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  • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    That's very true. However, we are not allowed to publicly talk about the ethnicity of those "American gun owners" when we talk about shootings in America....unless they're white, of course. Then it's a "frank discussion about common sense gun control."
    Okay, now you want us to distinguish between different kinds of 'American gun owners'. That can be a bit hard for us outsiders, like when some people say they are different kinds of muslims.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kato View Post
      The average Moroccan is about as Muslim as the average German is Christian. As in once per year, and that's mostly for the food connected to it.

      (P.S.: Just to note in this connection, being Moroccan in Germany doesn't necessarily mean you're an asylum seeker. Much like Turks, Moroccans were brought in as cheap labour back in the 60s and nowadays form a sizable community within Germany. About 160,000-180,000 still with Moroccan nationality, although especially in comparison to Turks the naturalisation rates are pretty high)
      We dont know if the Cologne attacks were perpetrated by Islamic radicals or if that was the main motivation, the numbers do suggest some form of co-ordination though.

      Even if the majority of Moroccans and other muslims in Germany are non religious and peaceful, it doesn't change anything about the danger from the minority who have been radicalized. That is our conundrum.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by InExile View Post
        Okay, now you want us to distinguish between different kinds of 'American gun owners'. That can be a bit hard for us outsiders, like when some people say they are different kinds of muslims.
        Of course it's hard for outsiders to distinguish the different kinds of "American gun owners" when the media never mentions the ethnicity of the shooter unless he's white.

        Look up shootings in Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC, or St. Louis.

        Our media is covering for these "American gun owners" just like German media is covering for the "immigrants."
        Last edited by gunnut; 12 Jan 16,, 21:10.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
          Of course it's hard for outsiders to distinguish the different kinds of "American gun owners" when the media never mentions the ethnicity of the shooter unless he's white.

          Look up shootings in Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC, or St. Louis.

          Our media is covering for these "American gun owners" just like German media is covering for the "immigrants."
          Yes, I hear you. Its unfortunate that law abiding American gun orders have to be hassled with more background checks due to the actions of a minority from a particular ethnicity.

          Its a bit like how some people blame an entire religion for the violent actions of a small minority. The aren't content with just more background checks, they want to ban all people of that religion from the US.

          Comment


          • Seems like Europe is beginning to freefall .

            Denmark and Sweden Add to the Downfall of the Schengen Agreement

            January 11, 2016

            This blog was first posted on Breitbart London.

            It’s the beginning of the New Year, and just days into January the Schengen Zone is under even more strain.

            Just after Sweden announced border controls with Denmark on a major bridge and tunnel link, Denmark has announced it too will implement spot checks on its border with Germany. It is all too clear restrictions must be put into place to protect the citizens of the European Union’s Member States. However, those at the top-table in Brussels still refuse to accept this.

            Somehow, alarmed by the restrictions aimed at controlling more than a million migrants who have entered Europe since the start of last summer, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s German government has ‘warned’ Europe’s Schengen Zone is “in danger”.

            Constantly rising migrant figures have little chance of slowing down anytime soon. It will only be a matter of months until the good weather returns in Europe, and the British Government will be silently dreading the migrant numbers increasing even more.

            David Cameron and his government are panicking. They know the migrant issue will be a top priority for men and women on the doorsteps in Britain come the time of the EU Referendum.

            It makes absolute sense for us to leave the EU and protect ourselves from such vast numbers of unmonitored people. If we are out of the EU, we would be in complete control over our own immigration system and can vet anyone wanting to come and live in Britain.

            In 2015, Angela Merkel celebrated 10 years in power as the Chancellor of Germany. Whilst for many a leader this should have been a time for celebration, for Chancellor Merkel this was far from the case. The powerhouse who once controlled the whole of the Eurozone can now only sit and watch as her leadership disintegrates. Even her own coalition government is turning against her.

            The downfall of the Schengen Agreement has begun. This is a fact Mrs. Merkel may just be starting to recognise. However, she must wake up soon if she is to have any chance of salvaging her political career – with the German Federal elections set to take place in 2017.

            The Schengen Agreement eliminated all border checks among its members and allowed foreign visitors to travel throughout the area using one visa. With its downfall, border checks are beginning to re-appear in an attempt to ensure the safety of the general public.

