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  • Originally posted by kato View Post
    We did the whole religious confrontation thing 400 years ago. It killed off 30% of the population.
    Exactly my point my dear fellow. Why are you enabling the religious confrontation thing to start again?
    Let them be in their own nations or other islamic nations, dont take them in and force religious strife on your future generations.

    @Popillol, he means the 30 years war and related stuff.
    A quick wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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    • Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
      @Popillol, he means the 30 years war and related stuff.
      That and more. Previous strife led leaders to declare cuius regio, eius religio in the supposed peace settlement of 1555 to divide the country, separating the states into ones that hosted one religion and others for the other. 70 years later that came crashing down. What resulted from it fifty years later was secularization of the government, culminating in the modern mainstream line of thought that religion should be private and not a matter of politics in any way, shape or form.

      The four million muslims we have in Germany live the same way as the rest, and accept that as much as the rest. 81% of our muslims do not think the person leading our country needs to believe in (any) god. Among protestants it's 86%, among catholics 89%. 81% of Germans as a whole think religion has no place in politics. How is that in India?

      Cuius regio, eius religio is nowadays viewed in Germany - outside fundamentalist circles - with derision btw, seen as a term applicable to politicians who want to lord over the culture of the people, suppressing minorities.
      Last edited by kato; 20 Sep 15,, 09:41.

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      • Originally posted by kato View Post
        The four million muslims we have in Germany live the same way as the rest, and accept that as much as the rest. 81% of our muslims do not think the person leading our country needs to believe in (any) god. Among protestants it's 86%, among catholics 89%. 81% of Germans as a whole think religion has no place in politics. How is that in India?

        Cuius regio, eius religio is nowadays viewed in Germany - outside fundamentalist circles - with derision btw, seen as a term applicable to politicians who want to lord over the culture of the people, suppressing minorities.
        I'm sorry this is just wishful thinking. You cannot compare Islam to post enlightenment Christianity. It is not just a religion that can be kept in the private sphere, its a complete way of life with many aspects that are contrary to the liberal democratic western european way of life.
        Most importantly its followers are not dull and tired like you are....they have drive they have energy they have the absolute certainty of fanatic belief.

        You are importing large numbers of young men with very few skills useful in a modern economy. They have seen war and atrocities 1st hand and so will have hardened attitudes. Other western european nations like France and the UK have already tested and demonstrated to you what happens.
        At best you will get a decade of quiet before the fun and games kick off.

        WRT to your question on how it is in india, religion permeates everything. It is strongly shown in public life and politicians of both faiths use it.
        Centuries of confrontation with fundamentalist islam has poisoned Hinduism and destroyed the Dharmic inclusiveness that it was so proud of.
        Secular has become a dirty word, most people who even use the word are derided as 'Sickular' or 'anti hindu' and so on.
        For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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        • bolo121, if your country can't take in these unfortunate refugees because of your poor economic conditions and because you are already hosting Bangladeshi, Tibetan and Lankan Tamil refugees, that is okay. But why dissuade someone who is able and willing to help them out?

          By the way, yes, I have been to old Hyderabad, Shivajinagar and Jama Masjid areas (though not to the other places you mentioned). In another similar Muslim dominated neighborhood I've seen the most resourceful auto-mechanics, electricians and tile-fabricators I've come across in India. I'm sure there are many other hidden and under-utilized skill sets in those serpentine alleyways. In Germany these kinds of small- and mid-sized businesses are organized and integrated to make it the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe.

          Sorry for the digression, but I am guilty of saying something equally narrow-minded (incidentally about Shivajinagar) sometime back, and felt I can make some small amends by look and showing it from another POV.

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          • Originally posted by Cactus View Post
            bolo121, if your country can't take in these unfortunate refugees because of your poor economic conditions and because you are already hosting Bangladeshi, Tibetan and Lankan Tamil refugees, that is okay. But why dissuade someone who is able and willing to help them out?

            By the way, yes, I have been to old Hyderabad, Shivajinagar and Jama Masjid areas (though not to the other places you mentioned). In another similar Muslim dominated neighborhood I've seen the most resourceful auto-mechanics, electricians and tile-fabricators I've come across in India. I'm sure there are many other hidden and under-utilized skill sets in those serpentine alleyways. In Germany these kinds of small- and mid-sized businesses are organized and integrated to make it the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe.

