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  • tantalus
    replied
    Originally posted by astralis View Post

    part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.

    Totally agree.

    That's why I think all you who aren't Massholes like me are a bunch of dickheads.
    Was looking back through this thread as I find the concept of basic income very interesting and given we are post election and trump couldnt help but necro this one when I re-read it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    What about immigrants who come here after the national service period? Let's say someone immigrated here at age 53 and becomes a citizen at 60. Does he not get the basic income?

    Is basic income a "right?" Can one refuse to work for national service and forgo this income? How hard does one have to work? Can one NOT qualify for doing a terrible job?

    Gunnut, simple. You have to go to the public library and read story time for preschoolers or assist in a Headstart program. There is always something you can do. However, if you choose NOT to participate, then no, you get nothing.


    [QUOTE=Doktor;1008727]That no system is perfect.

    Buck, I love your idea, why it is not a reality?[/QUOTE]

    It's all about funding. And, sadly, like most things, it falls into ideology issues.

    I have something teed up and will respond tomorrow with more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doktor
    replied
    Originally posted by drhuy View Post
    and your point is...?
    That no system is perfect.

    Buck, I love your idea, why it is not a reality?

    Leave a comment:


  • drhuy
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    From the late 50s up until the late 80s it was very common for young German men to move to Berlin for a few years to study. Not because universities in Berlin were good. But because as long as they were registered as living in Berlin they could not be conscripted. Once you passed the maximum age for conscription you could register your residence... err, "move" to the West again.
    and your point is...?

    Leave a comment:


  • kato
    replied
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    What about immigrants who come here after the national service period?
    From the late 50s up until the late 80s it was very common for young German men to move to Berlin for a few years to study. Not because universities in Berlin were good. But because as long as they were registered as living in Berlin they could not be conscripted. Once you passed the maximum age for conscription you could register your residence... err, "move" to the West again.

    Leave a comment:


  • gunnut
    replied
    Originally posted by astralis View Post
    ^yeah, everyone thinks they're "above average", right?

    I like the idea of a national work service connected to a basic income. in fact, if I had my druthers there would be a National Service where at the age of 18 or 21 everyone would have to work for say, 18-24 months. at the end of the period, you start getting a basic income that will last the rest of your life.

    if you don't have post-Service plans, you can continue working to add on to the basic income.

    part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.
    What about immigrants who come here after the national service period? Let's say someone immigrated here at age 53 and becomes a citizen at 60. Does he not get the basic income?

    Is basic income a "right?" Can one refuse to work for national service and forgo this income? How hard does one have to work? Can one NOT qualify for doing a terrible job?

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.

    Totally agree.

    That's why I think all you who aren't Massholes like me are a bunch of dickheads.

    Leave a comment:


  • astralis
    replied
    ^yeah, everyone thinks they're "above average", right?

    I like the idea of a national work service connected to a basic income. in fact, if I had my druthers there would be a National Service where at the age of 18 or 21 everyone would have to work for say, 18-24 months. at the end of the period, you start getting a basic income that will last the rest of your life.

    if you don't have post-Service plans, you can continue working to add on to the basic income.

    part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.

    Leave a comment:


  • kato
    replied
    Originally posted by astralis View Post
    precisely because people think "freeloaders".
    Interestingly there's a disconnect in surveys there though. When asked if they themselves would stop working if they got a basic income only 4% answer yes; if asked what problem they'd see with a basic income 43% answer that other people would stop working.

    (EU e28 survey asking 10,000 EU citizens, April 2016; in the same survey 64% answered they'd vote for a basic income while 24% were against)

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    So, here is a thought....universal service. You are already using a bureaucracy to manage the dispensing of funding. So how about if you receive dollars from the government you in turn have to give back. Work in a park, work in a daycare facility, assist orderlies in hospitals or hospice, coach youth hockey. Do something to give back to your community. You have to get up and go to work. There will be some doubters and those who are just incorrigible. But I believe most would do that willingly.

    I wish we would do that today. We desperately need an infrastructure upgrade...how about a new CCC? And it could be administered by military veterans and retirees.

    Leave a comment:


  • astralis
    replied
    from an economic perspective, a basic income is pretty much the most efficient way of executing welfare. but it has extreme difficulty working in a democratic polity precisely because people think "freeloaders".

    Leave a comment:


  • dundonrl
    replied
    if you ever get the chance read David Weber's Honor Harrington series.. it shows how people that receive a basic income (called the dole, in the Honorverse) destroy a Republic..

    Leave a comment:


  • Doktor
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Switzerland rejected basic income in a referendum last weekend.
    Pesky Swiss, don't want to pay higher taxes just to entitle their compatriots to free ride.

    Leave a comment:


  • kato
    replied
    Switzerland rejected basic income in a referendum last weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Officer of Engineers
    replied
    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Need is easy. Lots of government programs are based on need, so there is no need (!) to reinvent the wheel.
    No new bureaucracies are necessary, either. There are already offices that issue checks to those entitled to today's benefits, and making the amount different won't over-burden them.

    Fraud's fraud.
    Enforce the law.
    Gone to the bank this morning and saw 4th generation welfare. Good luck with that.

    Leave a comment:

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