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  • tankie
    replied
    Its gonna get worse before it gets better but at least some tories still have a fight in them for democracy , and theres calls the senior judge in the supreme court to quit after his wife tweeted for remaining ,, no con,flict of interest there then .


    The Telegraph
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    Telegraph News
    Heavyweight Brexiteers among 60 Tory MPs to demand clean break from the EU
    The Union flag is seen flapping in the wind in front of one of the faces of the Great Clock atop the landmark Elizabeth Tower that houses Big Ben at the Houses of Parliament
    Leading Tory Eurosceptics have demanded Britain pull out of the single market CREDIT: AFP PHOTO / JUSTIN TALLISJUSTIN TALLIS/AFP/GETTY IMAGES
    Ben Riley-Smith Harry Yorke
    19 NOVEMBER 2016 • 12:26PM
    Sixty Tory MPs including seven ex-Cabinet ministers have demanded Theresa May pulls Britain out of the single market and customs union amid fears her Brexit stance could be watered down.

    Michael Gove, Iain Duncan Smith, John Whittingdale and Theresa Villiers are among the leading Eurosceptics to put their names to the negotiation demand.

    The politicians have gone public through The Telegraph amid concerns that pro-EU figures in the Cabinet are fighting to soften the Government’s Brexit position.

    The Eurosceptics said only the cleanest Brexit can fulfil the country’s referendum call to “untie ourselves from EU shackles and freely embrace the rest of the world”.

    However, critics warned leaving the single market and customs union would establish barriers to trade that were not voted for in the referendum.

    PM: Brexit plans are 'on track'Play! 00:30
    The decision to go public with the call coincides with the relaunch of the European Research Group, a pro-Brexit Tory body that will keep up pressure on the Government.

    It will produce new thinking and policy ideas for Britain’s future after Brexit as well as being a constant reminder to ministers of the strength of Euroscepticism on the Tory backbenches.

    It came as senior Tory MPs called on the Government to drop its appeal to the Supreme Court over whether it has the power to start Brexit talks without a vote from Parliament.

    Ministers are seeking to overturn a High Court ruling that demanded Mrs May get approval from MPs and peers before triggering Article 50, the mechanism for starting Brexit negotiations.

    However many inside the Government are expecting another defeat and there are concerns that the waiting time – a judgment is not due until January – is an unnecessary delay.

    Owen Paterson, a former environment secretary who backed Brexit, joined calls to drop the appeal on Saturday.

    Brexiteers react with fury to "outrageous" court decisionPlay! 01:43
    “I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert on this but ... I wouldn't have a bet on the Government winning this one,” Mr Patterson said, adding it is “not good to have a confrontation with the courts”.

    In a separate development, Labour MPs are under pressure to be more supportive of Brexit after research revealed how many of their constituencies voted to leave the EU.

    Some 137 Labour MPs saw their seats back Brexit in the referendum – more than half the party’s total – according to analysis by the Brexit Alliance think tank.

    Leading figures campaigning to keep close trading links with the EU such as Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, and Yvette Cooper, the former home secretary, saw their constituents overwhelmingly back Brexit.

    There is a major Cabinet split over whether Britain should pull out of the EU single market, a tariff-free trade bloc, and customs union, which allows goods to cross borders without customs checks.

    Boris Johnson, Liam Fox and David Davis – dubbed The Three Brexiteers – are said to be far more open to leaving both than Philip Hammond, the Chancellor.

    Michael Gove, the former justice secretary
    Michael Gove, the former justice secretary CREDIT: ADAM GRAY / SWNS.COM
    Eurosceptics say staying in the single market means continuing to be bound by European Court of Justice judgments while remaining in the customs union all but stops the UK signing free trade deals.

    Number 10 has repeatedly said no decision has been taken and the choice is not “binary”, suggesting it could seek to retain benefits of both agreements while opting out of overall membership.

    In a bid to force the Government’s hand, 60 Tory MPs have backed the statement: "The UK must leave the European Economic Area [EEA] and the Customs Union."

    Seven former Cabinet ministers backed the call including five who served under David Cameron – Mr Gove, Mr Duncan Smith, Mr Whittingdale, Ms Villiers and Mr Patterson – and two who served under John Major: Peter Lilley and John Redwood. Eleven Labour, DUP and Ukip MPs also backed the call.

