EU break-up no longer unthinkable

[Pedicabby]

Im looking forward to Mays take on brexit on tuesday , the gossip is saying shes going for hard exit .

I'm kinda excited by this. The vote was to leave so lets get the ball rolling!

[Doktor]

Didn't say that.......But you clearly are very happy that people who would be assembling, manufacturing in the West are now stocking shelves at Walmart. Whoopi do progress...Not!!

I am very happy that I pay $400 instead of $2000 for a PC. Yippie.

[Toby]

I am very happy that I pay $400 instead of $2000 for a PC. Yippie.

https://www.google.es/search?q=short...obile&ie=UTF-8

[Doktor]

https://www.google.es/search?q=short...obile&ie=UTF-8

Well...

[Toby]

Well...

[ATTACH]43107[/ATTACH]

And that means what exactly? ..You personally benefit while your neighbour gets to stack shelves....

[tankie]

I'm kinda excited by this. The vote was to leave so lets get the ball rolling!

Yup , abbbbbbbbbbbbbbsaloooooooooooootly ,

[citanon]

America has given too much away (EUROPE too) and got back very little back in return. How the Chinese have been allowed to copy everything under the sun(most of it badly )and allowed to export it to us is verging on criminal. All its done is lower the cost and the quality of manufactured goods....nothing is built to last. It's junk and the Chinese have been allowed to do it..
If you think about it we're regressing in terms of quality.

The situation with China is very complicated. In the early days China focused on producing cheap goods that were not very high quality. These days there is a lot of innovation and they are at points of the value chain.

Over the years, cheap goods from China has improved the lives of the majority of American consumers by lowering prices, but the job loss has also deeply hurt a sizeable minority in a way that has been concentrated in geographical locations, industries and communities, which is especially damaging.

Certainly there needs to be a rebalance in the trading relationship as America and China begin competing on more equal footing across all sectors. Trump is right to work for return of manufacturing to the US for our national interests, but it is unlikely to lead to enormous long term growth in blue collar jobs: not only has the great driving force in China's economy already shifted from foreign exports to domestic infrastructure investment, both countries are losing jobs hand over fist to automation and lower cost regional competitors. These losses are likely to accelerate in many sectors. So, both countries need to find ways to innovate out of the automation-jobloss problem.

I believe the trade negotiations and dealings will be tough but will not escalate into a trade war. I am more worried about a protracted armed conflict in the South China Sea.

It would be an unwise strategic move to move against China pushing them onto Muscovy when the Chinks by and large are on an open offencive and are cooperating in WTO rules (by and large). The real threat to Muscovy is of course not Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltics or (the recent) Belarusian visa liberalisation but the east. China is their problem much more than Europes.

I think these days it's more of Moscow moving into Beijing's arms rather than the other way around. In both population size and economy, Russia is now dwarfed by China. In terms of conventional military strength, even after considerable modernization, Russia's capabilities and, crucially, their ability to sustain a modernized conflict are no match for NATO. The foundation of Russia's superpower-like status is still its strategic arsenal, which is what makes it a mortal danger to the US.

China, on the other hand, is an ascendant power with almost 5X Russia's GDP and a military industrial sector that is in the process of leap frogging Russian and European capabilities. It is the peer competitor to America in the 21st Century.

Thus, Trump is reaching out to Russia not because it's the strongest, but because it's the weaker but more dangerous adversary. China is the stronger but more predictable power. What I fear is a mutual miscalculation with two authoritarian, nationalistic, populist leaders at the helm.

[Doktor]

And that means what exactly? ..You personally benefit while your neighbour gets to stack shelves....

What you advocate is socialism. Should the Government employ my neighbor so he will be excluded from the hard work of stacking shelves? Should I pay 4x more, so he can have a better paid job?

[Toby]

What you advocate is socialism. Should the Government employ my neighbor so he will be excluded from the hard work of stacking shelves? Should I pay 4x more, so he can have a better paid job?

I am no more a socialist than you. I have no internationalist beliefs either. I believe in looking after my own. Which I would say is more of a social conscience. Can't say as I understand the globalisation agenda long term. As all it seems to be doing is driving wages and living standards down. In the last 10 years especially We're all working harder for less with the goal posts moving further away. Meanwhile the top 5 % get richer beyond belief.
As Citanon just said things need rebalancing and not just with China

[Toby]

The situation with China is very complicated. In the early days China focused on producing cheap goods that were not very high quality. These days there is a lot of innovation and they are at points of the value chain.

Over the years, cheap goods from China has improved the lives of the majority of American consumers by lowering prices, but the job loss has also deeply hurt a sizeable minority in a way that has been concentrated in geographical locations, industries and communities, which is especially damaging.

Certainly there needs to be a rebalance in the trading relationship as America and China begin competing on more equal footing across all sectors. Trump is right to work for return of manufacturing to the US for our national interests, but it is unlikely to lead to enormous long term growth in blue collar jobs: not only has the great driving force in China's economy already shifted from foreign exports to domestic infrastructure investment, both countries are losing jobs hand over fist to automation and lower cost regional competitors. These losses are likely to accelerate in many sectors. So, both countries need to find ways to innovate out of the automation-jobloss problem.

I believe the trade negotiations and dealings will be tough but will not escalate into a trade war. I am more worried about a protracted armed conflict in the South China Sea.



I think these days it's more of Moscow moving into Beijing's arms rather than the other way around. In both population size and economy, Russia is now dwarfed by China. In terms of conventional military strength, even after considerable modernization, Russia's capabilities and, crucially, their ability to sustain a modernized conflict are no match for NATO. The foundation of Russia's superpower-like status is still its strategic arsenal, which is what makes it a mortal danger to the US.

China, on the other hand, is an ascendant power with almost 5X Russia's GDP and a military industrial sector that is in the process of leap frogging Russian and European capabilities. It is the peer competitor to America in the 21st Century.

Thus, Trump is reaching out to Russia not because it's the strongest, but because it's the weaker but more dangerous adversary. China is the stronger but more predictable power. What I fear is a mutual miscalculation with two authoritarian, nationalistic, populist leaders at the helm.

Very valid thanks

[Markobee]

I'm kinda excited by this. The vote was to leave so lets get the ball rolling!

Think May will say that we are prepared to leave the single market if the EU stick to the freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. You have to open the negotiations that way. Sterling will fall again.

[zara]

Think May will say that we are prepared to leave the single market if the EU stick to the freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. You have to open the negotiations that way. Sterling will fall again.

And the Footsie 100 will go up as a result. You can't be a member of the Internal Market with out a single court of arbitration, it just couldnt be made to work. The UK voted for Belarus so that's the model were getting.

[Toby]

They (EU.) need London. Without it ...it's GAME OVER!

[Doktor]

I am no more a socialist than you. I have no internationalist beliefs either. I believe in looking after my own. Which I would say is more of a social conscience. Can't say as I understand the globalisation agenda long term. As all it seems to be doing is driving wages and living standards down. In the last 10 years especially We're all working harder for less with the goal posts moving further away. Meanwhile the top 5 % get richer beyond belief.
As Citanon just said things need rebalancing and not just with China

Hit the streets, it's not something your country can't do, tho it's something you might have forgotten by now.

[Toby]

Hit the streets, it's not something your country can't do, tho it's something you might have forgotten by now.

Why would I want to hit the streets? I'm talking in general about the unskilled disenfranchised. ..which thankfully isn't me. Call it empathy!