            Since the escalation of the migrant crisis last year, hundreds of thousands of migrants have made the treacherous journey across the Mediterranean to begin their trail across Europe. With no borders, nothing has been able to stop them. Most want to head to the more Northern nations – chiefly Germany and Sweden – where the infrastructures are close to collapsing.

            The EU, the same Union which was founded to prevent conflict amongst its Member States, has seen Hungary sending armoured vehicles to its border with Croatia, Slovenian police sealing several crossings to Croatia, and genuine refugees and migrants alike being pepper-sprayed as they attempt to reach northern Europe. It’s important to remember, many of these people are genuinely in need of help. They do not wish to harm us, but the sheer scale of the problem is difficult to police.

            A Europe of open borders and peace? We think not.

            Time and time again Mrs. Merkel has paraded as the manipulator of the EU. She constantly refuses to acknowledge any faults with the Schengen Agreement. She has claimed closing the borders would offer a ‘false solution’. However, she now seems to regret her ‘everyone welcome’ open-door policy, inviting all the asylum seekers merrily into Germany – and hence into the rest of Europe – willy nilly.

            For Mrs. Merkel this is proving to be an impossible challenge for German’s infrastructure – planning for school places, doctors and nurses for hospitals and creating a housing crisis.

            Meanwhile, Britain has perhaps put in place a better way to solve this appalling crisis. We are trying to help migrants in camps surrounding the war-torn nations, making them as comfortable as possible while their status is verified and safe onward transport is arranged. Meanwhile, we are also expected to contribute to the EU’s faltering solution to the crisis.

            The first priority of any state is security for its citizens, and to protect its own borders. Before anything else, a government must be able to decide who enters into its territory. It must be able to decide who has access to its police and security databases. This is the only way any government can truly keep its people safe. When this cannot be done – a state has failed!

            We now know at least one – possibly two of the terrorists involved in the tragic Paris attacks travelled carefree across Europe via Turkey. They smuggled themselves with genuine refugees onto boats to Greece and were then free to roam across other EU nations in the Schengen Zone to Paris and Brussels – because EU laws allowed them to! Sadly, this also allowed them to commit the atrocious murders. The open border policy means an open border for everyone – those who wish to do us harm, as well as those who do not. These mass murderers are free to carry guns, chemicals and grenades — as well as drugs — with little chance of detection. These terrorists are taking advantage of the chaos of the refugee crisis and while the Schengen Agreement is in place, nothing will stop them.

            The state has failed. The EU has failed.

            The already declining popularity of the EU is plunging even further, with more people intending to vote to Leave the EU than ever before. Along with this, Mrs. Merkel’s popularity ratings are steadily declining. She does not control a majority government in Germany, and the support for her CDU/CSU coalition government has taken a blow, slipping 5 points to 37 per cent. Mrs. Merkel must now seek to prevent further damage to both herself, her party — and to Europe.

            How can she do this? Mrs. Merkel, as well as the rest of Europe, must accept the Schengen Agreement is on its last legs.

            Of course, neither the migrant crisis nor the terror attacks in Paris can be blamed solely on the Schengen Agreement, but it is hard to deny it is playing its role.

            Britain needs to make a stand now. It is time to accept it is not possible to have porous open borders throughout Europe — our security is at stake.

            David Cameron had a fantastic chance to force this idea through as part of his re-negotiation process — but he has failed even to touch on the subject. The only way to stop this madness is to Get Britain Out

            Comment


            • Originally posted by InExile View Post
              Yes, I hear you. Its unfortunate that law abiding American gun orders have to be hassled with more background checks due to the actions of a minority from a particular ethnicity.

              Its a bit like how some people blame an entire religion for the violent actions of a small minority. The aren't content with just more background checks, they want to ban all people of that religion from the US.
              Gun ownership is a right under the Constitution.

              Coming to America is not.
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

              Comment


              • The German government zero-new-debt budget surplus for 2015 exceeded expectations by almost 100%.

                The surplus is budgeted as a reserve for refugee-related costs for which 12.1 billion Euro are now available at federal level.


                Originally posted by tankie View Post
                Seems like Europe is beginning to freefall.
                Because Merkel is running a coalition government like every single chancellor winning free elections before her?
                Or because the current situation of the EU means that no one cares about Britain and its whining any more, especially given you're considered a non-player with regard to the entire refugee crisis?

