Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Burkini

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Burkini


    Why should France accept the burkini? Its time to debate integration head-on

    By
    Muriel Demarcus





    30 August 2016 ē 1:36pm



    The burkini ban in my home country (I am a French woman living in London) has made headlines for most of August. Despite the fact that it has eventually been overturned by the highest French court, the debate is far from over. Journalists have had a field day mocking what they see as an attack against personal freedoms, and keep mentioning that the rightwing in France still supports the ban. What a simplistic view of the situation!

    According to various polls, two thirds of the French population supported the ban, and this included the socialist French Prime Minister, Manuel Valls, who famously said that that the full-body swimsuit symbolised the enslavement of women. So what is this really about? I got tired of reading analysis that, in my view, only gave a partial side of the issue, so here is my (very French) take on it.




    Internet Pranksters Carry Out Burkini Ban Social Experiment on British Beach Internet Pranksters Carry Out Burkini Ban Social Experiment on British Beach Play! 02:17






    First of all, France is a secular country. Obviously, France is not the only Western country to insist on the separation of church and state Ė but I believe that it does so more militantly than any other. To an extent, you could say that secularism is the closest thing we French have to a state religion. It underpinned the French Revolution and has been a foundation of the country's progressive thought for centuries. The law of separation meant strict official neutrality in religious affairs. The Republic has always recognised individuals, rather than groups: this means that you are supposed to be French first, then Muslim, or Catholic, or whatever your religion or ethnic minority might be. You therefore need to comply with the law even if it goes against your religious beliefs, because secularism prevails in all circumstances. Although it can be carried to extremes that other countries donít understand, this view of citizenship is fundamentally non-discriminatory and inclusive. Itís all about finding a common ground, whatever your religion. Burkini bans must be viewed in this context, and are nothing new.

    Rightly or wrongly, French citizens are scared of the Islamisation of their society. Obviously the latest attacks in Nice have further polarised an already divided population. The population is still traumatised, and believes that things have become worse over the last decade or so: people see more veiled women on the street, and are shocked to see a few niqabs or burkas from time to time, despite a full ban. This is compounded by the fact that young women are more and more targeted by some members of the Muslim community on the issue of modesty. For instance, last year in Reims a young woman sunbathing in a public park was set upon by a gang of teenage girls. They objected to her bikini, and the townís authorities were fast to insist there was no religious aspect to the attack. Nobody believed them.



    I belong to a generation that never saw a burkini or a full-body swimsuit at the beach before this summerís events. This is clearly a new occurrence. The French also are shocked to learn that France is now home to thousands of Islamic radicals. Citizens feel that enough ground has been ceded to minorities in general, and to the Muslim minorities in particular. They think that things have now come to a head, and learned the hard way that political correctness doesnít work. Furthermore, the French donít understand why their women should cover up when they visit some Muslim country, but let women wear a veil or a burkini when they visit France. In short, they donít understand why they should compromise when other countries donít. Itís all about "my country, my rules".

    Then again, I keep reading that the burkini is empowering for Muslim women who wouldnít be able to go to the beach otherwise. I am struggling with such a point. Just look at the 1950s and 1960s photos of women in modern, comfortable clothes in Afghanistan or Egypt. They clearly were not forced to succumb to the new wave of stricter Islamic dress code. What changed? Why should women suddenly cover up? Islam seems to have been hijacked, and women are, once again, the first hostages. Why should women sympathise with the hijackers? Isnít this a classic case of Stockholm syndrome?





    A black and white photograph of Egyptian leader Gamal Abdul Nasser with his family in the 1960s. He and his sons are wearing standard mens' suits while his daughters and wife wear mid-length skirts, flats and blouses
    Egyptian leader Gamal Abdul Nasser with his family in the 1960s Credit: AFP/Getty




    And whatís next? Should we also allow FGM to be respectful of different cultural practices? What about polygamy? In short, Western societies need to define whatís acceptable for them, and whatís not. There is a need to draw a line, and maybe the French have drawn it at the burkini. Is it futile? Maybe. But at least a social debate is starting. Itís a debate that societies simply canít avoid forever. Whether we like it or not, society must have a clear set of "inclusiveness principles", and itís probably better to face the issue rather than ignore it.