            Sorry for the digression, but I am guilty of saying something equally narrow-minded (incidentally about Shivajinagar) sometime back, and felt I can make some small amends by look and showing it from another POV.
            Haha yes they are certainly resourceful, most stolen car are split into parts for sale there. Also they are experts at 'salvaging' metal especially copper from various places.
            My point was that we do have many religious and social problems due to hindu muslim tensions.
            We are a mostly poor horrifically overpopulated nation and the government is not able to take care of our own citizens, taking refugees from the middle east is not possible.
            The germans are fortunate to have a mostly homogeneous peaceful social fabric, being bleeding hearts and inviting many migrants is very very short sighted.
            They are not refugees they came through many many safe other nations they are shopping for the most lenient EU nation with max benefits.
            German companies in the mittlestand are indeed very impressive, they are super high tech high end manufacturing not sure what jobs most syrians can have there.
            With regard to your point on discrimination, I am sympathetic, the tension between hindus and muslims is indeed very bad.
            They are our people so we do have to support them, but the Germans should be smart and realize what will happen in future.
            Why go for all these problems.....be safe and keep your nation peaceful.
            Last edited by bolo121; 20 Sep 15,, 14:04.
            For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

            Comment


            • This isn't Morocco, Yemen or Saudi Arabia. This is the ‪#‎Paris‬ underground.
              Europe wake up!
              http://t.co/6cIb8en6b4

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                That and more. Previous strife led leaders to declare cuius regio, eius religio in the supposed peace settlement of 1555 to divide the country, separating the states into ones that hosted one religion and others for the other. 70 years later that came crashing down. What resulted from it fifty years later was secularization of the government, culminating in the modern mainstream line of thought that religion should be private and not a matter of politics in any way, shape or form.

                The four million muslims we have in Germany live the same way as the rest, and accept that as much as the rest. 81% of our muslims do not think the person leading our country needs to believe in (any) god. Among protestants it's 86%, among catholics 89%. 81% of Germans as a whole think religion has no place in politics. How is that in India?

                Cuius regio, eius religio is nowadays viewed in Germany - outside fundamentalist circles - with derision btw, seen as a term applicable to politicians who want to lord over the culture of the people, suppressing minorities.
                Time will tell but personally I think you are living in Fantasyland

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                  German companies in the mittlestand are indeed very impressive, they are super high tech high end manufacturing not sure what jobs most syrians can have there.
                  The Mittelstand isn't just high-tech manufacturing. In fact most of it isn't. If you want a secure job in the manufacturing branch of the Mittelstand do an apprenticeship in metalworking and get training for operating CNC lathes or as a welder.

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                  • You were warned , but can anyone translate exactly what they are saying in the vid ?


                    ISIS message to Muslims in Germany, KILL the non Muslims . Germany's response is to bring more Muslims in

                    https://t.co/ec99glpGtV
                    Last edited by tankie; 21 Sep 15,, 17:26.

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                    • Originally posted by kato View Post
                      We did the whole religious confrontation thing 400 years ago. It killed off 30% of the population.
                      Getting ready for another one?
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        Getting ready for another one?
                        Not going to happen. There is a reason NATO exists and its primary purpose isn't to keep the flower of Western European maidenhood out of the clutches of the evil Ruskie.
                        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                        Leibniz

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                        • Wait 10 more years.You'll see some evolutions.

                          NATO means ABCA when it comes to deployable units,a bunch of French for Chad's and Mali's a not deployable bunch in Eastern Europe that are watching East anyway.And the rest of NATO can't take Marseille back if the caliphate manages to repeat Mosul .
                          There is a pattern of modern wars.Government forces fail or they need additional volunteer forces.Weak governments,but those that will have a third of the military aged youths of foreign origin won't be strong.
                          Those who know don't speak
                          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                          • Just heard that in Herford my old barracks , Harewood , is being used to house some of the "refugees " , Herford has problems now with the Turks and Albanians and others , who are not in love with each other , Herford was the best posting 1RTR ever had IMO , and I can see problems aplenty coming .I loved that place and if it all kicks off it will be a sad time for locals .
                            Last edited by tankie; 22 Sep 15,, 16:24.

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                            • Harewood only houses around 400 (if the second batch has arrived yet, didn't check). Northrhine-Westfalia is pretty cheap on housing, and as a consequence at that barracks you can't even drink the tap water.

                              Herford's problem isn't Turks or Albanians, it's problem is that it's a backwater town in the middle of nowhere, with the only larger city in its neighborhood being the one that a common hoax in Germany denies its existance.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                                Harewood only houses around 400 (if the second batch has arrived yet, didn't check). Northrhine-Westfalia is pretty cheap on housing, and as a consequence at that barracks you can't even drink the tap water.

                                Herford's problem isn't Turks or Albanians, it's problem is that it's a backwater town in the middle of nowhere, with the only larger city in its neighborhood being the one that a common hoax in Germany denies its existance.
                                Cant drink the tap water ,where did that snippet of b/s come from ??we always did . Bielefeld is it , and the Albanians ARE a problem , they have no go pubs for a start , well anyhoo we loved the backwater , a 100 times better than Osnabruck which was my 1st post in 69 .

                                Ah well it aint just Herford which is gonna have problems ,,its your whole country as Merkel is fast coming to understand .
                                Last edited by tankie; 22 Sep 15,, 18:19.

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