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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostMy question is if Cameron will be 2 for 2 in breaking up the EU and the UK when the Scots vote themselves out. Will Northern Ireland go as well?Originally posted by Albany Rifles View PostWhat about Northern Ireland? they voted to stay EU as well. Might this reignite a unification fight?
Brexit has surely sundered the United Kingdom, Scotland voted 62-38 in favour of remain and a second referendum is very likely there, i don't think anyone would be surprised if the Scots go it on their own at this point.
Nortern Ireland could be well the most severely impacted region in the UK due to Brexit. The region receives heavy peace-based funding from the EU and the farming sector is heavily supported by the EU. I expect there could be disturbances there, but I don't think we will see any return to significant violence, the appetite isn't there anymore I hope.
It's very difficult to say at this point, but I am doubtful there will be any border poll, as being requested by Sinn Fein (main nationalist-catholic party). Although a Scottish vote makes it harder to resist. Northern Ireland as a whole voted to remain, 55 to 45 I think. Nationalists parties mostly campaigned to remain, unionists mostly to leave.
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Originally posted by YellowFever View Post",,yella ,,bow down n bring vodka heheh"
I was applauding the fact you more than earned the right to vote, you wanker.
Not that you earned a bow from me or the right for me to bring you vodka. :PLast edited by tankie; 24 Jun 16,, 22:27.
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Originally posted by tankie View Postpppppfffffffffftttttttt , fibber . im not sure i can get through this day now ,,ive ruined the UK and the chances of others to be ruled by unelected dictators , and now you name calling me ,,and me a senior citizen , you shithouse , xx
The offer to make the UK the fifty-first state is still open, tank. :P
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Originally posted by citanon View PostThe fundamental issue here is that the EU governing bodies and institutions they are structured are insufficiently democratic to be a true federal government for Europe. Originally this was to protect national interests but over the course of more recent years the bureaucrats governing the EU has taken advantage to enact regulations and policies and grab power without being responsive to the concerns of the citizens of member countries. In other words the EU has gone rogue and cannot be sustained in its current structure.
Already the Eurocrats are closing ranks to protect the EU's authority but they are doing so in a bubble. The national government leaders of France and Germany are already abandoning them and the sharks are circling. At the end if the day if the EU is to survive the entire crop of current EU leaders will have to go and the governance structure will need to be fundamentally reformed.
In the long run this vote will be good for both Britain and Europe.
The vote was swung on anti-immigration rhetoric. A proxy to the real issue and an issue that decided an issue it should never have decided, for all the wrong reasons. If I have gauged people right today I have met in Ireland, and despite all the anti-EU sentiment in recent years due to the EU's role in our unfair bailout in propping up Eurozone banking, people are not impressed with Brexit. Europe is not happy. But the UK have utilised their democratic right, and in this instance, as most, that's more important in itself than using it to make the right decision.
Perhaps we should have seen in coming. Trump achieved what everyone said he could not, nobody expected Brexit. Both have the same root cause, anti-immigration sentiment that has brought in enough new voters to tip the balance. And regions that historically suffered heavy losses in jobs with traditional industrial based economies (free trade). In the case of Brexit, england's north and even Wales. Clinton beware, Trump thinks he can sweep the midwest all the way to the Washington, might be time to stop underestimating the divide in our societies on how we view and handle the people who wish to join the western world.
I think the fact the Remain campaign thought they had it won depressed turnout, while the Leave had an opposite boost, may have been the key in reversing the polls. I heard that the Leave regions basically had bigger turnout than anyone expected, as opposed to winning new regions they were forecasted to lose.
Has anyone heard anything on potential fallout in Gibraltar?Last edited by tantalus; 24 Jun 16,, 23:16.
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Preventing war in Europe depends on two relationships; Germany and France and Germany and Muscovy. The point is to keep the Germans onside. This is now less likely - as well as the continuation of EU sanctions etc - as a result of this disaster.
Actually facts... you think I want to see a worse war? Tankie's generation have potentially endangered mine and the younger one. They have almost certainly destroyed the UK. Even that idiot Farage was breaking promises asap "It was a mistake to say we could spend more on the NHS"...Who is the next PM? Boris Johnson? Are you kidding???? Is the PM job exclusively for the Bullingdon Club - people who wreck restaurants and who's parents pay? Now they want their children to pay too?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...e-brexit-vote/
By Lauren Razavi June 24 at 3:34 PM
Lauren Razavi is a feature writer specializing in business, technology and innovation stories. She lives in Norwich, England.