                Merkel's position is based on a grand coalition, and is entirely steady. Her government coalition currently polls around 61-63% in surveys, with the three main opposition parties (two in parliament, one not) currently polling 9-10% each. Basically, 5% of the ballot moved from the coalition to the smallest of those opposition parties. That's all. They'd have to lose three times that to not win the next election. In order to do that said fringe party would have to get every single neonazi in Germany to the ballot - and, even more difficult, to vote for them.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  Gun ownership is a right under the constitution
                  Infringing on the rights of citizens based on religion is unconstitutional as well.

                  And it can be interpreted that Congress can't make a law that favours one religion over another

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by InExile View Post
                    Infringing on the rights of citizens based on religion is unconstitutional as well.

                    And it can be interpreted that Congress can't make a law that favours one religion over another
                    Where, when, and who said they want to remove all muslims from within US borders? I certainly did not say that.
                    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      Where, when, and who said they want to remove all muslims from within US borders? I certainly did not say that.
                      There have been calls for increased surveillance, and a registry or database for muslims based on religion.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by InExile View Post
                        There have been calls for increased surveillance, and a registry or database for muslims based on religion.
                        Give me some specifics.

                        There have been calls to release the database of gun owners/permit holders in the state of New York, if they haven't done so already.

                        Here it is:

                        http://www.guns.com/2014/03/07/new-y...ites-safe-act/

                        http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...and-addresses/

                        http://townhall.com/tipsheet/heather...proar-n1475969

                        I'm fine with registering people and their religious affiliation if this is how we want to do things.
                        Last edited by gunnut; 14 Jan 16,, 20:21.
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kato View Post
                          The German government zero-new-debt budget surplus for 2015 exceeded expectations by almost 100%.

                          The surplus is budgeted as a reserve for refugee-related costs for which 12.1 billion Euro are now available at federal level.



                          Because Merkel is running a coalition government like every single chancellor winning free elections before her?
                          Or because the current situation of the EU means that no one cares about Britain and its whining any more, especially given you're considered a non-player with regard to the entire refugee crisis?

                          Merkel's position is based on a grand coalition, and is entirely steady. Her government coalition currently polls around 61-63% in surveys, with the three main opposition parties (two in parliament, one not) currently polling 9-10% each. Basically, 5% of the ballot moved from the coalition to the smallest of those opposition parties. That's all. They'd have to lose three times that to not win the next election. In order to do that said fringe party would have to get every single neonazi in Germany to the ballot - and, even more difficult, to vote for them.
                          And guess what , you said adolf merkel IS the govt , and as for the UK whinging ,, nooooooooooooo not whinging ,,using sense and as for Germany's policies ,,your merkel minnions are in revolt ,,whinging methinks old fruit ,,tut tut ,,,TOLD YA SO ,, now dont forget to revoke their EU passports so we dont get them after your teutonic massive fuck up , AGAIN . Here don't believe me ,,but why should you Kato , im just an ENGLISHMAN who amongst millions of others ,including Denmark etc etc , wants out of your 3rd reich called the EU . Smelt the ersatz yet ,,,,,,noooooooooooooooo , not quite there yet huh .


                          HOME»NEWS»WORLD NEWS»EUROPE»GERMANY

                          Angela Merkel faces new rebellion over refugees

                          More than 40 MPs from Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat party sign petition calling for Germany's borders to be closed to asylum seekers