    Donít get me wrong, if covering up was simply a matter of personal style I would be all for it. But letís be honest: itís fairly easy to see whether women cover up for religious reasons or not (for starters women would get a hat, not a veil). What makes me angry is when I am out in blistering heat, and I see a family at the beach with kids in bathing suits, the dad in swimming trunks, and the mum covered in black from head to toe. Itís modest and itís for religious reasons, but those reasons clearly seem oppressive and unfair. I canít understand why a husband would want his wife to wear this. And donít even try to swim in such an attire.




    In the end, the burkini and some other Islamic dresses are less innocuous than they seem. It has to do with an explicit inequality between genders, which is unacceptable under French law. Letís face it: we already have far too many of such inequalitiesÖSo why should the French accept this one? And letís not forget that Syrian women burnt burqas in celebration after being freed from Isil. In the meantime, in France, more Muslim women are peer-pressured to wear the veil or the burkini. This seems rather counter-intuitive.

    In conclusion, itís time to go back, understand and reinforce the principles that underpin our democracies. Integration is a two-way street. Was the ban the best way to deal with the issue? Probably not. But I sincerely hope that it will start a much-needed social debate, in France and anywhere else.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...bate-integrat/
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  • #2
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/30/europe...n-burkini-ban/
    French mayor on burkini ban: They must accept our way of life



    By Sheena McKenzie and Antonia Mortensen, CNN


    Updated 10:54 AM ET, Tue August 30, 2016

    Advertisement


    (CNN) — The mayor of a seaside town on the French Riviera is sticking by his town's burkini ban, telling beachgoers, "if you don't want to live the way we do, don't come."

    "You have to behave in the way that people behave in the country that accepted you, and that is it," Cogolin Mayor Marc Etienne Lansade told CNN.



    "If you are accepted in Rome -- do like Romans do," he said, adding, "go in Saudi Arabia and be naked and see what will happen to you."

    Lansade, of the right-wing National Front political party, is maintaining the ban despite a ruling by France's highest administrative court that mayors do not have the right to outlaw burkinis.

    He's not alone. Several French mayors are also enforcing their bans in the face of Friday's ruling, which concerned the nearby town of Villeneuve-Loubet although it could affect cities around the country.




    Burkini ban suspended by French court






    Corsica burkini ban Gorani segment_00011424




















    Watch this video





    Burkini ban suspended by French court 01:18








    Burning issue of the summer

    The ruling came after more than 30 French towns banned the burkini, a swimsuit which covers the whole body except for the face, hands and feet and is worn mostly by Muslim women.

    Officials have said the ban on the outfit was a response to growing concerns about radical Islamic terrorism. Last month, a truck rampage killed more than 80 people in Nice, and attackers stabbed an 86-year-old priest in northern France.

    But human rights activists argue that burkini bans are illegal and that efforts to outlaw the garment are Islamophobic.


    More court cases to follow?










    <strong>Niqab: </strong>The full-face veil exposes only the eyes. A Palestinian bride in Jericho wears this one.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Niqab: The full-face veil exposes only the eyes. A Palestinian bride in Jericho wears this one.


    Hide Caption

    4 of 6




    <strong>Hijab:</strong> The scarf worn tightly around the head and neck does not cover the face. It is the most common Islamic head covering. This Indonesian girl is shopping for a hijab in Yogyakarta.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Hijab: The scarf worn tightly around the head and neck does not cover the face. It is the most common Islamic head covering. This Indonesian girl is shopping for a hijab in Yogyakarta.


    Hide Caption

    5 of 6




    <strong>Chador:</strong> The full-body black garment leaves the face exposed. These Iranian women are wearing chadors at a political meeting in Tehran.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Chador: The full-body black garment leaves the face exposed. These Iranian women are wearing chadors at a political meeting in Tehran.


    Hide Caption

    6 of 6




    Do you know the difference between a hijab and a niqab? How about a burqa and a chador? Click through to read about the different types of headscarves some Muslim women wear.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Do you know the difference between a hijab and a niqab? How about a burqa and a chador? Click through to read about the different types of headscarves some Muslim women wear.