The last time Britain had a referendum on its E.U. membership, back in 1973, the parents of my generation weren’t even old enough to vote. Being European has always been a given for us; most people my age had never questioned or doubted the future of U.K.-E.U. relations until this referendum campaign began. And why would we? Most of us recognize that we have more in common with young people in Spain or the Netherlands than we do with the older folks who share our British nationality.
....
There are those of us who grew up with the Internet, and those whose lives go largely unaffected by anything digital or global in nature. We’ve grown up believing in a future that transcends national borders because we experience that world in our work, interests and social lives online. Today, the future we imagined was stolen from us.
....
Over the course of a single night, baby boomers have rejected expert opinion and torn apart my generation’s future. Why? Because a vague notion of making our country “great again,” combined with an infectious hysteria about immigration, was enough to convince them that things have to change. They were so convinced, in fact, that they were happy to vote for Leave without any definition of what “great” looks like, and no road map to actually achieving it.
....
If the conversations I’ve had today are anything to go by, the next big decision for baby boomers will be how to pay for their pensions when my generation pack up their bags to abandon the sinking ship that the U.K. has just become.
That stupidity shown by those outraged over the outcome, supports that it was probably for the best.Last edited by troung; 25 Jun 16,, 02:31.To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
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Originally posted by snapper View PostAnd the US will wait for another Pearl Harbour courtesy of China before it commits to a European war, which as I say is now more likely than it was previously. Putin, the Iranian Ayatollahs and the Kim idiot are laughing. Some of us are already at war.In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Leibniz
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Coming in a bit late since I was on the road since before the vote... a couple random observations from Germany:
1)
My state's industry mourns the death of our sixth-largest export customers.
My state's government's answer was to fly the European flag over government building today.
2)
Local public radio ran an interesting opinion piece today on how we're better off without Britain and their eastern expansion policies given those were solely aimed at destroying the EU.
Another opinion piece (different channel) instead called for an end to German governance of the European Union while calling for a European Republic now that we got rid of the biggest nay-sayer.
Social Democrats at German national and EU level pulled a position paper today that was already prepared for the occasion. Authored by German SPD leader Sigmar Gabriel (German vice chancellor) and EU S&D front man Martin Schulz (president of the EU parliament). It's mostly about getting rid of nationalist-driven non-democratic interference in European-wide politics and establishing clear definitions of sovereign powers ceded to the EU. And more economic integration.
There's a counter-position from EU parliament S&D leader Piatelli from Italy though. Mostly embedding the Southern European demands for an end to austerity and higher debt ceilings.
3)
Not just Scotland and Ireland. Gibraltar? No, seriously, i've heard people discussing a (rather imminent) breakup of the United Kingdom as a whole in earnest today here. Along with gloating that Scottish accession once independent would be a matter of months given they already fulfill the requirements (except for being an independent nation).
4)
The most-played song on radio here yesterday was The Clash, Should I Stay or Should I Go.
The most-played song on radio here today was Andrea Bocelli, Time to say Goodbye.
5)
Cameron really screwed the UK with that speech. Can't say it any other way.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostAnd the US will wait for another Pearl Harbour courtesy of China before it commits to a European war, which as I say is now more likely than it was previously. Putin, the Iranian Ayatollahs and the Kim idiot are laughing. Some of us are already at war.Chimo
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Oh, forgot one above. Translated quote from our parliamentary president, which I rather like (and apparently about everyone else in Germany too):
Great Britain has determined to leave the European Union. Despite that the sun rose again today. And while one of those two is unfortunate the other is reassuring.
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The odd thing about this vote ? more anxiety outside the uk than within. So the result is natural but not really a resounding win. It would have been similar if the numbers were reversed.
Looked for talks on consequences of brexit but most were against the idea. The american ones mostly, if europe weakens the US gets drawn in. This is not fear mongering but a statement of fact i was told. As you can expect think tankers unanimously against the idea.
Found one, its over a week old, where they talk about the day after from the IISS, interesting listen to Francois.
First order effects, little. Second order and knock on thereafter, unpredictable. Food to become more expensive in the short term. EU to teach the brits a lesson to discourage the others but this remains to be seen.
Economy not as big a problem. Political, now this one is the bombshell.
We wish the Falkands, Gibraltar, N.Ireland all the best.
The remain camp is London's domination of the rest. The leave vote shows that rest of the country is not London.
Since the 17th century the Uk has been trying to engage with Europe without being dominated, guess this will continue.Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Jun 16,, 01:36.
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