Brexit

[snapper]

Hi Snapper, Agreed on the house of Lords.
When the UK joined the EEC it was to trade in an open market. That is how it was sold to the British public. We never voted for political union. Our politicians know this. Ted Heath if he were alive should be tried for treason!

This still does not reply to the most important question; what is best for the UK right now? What is best for Europe as a whole? (Because whether British people like it or not the geography isn't going to change in a hurry). What is best for the concept of the 'west' and the liberties and freedom of speech etc that we currently enjoy - and sometimes are abused - when they are under real assault? In case you hadn't noticed there is a war in a Europe and an assault of migrants.

Economically it is clear that free access to the EU market is a necessity for Britain - doing free trade deals with the rest of the world could take years and though it could certainly be done in time all the time the UK would be weaker economically the debt to GDP rising, as the new Government since the vote has done but full time for 10 or 20yrs is not possible. I am afraid that George Osbourne was right and getting a surplus and paying down the debt was wisdom - it has to be done sometime and the larger the deficit the more painful it will be. Hold on to your pensions.

So suppose the UK retains free access to the single market and somehow manages to curtail the free movement of people rules that are part of it? (Yes I know they have said they will not accept this - and for good reasons - but they have important reasons to keep the UK in the single market as well). Then you will end up paying in - for access - but with no say on the mad ideas they come up with... Pay without say when you had pay and say (and on some issues veto) does not seem a good choice to me; I'd stick with the pay and say where at least I can stop things.

Geo-politically it is frankly dangerous to Britain and Europe as a whole. "Splendid Isolation" from Europe without an Empire (as in Lord Salisbury's time) is no longer possible even if it were wise, which it was not then. You are leaving the Krauts to have a free run and conceding the whole damn lot before the first innings is out. The dangers of a new Ribbentrop - Molotov deal are real - look at North Stream 2 and where Gerhard Shroeder is now (who gave the German financial guarantee to North Stream 1 weeks before leaving office) - you think the UK won't be effected? That the yanks will always bail the UK out? They have other problems with China as well now. Within the EU could have a say on such things - outside none but yet should the worst happen it will come for you and destroy precisely those liberties you claim to uphold.

Sure I know all the philosophical things about not breaking one's principles and I can respect and admire those who take that choice personally when it only them that is effected; Socrates took the hemlock etc... But when dealing with economics and strategic facts one cannot afford to have the principles of Socrates but must act in one's own long term interests. This the UK have - in my opinion - failed to understand.

[tankie]

limpdems win in Richmond by app 1.5k votes , Z Goldsmith should demand it be overturned / rerun / until he gets the result he wants , and of course thats what the libturds wanted , another vote ?????? sarky , me , nooooooooo ?? lol

Now wait for the expected assault .

Her 1st statement after the result was how she would vote on art 50 . Against it

However with the turnout of only 53 percent , once again shows the reason why IMO voting should be compulsary , still thats the democratic result and has to be respected .

[Toby]

Her 1st statement after the result was how she would vote on art 50 . Against it

.

Like pieces on a chess board....

[tankie]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ,,,

Totally torn to bits and B/S excuses , interview stopped as she cant answer , typical libturd wanker . Someone should remind them what dems means in their title .

https://youtu.be/Rn3vuKEgTbs

looking forward to your reply zara .

[zara]

We've had a referendum, We voted leave. Ignore a democratic vote at your peril!

Yawn..

Im not prepared to throw Northern Ireland and Gibraltar and possibly the union with Scotland under a bus for the sake of a slim majority advisary referendum that could not have been won without the lies of leave campaign thank you very much.

[zara]

I read that the by election was caused by the sitting Conservative MP resigning over Heathrow expansion. This fellow Zac Goldsmith, presumably the son of James Goldsmith, is apparently standing as an independent because he opposes the new runway at Heathrow... I always thought Gatwick made more sense on that issue but then Gatwick was closer for me.

It was a sham resignation. The Tories and UKIP both backed him because they knew he couldnt win under the mantle of a party that approved the 3rd runway. He would have voted with the government on everything (except the runway), thats why they didnt stand against him. Luckily the residents of Richmond saw through the sham.

I live in Manchester so the runaways a non-issue for me, but I can certaintly see why the resdidents would oppose it!

[zara]

So suppose the UK retains free access to the single market and somehow manages to curtail the free movement of people rules that are part of it? (Yes I know they have said they will not accept this - and for good reasons - but they have important reasons to keep the UK in the single market as well). Then you will end up paying in - for access - but with no say on the mad ideas they come up with... Pay without say when you had pay and say (and on some issues veto) does not seem a good choice to me; I'd stick with the pay and say where at least I can stop things..

That would be moving from our current state of 'half in the EU' to 'half out of the EU'.
I could live with that :)

[tankie]

Yawn..

Im not prepared to throw Northern Ireland and Gibraltar and possibly the union with Scotland under a bus for the sake of a slim majority advisary referendum that could not have been won without the lies of leave campaign thank you very much.

Slim ????? much much more than the richmond by/election tho .

[zara]

limpdems win in Richmond by app 1.5k votes , Z Goldsmith should demand it be overturned / rerun / until he gets the result he wants , and of course thats what the libturds wanted , another vote ?????? sarky , me , nooooooooo ?? lol

Now wait for the expected assault .

Her 1st statement after the result was how she would vote on art 50 . Against it

However with the turnout of only 53 percent , once again shows the reason why IMO voting should be compulsary , still thats the democratic result and has to be respected .