    Hide Caption

    1 of 6




    <strong>Burkini:</strong> The full-body swimsuit worn by Muslim women leaves only the face, hands and feet exposed. Here a woman in a burkini wades in the water with a child at Ghar El Melh beach in Tunisia.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Burkini: The full-body swimsuit worn by Muslim women leaves only the face, hands and feet exposed. Here a woman in a burkini wades in the water with a child at Ghar El Melh beach in Tunisia.


    Hide Caption

    2 of 6




    <strong>Burqa:</strong> This full-body garment has a mesh over the eyes. The burqa is widely used in Afghanistan and was required under the Taliban. These Afghan women are shopping in Herat.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Burqa: This full-body garment has a mesh over the eyes. The burqa is widely used in Afghanistan and was required under the Taliban. These Afghan women are shopping in Herat.


    Hide Caption

    3 of 6




    <strong>Niqab: </strong>The full-face veil exposes only the eyes. A Palestinian bride in Jericho wears this one.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Niqab: The full-face veil exposes only the eyes. A Palestinian bride in Jericho wears this one.


    Hide Caption

    4 of 6




    <strong>Hijab:</strong> The scarf worn tightly around the head and neck does not cover the face. It is the most common Islamic head covering. This Indonesian girl is shopping for a hijab in Yogyakarta.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Hijab: The scarf worn tightly around the head and neck does not cover the face. It is the most common Islamic head covering. This Indonesian girl is shopping for a hijab in Yogyakarta.


    Hide Caption

    5 of 6




    <strong>Chador:</strong> The full-body black garment leaves the face exposed. These Iranian women are wearing chadors at a political meeting in Tehran.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Chador: The full-body black garment leaves the face exposed. These Iranian women are wearing chadors at a political meeting in Tehran.


    Hide Caption

    6 of 6




    Do you know the difference between a hijab and a niqab? How about a burqa and a chador? Click through to read about the different types of headscarves some Muslim women wear.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Do you know the difference between a hijab and a niqab? How about a burqa and a chador? Click through to read about the different types of headscarves some Muslim women wear.


    Hide Caption

    1 of 6




    <strong>Burkini:</strong> The full-body swimsuit worn by Muslim women leaves only the face, hands and feet exposed. Here a woman in a burkini wades in the water with a child at Ghar El Melh beach in Tunisia.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Burkini: The full-body swimsuit worn by Muslim women leaves only the face, hands and feet exposed. Here a woman in a burkini wades in the water with a child at Ghar El Melh beach in Tunisia.


    Hide Caption

    2 of 6




    <strong>Burqa:</strong> This full-body garment has a mesh over the eyes. The burqa is widely used in Afghanistan and was required under the Taliban. These Afghan women are shopping in Herat.


    Photos: Burqa, hijab, niqab: What's what?

    Burqa: This full-body garment has a mesh over the eyes. The burqa is widely used in Afghanistan and was required under the Taliban. These Afghan women are shopping in Herat.


    Hide Caption

    3 of 6
    .









    05 muslim headscarves explainer
    07 muslim headscarves explainer Burkini
    06 muslim headscarves explainer burqa
    01 muslim headscarves explainer niqab
    02 muslim headscarves explainer hijab
    04 muslim headscarves explainer chador.









    The Collective Against Islamophobia in France, one of the plaintiffs in the burkini case, plans to sue each municipality maintaining the ban on the full-length swimsuit.

    "These mayors don't want to lose face in front of extreme-right voters," Marwan Muhammad, the group's president, told CNN.

    "The CCIF will methodically remind them of the law."

    But Mayor Lansade intends to enforce the ban until September 15, adding that the burkini is "humiliating for the women that are wearing them."

    "I don't think that many of them do that (wear a burkini) because they want to -- but because they have to," he told CNN. "We have to protect those people."


    Ruling divides opinion

    In France, opinion is divided between those who see the laws as an infringement on religious freedom and those who view the Islamic dress as inconsistent with France's rigorously enforced secularism.

    Amnesty International Europe Director John Dalhuisen was one of many human rights activists who praised last week's ruling.




    We have to protect those people

    Mayor of Cogolin, Marc Etienne Lansade

    "By overturning a discriminatory ban that is fueled by and is fueling prejudice and intolerance, today's decision has drawn an important line in the sand," Dalhuisen said in a statement Friday.

