! So you don't think that one of the greatest things Thatcher did for the working class helped raise the standard of living in the UK???. Starkey is Working class and comes from a working class family that made sure their son got an education and that in short is why you despise him. I find your comments absurd and point no blame at Gordon Browns policies at undermining UK Private pensions. Investors had to put money into property because of his Tax policies..Which created the Property boom in the 2000's There was nothing wrong with what Thatcher did. Its what came after in the Bliar Gov that caused the current housing crisis, that and immigration policy (Straight out of a joke book) When you have 2 immigrants coming into the UK while only one UK resident leaves, coupled with the fact that housing prices are sky rocketing due to a false boom created by GOV policy. Well it doesn't take Einstein to work it out.. Hence why the current generation are struggling to buy and so rent instead. Not what Thatcher did, what BROWN ( 'No more Boom and Bust') did!!!! Should I now go on and explain why this property boom caused the banking collapse in the UK as well or do you think that was Thatchers fault as well??

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                              • Originally posted by Freyr View Post
                                Correct and therefore can leave most people dead in the water on this subject
                                On the Tudors maybe.

                                Originally posted by Freyr View Post
                                Spoken like a true Socialist! So you don't think that one of the greatest things Thatcher did for the working class helped raise the standard of living in the UK???. Starkey is Working class and comes from a working class family that made sure their son got an education and that in short is why you despise him. I find your comments absurd and point no blame at Gordon Browns policies at undermining UK Private pensions. Investors had to put money into property because of his Tax policies..Which created the Property boom in the 2000's There was nothing wrong with what Thatcher did. Its what came after in the Bliar Gov that caused the current housing crisis, that and immigration policy (Straight out of a joke book) When you have 2 immigrants coming into the UK while only one UK resident leaves, coupled with the fact that housing prices are sky rocketing due to a false boom created by GOV policy. Well it doesn't take Einstein to work it out.. Hence why the current generation are struggling to buy and so rent instead. Not what Thatcher did, what BROWN ( 'No more Boom and Bust') did!!!! Should I now go on and explain why this property boom caused the banking collapse in the UK as well or do you think that was Thatchers fault as well??
                                I am certainly not a socialist. My family and I own shares and commodities as well as parts or whole businesses. I own a solely a fruit farm outside Poltava and a yacht (which I charter when not able to use her), co-own a bakery/patisserie in Kyiv and part of a coffee shop in Lwow and my Husband and I jointly own and are involved in restoring a castle outside Lwow with local authority grants for some of the work that will be opened to the public once the restoration is done. We plan to host medieval style banquets and jousting as well offer conference space and host weddings. My Husband owns and runs his own farm. It's not that I am a 'business type'; business is not really my interest. I just like real croissants and real french bread, picked up a farm at a Government auction for next to nothing and like history and castles. It is not my day job which is far more mundane organisational issues in the UAF largely. I get some extra income, fresh organic fruit and fresh baguette when in Kyiv and have helped some displaced Tatars and former residents of Donbass so all is good. I am not an out and out 'business person' or 'money orientated' myself - I am basically a historian by nature - but I own stuff that keeps me comfortable and happy: I love sailing and as soon as I can get away go visiting ancient sites on my yacht. So much for me.