                          Angela Merkel
                          The German Chancellor is facing pressure from within her own party Photo: Markus Schreiber/AP
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                          By Justin Huggler in Berlin 3:59PM GMT 13 Jan 2016
                          Angela Merkel is facing a fresh rebellion over her refugee policy, with more than 40 politicians from her Christian Democrat party reportedly signing a petition to close Germany's borders to asylum seekers.
                          The rebels plan to call for a vote on the proposal at the next party meeting on January 26.
                          Mrs Merkel has come under intense pressure to change her “open-door” refugee policy since it emerged that asylum seekers were among the suspects in the New Year’s Eve sex attacks in Cologne.
                          More than 650 women have now come forward to file criminal complaints over the attacks, around 45 per cent of them for sexual assault.
                          Supporters of anti-immigration right-wing movement PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West) take part in in demonstration march, in reaction to mass assaults on women on New Year's Eve, in Cologne
                          Supporters of anti-immigration right-wing movement PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West) took part in a demonstration at the weekend, in reaction to mass assaults on women on New Year's Eve, in Cologne Photo: Wolfgang Rattay/Reuters
                          “If so many of our party speak out in favour of partial refusal at the border, we should all be able to vote on it,” Christian von Stetten, one of the MPs behind the move, told Bild newspaper.
                          The MPs’ petition calls for the border to be closed to asylum seekers “who wish to enter Germany illegally via a safe third country”.
                          In practice this would include almost all asylum seekers, as under the EU’s controversial Dublin rules refugees must claim asylum in the first member state they reach.
                          Germany is already turning away hundreds of migrants a day at its border with Austria under the rules because they want to travel through the country to claim asylum in Denmark or Sweden.
                          "If so many of our party speak out in favour of partial refusal at the border, we should all be able to vote on it"
                          Christian von Stetten
                          But thousands more who say they want to claim asylum in Germany are still allowed to enter despite crossing through other EU member states.
                          Mrs Merkel appeared to have seen off a rebellion with a triumphant speech at her party conference last month, in which she cast her decision to open Germany’s borders to refugees as a temporary crisis measure and pledged to reduce the numbers significantly.
                          But the Cologne attacks have reopened the debate and left her looking more isolated than ever.
                          Peter Tauber, the party’s general secretary, on Wednesday called for Germany’s states to deport 1,000 rejected asylum seekers a day.
                          His call came after it emerged that some of the suspects in the Cologne attacks were migrants whose asylum claims had been rejected, but had remained in Germany.
                          Currently the German authorities reject around 50 per cent of the 2,000 asylum claims they process each day. But the number who are actually deported is far lower.
                          “If one in two asylum claims is rejected on average, then the states have a duty to deport 1,000 rejected asylum seekers a day,” Mr Tauber told the Rheinische Post newspaper.
                          police arrest men around the main train station in Cologne
                          Police arresting men around the main train station in Colognefollowing the attacks Photo: Warren Allott/The Telegraph
                          Last year, Germany was only able to deport around 30 per cent of rejected asylum seekers. By the end of November, only 18,363 had been deported.
                          Under German law, asylum seekers cannot be deported to countries where their lives may be in danger, such as Syria.
                          Many migrants destroy their passports in order to claim they are from Syria, making it hard to determine where they are from. Some countries refuse to accept the return of their citizens.
                          The mood in the party is “tense”, Mr Tauber said.
                          “There are many questions, and a clear expectation that we move forward. We’re working on it.”
                          But he defended Mrs Merkel’s refugee policy.
                          “It is still right that we should deal with this great challenge, but of course it can’t go on forever. That’s why we’re working to reduce the number of refugees noticeably,” he said.

                          learn German and integrate. For those who don’t take that opportunity, the message is: ‘You can’t stay here’.

                          Comment


                          • A few notes regarding the article and where it's wrong:
                            • the cited "rebel plan" has been going on since October. Its supporters originally - back then - envisioned getting around 188 signatures from CDU Bundestag members, i.e. 60% of the CDU faction. Currently they're supported by 13% of the CDU faction, which makes it pretty much a complete failure. For scale comparison, the postcommunist Left Party as the smallest Bundestag faction still has more Bundestag members than the group supporting this plan.
                            • Not deporting a person to a country where their life is endangered is not a German law, it's part of the Geneva Convention on Refugees, and as such law in 147 states worldwide. The last European territory to accede to it was Jersey, btw. About twenty years ago.
                            • The Dublin treaty does not say that an asylum seeker must be processed by the country that they entered the EU in. Article 17 (in the current Dublin III treaty, in earlier versions it was farther up) explicitly states that any member nation may process an asylum request by a person falling under Dublin; Germany is officially doing so for asylum seekers with Syrian nationality, as well - on an individual basis - currently any who entered the EU through Hungary since Germany considers Hungary officially to be a backwater hellhole when it comes to treatment of refugees.


                            Also: Want to get out? Good riddance.

                            Comment


                            • Says it all huh , your errrr govt aint to happy is she , tell you what tho , dont worry as the EU needs the hmmmmmmmm , refugees / immigrants / asylum seekers / as we have all been told that they are enriching , even when robbing , murdering , raping and bless me likkle cotton socks , now receiving sniper training in Sweden ffs .Now what can possibly go wrong and spread south .

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                              Sweden: State-funded Muslim Sniper Training

                              JANUARY 15, 2016 BY TNO STAFF— IN EUROPE · 29 COMMENTS
                              The Swedish state is funding a sniper training course for recently-arrived Third World “refugees” as part of their “integration program”—despite the ever-growing refugee-terrorist attacks across Europe.