    Meanwhile, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls and former French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who plans to run again for the nation's top job, have supported the bans.

    Opinion: Why France is wrong on burkini ban

    Valls called the burkini a "symbol of the enslavement of women," and Sarkozy said wearing it was a "provocation."
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

    Comment


    • #3
      In my opinion, the Burkini is silly and stupid.

      On the other hand, banning it seems to be kind of extreme.

      Meh, France banned the wearing of burka in public but I hear some Muslim women still wear them in public all the time without reprecussions so I can only conclude this is another publicity stunt by the politicans to show the public that "they are doing something".

      Comment


      • #4
        I would focus more on ridiculing and less on banning. Maybe point out the irony that in the "religion of peace" Allah proposes to solve the problem of roving eye by focusing on the harassed instead of the harasser.
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • #5
          The message should be loud and clear. Fit in or fuck off.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

          Comment


          • #6
            Click image for larger version

Name:	Nuns-on-beach-640x480.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	72.3 KB
ID:	1469256

            Ban one, ban all.
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's their country. They are what (?) "sisters of the church"? From a catholic school? Burkhini and burqa is a security risk, and is not worn by just some "Sisters of Allah", but by almost every woman. That is a symbol of oppression, personally I find it discriminatory that a lady in the road can see me, but I can't. Also, people who can't live by the code of France shouldn't move there.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • #8
                Burkini is not the same as a Burqa

                Its more or less a swimsuit version of a Hijab - open face etc.... in fact its more or less equiv to going for a swim in a nuns "habit"
                The Burkini is an Australian womens swimsuit design that was created by a muslim woman for other muslim women who were modest to be able to go to the beach - its got nothing to do with fundamentalist muslims who wear the Burqa

                Its a marketing name
                Last edited by gf0012-aust; 01 Sep 16,, 00:51. Reason: fixed definition
                Linkeden:
                http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
                http://cofda.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  It's their country.
                  I believe the woman was a citizen of France, so it's her country, too.

                  Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  They are what (?) "sisters of the church"? From a catholic school? Burkhini and burqa is a security risk, and is not worn by just some "Sisters of Allah", but by almost every woman. That is a symbol of oppression,
                  Yep they are nuns, why no bikini for them? Poor oppressed women who are told what to wear.

                  Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  personally I find it discriminatory that a lady in the road can see me, but I can't. Also, people who can't live by the code of France shouldn't move there.
                  I feel your pain, she seems hot.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	vicky-harvey-gsxr31.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	122.2 KB
ID:	1469259
                  Last edited by Doktor; 31 Aug 16,, 06:36.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    It's their country. They are what (?) "sisters of the church"? From a catholic school? Burkhini and burqa is a security risk, and is not worn by just some "Sisters of Allah", but by almost every woman. That is a symbol of oppression, personally I find it discriminatory that a lady in the road can see me, but I can't. Also, people who can't live by the code of France shouldn't move there.
                    Conform or be cast away, your individual identity be damned. It's not even a question of your identity, just your dressing sense. Talk about fashion policing!
                    Last edited by DarthSiddius; 31 Aug 16,, 15:02.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      I believe the woman was a citizen of France, so it's her country, too.
                      Yep they are nuns, why no bikini for them? Poor oppressed women who are told what to wear.
                      Let's liberate women who are oppressed (because they are forced to cover themselves up) by forcing them to not cover themselves. Sound logic there lol!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        At a glance: Burqa, Niqab and Hijab

                        http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...iqab-and-hijab
                        Linkeden:
                        http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
                        http://cofda.wordpress.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
                          Let's liberate women who are oppressed (because they are forced to cover themselves up) by forcing them to not cover themselves. Sound logic there lol!
                          If logic fails, use force. If using force fails, use a bigger hammer.
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
                            Conform or be cast away, your individual identity be damned. It's not even a question of your identity, just your dressing sense. Talk about fashion policing!

                            dumm de dumm de doo .

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	14079978_1293295380694077_8623302661111750221_n.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	1469261

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tankie View Post
                              dumm de dumm de doo .

                              [ATTACH]42039[/ATTACH]
                              Think about the UV protection it offers.
                              Last edited by DarthSiddius; 01 Sep 16,, 17:06.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X