                                Well first of all I was no fan of Gordon Brown and voted for Cameron in 2010. I am not sure what Brown did to undermine pensions but I assume you refer to the 2008 crash - which started in the US 'sub prime' mortgage market. How this effected the UK 'social housing' market you do not even hint at so I cannot really understand why you mention it. I was myself deeply against Brown's bailing out the banks at the time. I am not sure if RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) is still yet fully out of public ownership 11yrs later. It was immoral to nationalise the bank losses - due to their own stupidity - while allowing them to keep privatising their profits and this I thought a was a mistake that would have further consequences. I also strongly disagreed with this making money out of nowhere - what they quaintly called "Quantitative Easing" policy (which the ECB is still doing). The Central Bankers literally got on their computers and 'created' trillions of US$ GBP and euros with which they then bought bank and mortgages etc on the markets. It was great to trade in the US in particular - every month the Fed would come out and say "Yea we are going to magic a whole new bunch of money" and sure as hell the US$ would drop and Gold would rise; it was a dead cert and I made quite alot of money trading it for my family and myself. Personally I believe in 'hard money' on a more Hayekian level and letting the markets operate freely more than Keynesian interventionism. If it needs building in a relatively prosperous economy the private sector will build it. In Ukraine at present that is not always possible as the private sector is some 60% in the hands of criminal oligarchs, the courts corrupt, and the middle class largely deprived of a political voice so the Government for now bears the burden of responsibility both to squish the oligarchs and disburse their holdings and for improvements in roads, hospitals and military supply and equipment etc... On the roads they have not entirely failed.

                                Nor am I saying what Thatcher did was in itself wrong when she allowed Council tennants to buy their own homes - though they were sold cheap and not at market prices. The problem was that after the 'Council Houses' were sold off cheap the money was not used to build more 'social housing'. Though I am not a socialist I am a Christian and a pragmatist and there will always be a working poor who need some sort of subsidised housing if they are to remain productive and not homeless. It is in everyone interest to keep these people as decently as we can so they can continue working in factories or doing whatever they do. Hopefully some will start their own businesses and pay more tax in time. I agreed with the Cameron/Osbourne (who is now going for the IMF post) policies of raising the income level at which the working poor start to pay tax. I disagreed with 'Help to Buy' (where if you had 5000 the Government would loan you another 10,000 to put down a deposit on a house type deal) and 'buy to let' type schemes which in my view just keep the UK property market artificially high and unaffordable for people on minimum wage living in rented accomodation. They should have invested in new subsisdised social housing - simple.

                                None of this is about the migration of European and Asian workers to the UK though. On that matter there were actually more migrants from outside the EU than from EU member countries itself. The UK had not invested in new 'social housing' since the 1950's and 60's and Thatcher sold alot that off cheap and did not replace it. So sure rents went up as did house prices. But these migrants also payed tax in the UK and did jobs that otherwise wouldn't be done. Last time I went to a Hospital in England I needed a couple of stitches in my finger (chopping firewood injury) and the Doctor was a Malaysian Christian Evangalist! I had a very interesting conversation with him and got his email and we are still in touch today. I do not have a problem with him become British, even if I am not any longer, as doubtless he has sewed up many more people since me. Last time I visited England I went into a shop wearing a Ukrainian badge on my jacket and the Lady greeted me 'Slava Ukraini!' but she was Polish as was I. I do not have a problem with that. Are the US and Canada - all the American nations inherantly 'wrong' because they are composed of migrants? Are not the original English themselves also migrants? Hengist and Horsa landed at Reculver as I recall the story...Other modern migrants go temporarily to pick fruit, potatoes, cabbages, cauliflowers, hops and what not and then just go home back to Romania and Bulgaria again. Most of these farms have temporary camp sites or housing for them so they live on site and do not effect the housing market while in England anyway. I knew people who used to go grape picking in France in summer after Uni in the same way.

                                Gordon Brown never sold huge amounts of social housing but did not make much either and to blame him for the crash is just wrong though I did not agree with his response by bailing out the banks. Nothing is as simple as you would like to paint it. The 2008 crash temporarily lower the housing market and what pensions have to do with it I do not know. So as far as I can see you are talking rubbish. Another problem in the UK has been planning permission to build new housing which is an extremely long and complicated process and can be costly if you hire lawyers. Still has nothing to do with Gordon Brown though who I find myself almost defending though I never voted for him. Just because you are wrong about Brown's mistakes does not make me a 'socialist' - just a bit more knowledgeable about the UK when I lived there than you.

                                As for 2 arriving and 1 leaving that has never occured in UK but I would rather have their problem of an increasing population that the one we have here where demographic decline is serious issue.

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