    John Whittingdale, the former culture secretary
    John Whittingdale, the former culture secretary CREDIT: NICK EDWARD
    Steve Baker, a Tory MP and chairman of the European Research Group, said: “A vote to remain in the EEA or the Customs Union is a vote to be powerless over trade and domestic regulation and therefore poorer than we otherwise can be.

    “The UK is ideally positioned to catalyse a new global trading system which works for everyone by promoting free and fair trade and defending against predatory practices.”

    In a piece for The Telegraph’s website, Suella Fernandes, the Tory MP for Fareham helping run the group, says pulling out of the customs union is the only way to fulfil the Brexit vote.

    “When the British people voted to leave the European Union on 23 June, most of my Parliamentary colleagues and I took it as an instruction to untie ourselves from EU shackles and freely embrace the rest of the world. We now wish to ensure that the will of the people is fulfilled,” she writes.

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  • zara
    replied
    Hes been a life long critic of the EU. His support for remain was so tepid that huge numbers of labour voters thought the party supported leave. He was the first to endorse the referendum results. Hes an anti-globalist. The remain campaign constantly tried to get him to come and support them but they were told 'Jeremy beleives hes compromised enough on Europe. Hes a brexiteer and always has been (as well as marxist and supporter of terrorism) The sooner labour dump him the better.

    There was an EU meeting last night about putting a halt on Turkeys EU accession talks because Erdogan was locking up political prisoners and bringing back the death penalty.

    Boris Johnson was there and he argued that that Turkeys entry should be accelerated!

    After scaring voters about Turkeys accession to the EU during the referendum!! The man is so like Trump – he says anything he wants to, with no consistency. Hes a disgrace

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  • tankie
    replied
    Zara from everything I hear, corbyn was all for remain , he's threatening to block now over the single market , !! He ain't no brexiteer . He's a terrorist supporter tho and a very dangerous guy who in his presentation of his leadership in the labour party will never ever be PM and labour as such will never be in power. IMHO .��

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  • zara
    replied
    Originally posted by tankie View Post
    swings roundabouts , it will go up n down as forces dictate until UK is out and in control , be a while yet tho . haha the wimpdems are saying at least 50 mp,s are goint to vote against sec 50 , have the numnuts not learned anything in the last week ,,Trump just got peeps sacked and it will happen here IMO if its not invoked and quickly .
    It'll be more than 50 cause of the SNP, but they'll never get the 320 or so to stop it, not while arch brexiteer Corbyn runs the labour party.

    The lid dems are in an interesting place - they are hammering all the other parties in the council byelections since the referendum and they gave the Tories a run for their money in Whitney. The Richmond byelection should be interesting.. If they can win that it may be a sign of their revival. As the only centrist party remaining they would have my vote (if I wasnt leaving). And they claim that tens of thousands of moderate Conservatives have joined their ranks since the Tories moved to the far right.

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  • tankie
    replied
    swings roundabouts , it will go up n down as forces dictate until UK is out and in control , be a while yet tho . haha the wimpdems are saying at least 50 mp,s are goint to vote against sec 50 , have the numnuts not learned anything in the last week ,,Trump just got peeps sacked and it will happen here IMO if its not invoked and quickly .
    Last edited by tankie; 14 Nov 16,, 17:29.

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  • zara
    replied
    Apparently our contributions to the EU budget are to go up thanks to the junking of the pound because contributions are set in euros.

    Another spectacular own goal by team Brexit.

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  • zara
    replied
    Originally posted by tankie View Post
    Zara there was no link so it looked like your post was directed at me , my apologies to you , the financial times can go away in short sharp jerky sexual type movement's for their post .��
    Thats alright, the link was at the top. 'A test of British Values'.
    The FT is behind a paywall so I copied the text for those who aren't subscribers.