                              allehanda-shooting-03

                              The almost unbelievable plunge into insanity—started two years ago already—was reported—in a positive pro-refugee light—by the Allehanda newspaper in Sweden, under the title “Fired up for Sniping,” (Laddade för prickskytte, literally “Charged up for Sniping”) and shows a large number of Third Worlders being taught how to target shoot with sniper rifles on a formal shooting ground in Sollefteå, central Sweden.

                              allehanda

                              The Allehanda informs its readers that the “sniping course” began on a “small scale in the Fall,” but then for reasons which are obvious, but which the Swedish newspaper ignores, “interest exploded” among the nonwhite invaders to take the course.

                              When the Allehanda visited the shooting range, “more than 50 immigrant youths were on the course,” honing their shooting skills.

                              Even more incredibly, the sniping course is being paid for by Sweden’s state-funded Migration Agency as an “integration” program into Swedish society.

                              “Young people from all over the world—Syria, Afghanistan, Africa, [and] South America” are taking sniping lessons, the Allehanda said, and some of them are “interested and very talented,” the paper quoted course supervisor Birgit Höglin as saying.


                              The program is offered as part of the language course at the local upper secondary school, Höglin said, saying that the benefits of the program are “much more” than just teaching the invaders how to use sniping rifles.

                              “Here they talk Swedish in other social contexts, meet new people, and hang out. It is especially good for their vocabulary,” Höglin said.

                              It seems of no concern to these liberals that every single terrorist attack on Europe in 2015 was carried out by “refugees.”

                              State-funded sniper training for “young immigrants” seems so out of place that such an undertaking is firmly in the realm of the insane, and would, if not actually happening, be the subject of some bizarre joke.

                              Unfortunately, it is not.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tankie View Post
                                Says it all huh , your errrr govt aint to happy is she , tell you what tho , dont worry as the EU needs the hmmmmmmmm , refugees / immigrants / asylum seekers / as we have all been told that they are enriching , even when robbing , murdering , raping and bless me likkle cotton socks , now receiving sniper training in Sweden ffs .Now what can possibly go wrong and spread south .

                                [ATTACH]40746[/ATTACH]


                                Sweden: State-funded Muslim Sniper Training

                                JANUARY 15, 2016 BY TNO STAFF— IN EUROPE · 29 COMMENTS
                                The Swedish state is funding a sniper training course for recently-arrived Third World “refugees” as part of their “integration program”—despite the ever-growing refugee-terrorist attacks across Europe.

                                allehanda-shooting-03

                                The almost unbelievable plunge into insanity—started two years ago already—was reported—in a positive pro-refugee light—by the Allehanda newspaper in Sweden, under the title “Fired up for Sniping,” (Laddade för prickskytte, literally “Charged up for Sniping”) and shows a large number of Third Worlders being taught how to target shoot with sniper rifles on a formal shooting ground in Sollefteå, central Sweden.

                                allehanda

                                The Allehanda informs its readers that the “sniping course” began on a “small scale in the Fall,” but then for reasons which are obvious, but which the Swedish newspaper ignores, “interest exploded” among the nonwhite invaders to take the course.

                                When the Allehanda visited the shooting range, “more than 50 immigrant youths were on the course,” honing their shooting skills.

                                Even more incredibly, the sniping course is being paid for by Sweden’s state-funded Migration Agency as an “integration” program into Swedish society.

                                “Young people from all over the world—Syria, Afghanistan, Africa, [and] South America” are taking sniping lessons, the Allehanda said, and some of them are “interested and very talented,” the paper quoted course supervisor Birgit Höglin as saying.


                                The program is offered as part of the language course at the local upper secondary school, Höglin said, saying that the benefits of the program are “much more” than just teaching the invaders how to use sniping rifles.

                                “Here they talk Swedish in other social contexts, meet new people, and hang out. It is especially good for their vocabulary,” Höglin said.

                                It seems of no concern to these liberals that every single terrorist attack on Europe in 2015 was carried out by “refugees.”

                                State-funded sniper training for “young immigrants” seems so out of place that such an undertaking is firmly in the realm of the insane, and would, if not actually happening, be the subject of some bizarre joke.

                                Unfortunately, it is not.
                                What's next? Free AK for all immigrants?

                                How can I immigrate to Sweden?
                                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                                Comment

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