Lib dems want a vote on the final deal, not a re-run of the referendum. Although in practice Im not sure how that works..
the Article 50 deal only deals with pensions for EU employees, divisions of assets etc. The actual trade deal with Europe will be negotiated (probably) after the 2 year time limit, and will probably take the better part of a decade. I dont know how the EU could seriously invest the energy in negotiating a deal with a country that could just veto it via referendum at the end...

[zara]

Slim ????? much much more than the richmond by/election tho .

3.7% is hardly a landslide. and certaintly no mandate for hard brexit. If remain had won by a slim majority and decided to do a 'hard remain' by joining the Euro and Schegen zone would you feel it was foul play?

[tankie]

3.7% is hardly a landslide. and certaintly no mandate for hard brexit. If remain had won by a slim majority and decided to do a 'hard remain' by joining the Euro and Schegen zone would you feel it was foul play?

And so the fun begins ,,fallon is quoted as saying he wants a full stop to brexit as this by election shows they have a mandate hahahahahahaha ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,did you look at the video zara ??


Based on that logic....Lib/Dems won 49.7% of the vote, while Goldsmith as an Independent won 45.2%, however the combined vote of other parties of 50.3%...shows that Richmond Park does not want a Lib/Dem representative in Parliament..... ergo when is the re run by election going to take place? lolololol

[Toby]

This still does not reply to the most important question; what is best for the UK right now? What is best for Europe as a whole? (Because whether British people like it or not the geography isn't going to change in a hurry). What is best for the concept of the 'west' and the liberties and freedom of speech etc that we currently enjoy - and sometimes are abused - when they are under real assault? In case you hadn't noticed there is a war in a Europe and an assault of migrants.

Economically it is clear that free access to the EU market is a necessity for Britain - doing free trade deals with the rest of the world could take years and though it could certainly be done in time all the time the UK would be weaker economically the debt to GDP rising, as the new Government since the vote has done but full time for 10 or 20yrs is not possible. I am afraid that George Osbourne was right and getting a surplus and paying down the debt was wisdom - it has to be done sometime and the larger the deficit the more painful it will be. Hold on to your pensions.

So suppose the UK retains free access to the single market and somehow manages to curtail the free movement of people rules that are part of it? (Yes I know they have said they will not accept this - and for good reasons - but they have important reasons to keep the UK in the single market as well). Then you will end up paying in - for access - but with no say on the mad ideas they come up with... Pay without say when you had pay and say (and on some issues veto) does not seem a good choice to me; I'd stick with the pay and say where at least I can stop things.

Geo-politically it is frankly dangerous to Britain and Europe as a whole. "Splendid Isolation" from Europe without an Empire (as in Lord Salisbury's time) is no longer possible even if it were wise, which it was not then. You are leaving the Krauts to have a free run and conceding the whole damn lot before the first innings is out. The dangers of a new Ribbentrop - Molotov deal are real - look at North Stream 2 and where Gerhard Shroeder is now (who gave the German financial guarantee to North Stream 1 weeks before leaving office) - you think the UK won't be effected? That the yanks will always bail the UK out? They have other problems with China as well now. Within the EU could have a say on such things - outside none but yet should the worst happen it will come for you and destroy precisely those liberties you claim to uphold.

Sure I know all the philosophical things about not breaking one's principles and I can respect and admire those who take that choice personally when it only them that is effected; Socrates took the hemlock etc... But when dealing with economics and strategic facts one cannot afford to have the principles of Socrates but must act in one's own long term interests. This the UK have - in my opinion - failed to understand.

If the European project had been explained to us (the UK)in a proper manner. We probably wouldn't have voted leave. But it wasn't. Its all been very deceitful from day one.
Security in Europe does not rely on the EU, It relies on NATO. Although I do see the advantage of pooling money for big projects. But that can still be done regardless if we are in or out.
George Osborne was only partly right....Austerity can only take you so far before the economy grinds to a halt. Even he realized the UK requires massive structural investment to keep the wheels turning.
Apart from when that little Austrian corporal was put in charge.The UK is not and has never been isolated...So I totally fail to understand that point.

[zara]

Based on their logic....Lib/Dems won 49.7% of the vote, while Goldsmith as an Independent won 45.2%, however the combined vote of other parties of 50.3%...shows that Richmond Park does not want a Lib/Dem representative in Parliament..... ergo when is the re run by election going to take place?

You seem to be under the illusion that there is going to be a 2nd referendum on leaving the EU... I dont know what you want me to say here

[Toby]

Yawn..

Im not prepared to throw Northern Ireland and Gibraltar and possibly the union with Scotland under a bus for the sake of a slim majority advisary referendum that could not have been won without the lies of leave campaign thank you very much.

Northern Ireland needs to come to a meeting of minds with the Republic as does the Republic with Northern Ireland, its only a matter of time before Ireland is reunited and all the traditions are respected as they should be. Gibraltars population are actually Spanish in the main and now that Franco has gone haven't really got an excuse to carry on this fantasy of being British. The Scots are way too canny to leave the UK. That would be like cutting your legs off due to a bad headache, totally nonsensical.
Do you honestly think that anybody in their right mind took any notice of that ridiculous leave campaign?? lol I'd say 99% of people who voted leave were always going to vote that way. For the simple fact that they were brought up to be British and not ashamed of it, Its only the Liberal Fascists that abhor the British flag!

[Toby]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ,,,

Totally torn to bits and B/S excuses , interview stopped as she cant answer , typical libturd wanker . Someone should remind them what dems means in their title .

https://youtu.be/Rn3vuKEgTbs

looking forward to your reply zara .

lol