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  • tankie
    replied
    Zara there was no link so it looked like your post was directed at me , my apologies to you , the financial times can go away in short sharp jerky sexual type movement's for their post .��

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  • zara
    replied
    Originally posted by tankie View Post
    Last post deleted as it does not quantify a response after 2nd thoughts .Your inbox is good enough but not on here . TTFN
    emmmm that's not my inbox, thats an article in the financial times.. and your constantly posting content from the sun and the express so I don't know why your complaining.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Please debate the issue, don't insult or bait the person.

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  • tankie
    replied
    Originally posted by zara View Post
    Brussels has forbidden Dublin to have Brexit talks with the UK government before Article 50 is invoked, let alone Scotland..

    Sturgeon knows this, but she has to be seen to have exausted all options to keep Scotland in the EU before she can call Indyref 2, which is her real goal.
    The dictators have spoken,, have you told Sturgeon , do your patriotic duty to your country , whichever that one is , n you tell her what her real goal is .Gwannn get stuck in there , you tell her .

    Last post deleted as it does not quantify a response after 2nd thoughts .Your inbox is good enough but not on here . TTFN
    Last edited by tankie; 11 Nov 16,, 19:03.

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  • zara
    replied
    A test of British values


    So how much do you love Britain? Do you love it enough to march on the Supreme Court in the hope of intimidating its judges? I mean, the rule of law is all very well but it’s not what our boys died for on the beaches of Normandy, is it? These days we take a more muscular approach. Are you enough of a patriot to put the home addresses of political opponents on the internet and encourage people to turn up outside their house? Have you told at least one eastern European to get the hell out of your country? You haven’t? What kind of patriot are you?

    This is obviously horribly unfair to the majority of decent patriots, but I cannot help noticing how some of the most bellicose British nationalists don’t actually seem to like Britain very much. For all their bellowing, they don’t seem terribly keen on what one might call British values; all those dreary old things like civility, tolerance, understatement, freedom, a sense of humour.

    I’m not talking about the millions who voted for Brexit here. I don’t agree with them but they took a legitimate view and won the day. I’m talking about some of its most prominent political and media cheerleaders. Take Nigel Farage; the former Ukip leader wants 100,000 people to march on the Supreme Court when it hears the appeal on last week’s ruling that a parliamentary vote is necessary to trigger the British exit process. One of the candidates to succeed him as Ukip leader, Suzanne Evans, says judges must be brought under “democratic” control. Yes, absolutely, that’s precisely the British way, because our much-cherished freedoms don’t rely in any way on an independent judiciary. Then there is the former Ukip councillor who wanted the judges’ addresses published so people could “peacefully” protest outside their homes. A few months ago, these self-same demagogues were demanding the primacy of British law.

    There is nothing wrong with lamenting the High Court ruling. It may yet be overturned. But it ought to be possible to do so without wishing to undermine the cornerstone of British freedoms. Not, it seems, if you are the Daily Mail, which denounced the judges as “enemies of the people”, noting especially that one was gay. Not merely gay but an Olympic fencer to boot. I’m sure that must be pertinent; they wouldn’t mention it otherwise. Perhaps it was the combination of homosexuality and fencing that was the issue. If he were a patriot, he would have been a straight wrestler. The Mail has often turned on those who “hate Britain” but judging by its tolerance of other views it does not seem to like it that much itself.

    Some prominent Tories also denounced the judges for upholding the primacy of parliament. One could understand their frustration but to hear them speak you would think the judges had imposed martial law rather than merely require that MPs get a vote on the issue.

    In language and tone, the extreme end of the Brexit leadership has encouraged everything Britain is meant not to be. The language deployed against those with different views is one of paranoia and treason — the same tone we have heard from the Trump team, one that tears down every institution of democracy. It is the sound of bullying, intolerance and intimidation — an approach in which your opponents cannot be just wrong, they must also be evil. One of my favourite stories about Britain, told by the writer AN Wilson, concerns a group of British soldiers captured by the Nazis in 1940 and told to identify any Jews in their ranks. When the commandant lined them up and told every Jew to take three paces forward, the entire group stepped up together. To me, this is the epitome of everything great about Britain. Is this how the Daily Mail or Ukip or the other politicians denouncing foreigners and raging at the judges would behave?

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  • zara
    replied
    Brussels has forbidden Dublin to have Brexit talks with the UK government before Article 50 is invoked, let alone Scotland..

