Brexit

[zara]

Out of what though? Just the EU? or the EU and the EEA? or the EU, the EEA and the customs union? Are we out of the European Space Agency? What about the Council of Europe?

Noone knows.

[Toby]

Ref Poland ,not to sure about that , but to think for the country who invented tanks and has the best , or had , tank making company,Vickers , it sickening to watch them slowly die while other countries profit , same as British Steel , it surely inherited a crap name with ta ta , there is definitely a stink in the air over brexit though , I voted out but not convinced that now we ever will be ,for all Pm Mays talk , she is still a remainer , but time will tell . ��Ahhh well hopefully Austria will leave and if Lepenn gets in in France then its timber time Ireckon , the house of cards will be over .

Aye very sad, the old Vickers plant is still there in Leeds... Just a shell now though. The 2017 elections within the EU will certainly decide our stand point and approach to Brexit. Could be looking at a completely different political landscape this time next year. We're certainly not on our own in questioning the workings of the EU and its inflexibility and unaccountable set up

[zara]

We're certainly not on our own in questioning the workings of the EU and its inflexibility and unaccountable set up

Commissioners are accountable to the national governments who appoint them and whom we elect. Just like the US secretary of state, defence secretary etc.

[Toby]

Commissioners are accountable to the national governments who appoint them and whom we elect. Just like the US secretary of state, defence secretary etc.

I was referring to the EU accounts which although signed off, are double bent!

[snapper]

The EU commission is an unelected, unaccountable Racket, filled with Europe's failed political class. Living the high life and justifying their existence by creating an endless stream of bureaucratic regulation. None of which they personally suffer.
Luckily, enough of us remember what Great Britain is suppose to stand for and actually had the nerve to vote leave. Unfortunately, many of the younger generation don't understand the national pride felt by previous generations and dismiss them as a bunch of xenophobes at best or closet racists at worst. The internationalist (socialist) agenda at work via the EU is its own enemy, as it has nothing but contempt for its own citizens. I haven't met one Italian, Cypriot/Greek, Pole etc (and I talk to many) that disagrees with the UK leaving, not one. In fact, quite the opposite. They say we've shown real balls! The only people that are complaining about the result in the UK are people who have been doing very nicely out of it while the rest of us have struggled with over regulation...

Hi Toby and a belated welcome to WAB. Your comments above may very be true - in my opinion the financial problems caused by the euro go far deeper than your comments - but even if we accept all this (and let's face similar criticisms could be made of the House of Lords) that is not the point. The point is what is the best course of action for the UK surely... and in deciding that free access to the single market is the critical economic benefit the UK derives from membership. By the way now you have met an Anglo Polish Ukrainian who disagrees.

[Toby]

Hi Toby and a belated welcome to WAB. Your comments above may very be true - in my opinion the financial problems caused by the euro go far deeper than your comments - but even if we accept all this (and let's face similar criticisms could be made of the House of Lords) that is not the point. The point is what is the best course of action for the UK surely... and in deciding that free access to the single market is the critical economic benefit the UK derives from membership. By the way now you have met an Anglo Polish Ukrainian who disagrees.

Hi Snapper, Agreed on the house of Lords.
When the UK joined the EEC it was to trade in an open market. That is how it was sold to the British public. We never voted for political union. Our politicians know this. Ted Heath if he were alive should be tried for treason!

[zara]

Richmond by election today. Think if the Lib dems can win it will represent a chance to water down Brexit or perhaps even stop it.

If they lose though its all over.
If one of the most highly educated and pro-european places in the country (it was 72% remain) won’t get behind the lib dems to oppose Brexit then hardly anywhere will.

[Toby]

Richmond by election today. Think if the Lib dems can win it will represent a chance to water down Brexit or perhaps even stop it.

If they lose though its all over.
If one of the most highly educated and pro-european places in the country (it was 72% remain) won’t get behind the lib dems to oppose Brexit then hardly anywhere will.

We've had a referendum, We voted leave. Ignore a democratic vote at your peril!

[snapper]

Richmond by election today. Think if the Lib dems can win it will represent a chance to water down Brexit or perhaps even stop it.

If they lose though its all over.
If one of the most highly educated and pro-european places in the country (it was 72% remain) won’t get behind the lib dems to oppose Brexit then hardly anywhere will.

I read that the by election was caused by the sitting Conservative MP resigning over Heathrow expansion. This fellow Zac Goldsmith, presumably the son of James Goldsmith, is apparently standing as an independent because he opposes the new runway at Heathrow... I always thought Gatwick made more sense on that issue but then Gatwick was closer for me.

[tankie]

We've had a referendum, We voted leave. Ignore a democratic vote at your peril!

Ho hum lol

[Monash]

We've had a referendum, We voted leave. Ignore a democratic vote at your peril!

Referendums and for that matter elections are simply a snapshot of an electorates opinions, desires or choices at one particular point in time. Those opinions etc can and do shift or change over time. So it's entirely possible the British public's support for Brexit can shift to.

If we follow your logic and assume instead that the 'remain' vote had won then any chance of Britain leaving the EU would be gone, off the table, for ever. That's not now democracy works. Referendum outcomes are not the equivalent of the 10 commandments I.E. the unchanging word of God and in a few years should there be another referendum that reverses the 'out' vote well that would be 'the will of the people' as well.

[Toby]

Referendums and for that matter elections are simply a snapshot of an electorates opinions, desires or choices at one particular point in time. Those opinions etc can and do shift or change over time. So it's entirely possible the British public's support for Brexit can shift to.

If we follow your logic and assume instead that the 'remain' vote had won then any chance of Britain leaving the EU would be gone, off the table, for ever. That's not now democracy works. Referendum outcomes are not the equivalent of the 10 commandments I.E. the unchanging word of God and in a few years should there be another referendum that reverses the 'out' vote well that would be 'the will of the people' as well.

Democracy works when the result is respected by the opposition. If we follow your logic the result of any vote would mean nothing. Which perfectly encapsulates why' leave' won the referendum.

[Toby]

I read that the by election was caused by the sitting Conservative MP resigning over Heathrow expansion. This fellow Zac Goldsmith, presumably the son of James Goldsmith, is apparently standing as an independent because he opposes the new runway at Heathrow... I always thought Gatwick made more sense on that issue but then Gatwick was closer for me.

Mr Goldsmith! I wonder where his allegiances really lie? A by-election has absolute zero to do with the referendum and that country and western Tim Fallon just seems to be trying to out do Corbyn as political twit of the year!

[Toby]

Ho hum lol

I know, but if I keep it simple the penny might drop. I'm not holding my breath though. ;)

[Monash]

Democracy works when the result is respected by the opposition. If we follow your logic the result of any vote would mean nothing. Which perfectly encapsulates why' leave' won the referendum.

The results of any vote has to be respected and all votes have meaning - right up to the point when the next one is held. At that point the results of that new vote become the political reality of the day and the old one becomes....history.

The paraphrase the great Robyn Williams - all governments are like babies diapers - and need to be changed regulatory for exactly the same reason.