    Sturgeon knows this, but she has to be seen to have exausted all options to keep Scotland in the EU before she can call Indyref 2, which is her real goal.

    Leave a comment:


  • tankie
    replied
    Oh dear o dear o dear hahaha


    Blow for Nicola Sturgeon as Irish reject plea for direct talks over Brexit



    11 hrs ago / Exclusive by Daniel Sanderson , Scottish Political Correspondent / @DanSandersonHT



    NICOLA STURGEON’S drive to protect Scotland’s relationship with the EU has suffered a major blow after Ireland confirmed it would not enter direct talks with Holyrood over her plans.

    Joe McHugh, the Dublin Government’s minister for the Diaspora and Inter- national Development, said formal talks over Brexit would take place only with London, undermining Ms Sturgeon’s aim of directly lobbying other member states.

    The First Minister said in the days after the EU referendum that she would seek to open “immediate discussions with EU institutions and other member states to explore all the possible options to protect Scotland’s place in the EU.”


    Nicola Sturgeon snubs olive branch from Donald Trump and vows to speak out if his behaviour is "abhorrent"
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, FFS hahahaha ,, yea your not havin a golf course .

    The position was later backed by an overwhelming majority of MSPs.

    However, while the Scottish Government has secured meetings with representatives of some European nations, there has been a reluctance on the Continent to subvert usual protocols by agreeing to bilateral talks with a devolved administration while foreign affairs remains reserved to Westminster.

    The Irish minister, speaking during a trade visit to Edinburgh confirmed talks would take place only with the UK Government.

    He backed Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to invite the devolved administrations to feed into the process of agreeing a negotiating position.

    He said: “It’s a UK Government position and what I like about their approach is they’re looking to involve the devolved assemblies. I think that’s important. They’re already doing it, it’s already happening [feeding into a UK process].”

    Read more: Nicola Sturgeon snubs olive branch from Donald Trump and vows to speak out if his behaviour is "abhorrent"

    The Scottish Government is to publish proposals for a bespoke deal with Europe within weeks, in recognition of the strong Remain vote north of the border.

    Refusing to be drawn on how a closer relationship with the EU for Scotland within the UK might be viewed in Ireland, Mr McHugh said: “There’s a mechanism there through London for that. That’s a matter for the Scottish Government.”


    Ms Sturgeon has said the UK Government “cannot get away” with warning of a hard border between England and Scotland post-independence, citing a speech in Belfast by the Brexit Cabinet Minister David Davis in which she said he assured people it would not mean interrupted travel with the Republic of Ireland.

    However, the SNP leader’s assertion has been challenged by academics who believe Ireland is likely to be viewed more sympathetically due to its history of conflict.

    Read more: Nicola Sturgeon snubs olive branch from Donald Trump and vows to speak out if his behaviour is "abhorrent"

    A spokesman for the First Minister said: “We are determined to protect Scotland’s place in Europe, and are doing everything possible to achieve that, through the UK negotiating process while also speaking directly to the EU institutions and other member states, where our approach has been warmly received.”

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  • tankie
    replied
    Originally posted by zara View Post
    Why do you think she hates democracy? She is there to represent Scotland which overwhelming voted to stay in the EU. In fact, one of the strongest arguments that the remain campaign (for Scottish independence, not the EU referendum) gave was that 'Scotlands place in the EU is only guaranteed by remaining in the UK'.

    I know you only care about England and that is what is so upsetting to those of us from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Gibraltar. Brexiteers threw us under a bus - no-one cares about peace in Northern Ireland or the wishes of Scotland and the economic catastrophe that will envelop Gibraltar with Brexit.

    Brexit has broken the United Kingdom and its dissolution will be the likely result.
    She hates anything connected England , anything at all , dont forget zara , people who live all over the UK voted ,out WHY ?? same as Trump in , the people are sick to death of the systems imposed , as for the EU it was illegaly done . riots in USA as democtats / liberals only want democracy when it suits them same as brexit , why would the dissolution of the UK bother you , you want to be european dont you , or S/Irish cit ?? ah well , end of , have a spiffingly fabulous day , and may your gods go with you .
    Last edited by tankie; 11 Nov 16,, 13:03.

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