Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Germany's Refugee Crisis

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by kato View Post
    Actually, she's not trying to kick out 100,000. She expects that by the end of the year 100,000 in total will be gone - they're currently at around 80,000 down; one third deported, two thirds "voluntarily" leaving (meaning Germany pays for their return flight). We're running out of people to deport though. Only 50,000 left, roughly the same amount as every year around this time.

    Interestingly the refugee topic has completely vanished in Germany since the beginning of this year when refugees stopped coming. The district I live in got a grand total of 56 refugees appointed for housing in October this year. In October 2015 they got twenty times that: 1,138. Even in 2014 they got more than this year - 80 in October.
    Vanished because you don't see it. Munich is a home of a shiny new 4m tall wall around a camp for refugee kids without parents. What refugees, I see no refugees.

    Your first part is semantics.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • That wall is only on one side of the camp. And it makes the camp more visible, not less - at least in media.

      We do have around 25,000 refugees in the agglomeration i live in. I see the adults shopping in my local supermarkets (in at least one of em i have to be fast nowadays to grab some meat that isn't haram), i see the kids hanging out with German kids in the parks (well, not so much now that it's become cold, but during the summer), i get to know parents who insist their kids get a proper university education, i see businessmen reopening kiosks and restaurants that had been given up by retiring Germans (well, or opening them in new places - such as in a former sex shop that closed two years ago), i see polite youths insisting on offering older people their seat on the bus when the blonde probably Russian teen next to them keeps playing on their cell phone.

      On deportations: Gotta differentiate too. The ones we're kicking out? That's the Yugoslavs and Albanians we didn't want in the first place. For collective deportations in the first half of 2016 (meaning federal police escorts on average 150 people on a plane - 58% of overall deportations in timeframe):
      - 70% to Kosovo/Albania/Serbia/Macedonia
      - 12.5% to Russia/Georgia/Armenia
      - 10.5% to Nigeria/Togo
      - 3.5% to Tunisia
      - 3.5% to other countries.
      We've also begun reapplying Dublin btw - those are in those 100,000 too. The most kicked-back nationality to entry countries? Nope, not some Arabs or Africans. Or even Yugoslavians. It's Russians. And we're sending them back to Poland.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by kato View Post
        That wall is only on one side of the camp. And it makes the camp more visible, not less - at least in media.

        We do have around 25,000 refugees in the agglomeration i live in. I see the adults shopping in my local supermarkets (in at least one of em i have to be fast nowadays to grab some meat that isn't haram), i see the kids hanging out with German kids in the parks (well, not so much now that it's become cold, but during the summer), i get to know parents who insist their kids get a proper university education, i see businessmen reopening kiosks and restaurants that had been given up by retiring Germans (well, or opening them in new places - such as in a former sex shop that closed two years ago), i see polite youths insisting on offering older people their seat on the bus when the blonde probably Russian teen next to them keeps playing on their cell phone.

        On deportations: Gotta differentiate too. The ones we're kicking out? That's the Yugoslavs and Albanians we didn't want in the first place. For collective deportations in the first half of 2016 (meaning federal police escorts on average 150 people on a plane - 58% of overall deportations in timeframe):
        - 70% to Kosovo/Albania/Serbia/Macedonia
        - 12.5% to Russia/Georgia/Armenia
        - 10.5% to Nigeria/Togo
        - 3.5% to Tunisia
        - 3.5% to other countries.
        We've also begun reapplying Dublin btw - those are in those 100,000 too. The most kicked-back nationality to entry countries? Nope, not some Arabs or Africans. Or even Yugoslavians. It's Russians. And we're sending them back to Poland.
        Yugoslavs eh? Split it by numbers, 70% from 50.000 is 35.000. IIRC I haven't seen planes with migrants landing here.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
          Vanished because you don't see it. Munich is a home of a shiny new 4m tall wall around a camp for refugee kids without parents. What refugees, I see no refugees.

          Your first part is semantics.
          I hope its nowhere near a certain suburb...that really would be distasteful.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            IIRC I haven't seen planes with migrants landing here.
            Macedonia had two flights to Skopje in the first half of this year. Albania and Kosovo get the most.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Toby View Post
              I hope its nowhere near a certain suburb...that really would be distasteful.
              I don't follow.

              But the wall is taller than the Berlin one and the kids are not allowed to use it for recreational activities.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fb9253f7a-a511-11e6-9a56-fbc08fa6e078.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	44.3 KB
ID:	1469978

              Is the fence also one-sided?
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                I don't follow.
                He's referring to Dachau i think. Which is on the other end of Munich.

                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                Is the fence also one-sided?
                There is no fence, only the wall. The wall was built based on resident complaints about potential noise - technically e.g. a rampart or a dense tree line would likely also have sufficed for the same purpose (but would have been pricier...).

                There are no kids living there yet btw, they're planned to move in next April or May when the housing next to it is completed.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kato View Post
                  He's referring to Dachau i think. Which is on the other end of Munich.


                  There is no fence, only the wall. The wall was built based on resident complaints about potential noise - technically e.g. a rampart or a dense tree line would likely also have sufficed for the same purpose (but would have been pricier...).

                  There are no kids living there yet btw, they're planned to move in next April or May when the housing next to it is completed.
                  Clearly you don't see the picture I attached. The whole place is surrounded by a fence.

                  Here is a link to a larger photo.

                  Still doesn't explain why the kids (I never said they are in) can't use the wall for recreational activities, you know, drawing graffities, play ball, etc, etc, kids stuff.

                  Oh, and the trees are there, too.
                  Last edited by Doktor; 08 Dec 16,, 19:04.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kato View Post
                    Macedonia had two flights to Skopje in the first half of this year. Albania and Kosovo get the most.
                    Albanians are now Yugoslavs? Noted.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Clearly you don't see the picture I attached. The whole place is surrounded by a fence.
                      That's a temporary construction site fence, not something permanent...

                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Still doesn't explain why the kids (I never said they are in) can't use the wall for recreational activities, you know, drawing graffities, play ball, etc, etc, kids stuff.
                      Because that's what would make the noise that's been complained about. Munich is rather quirky about noise (from children) - they constantly have court cases where residents are successful preventing in particular larger centers for children being newly built by claiming they'd be too loud. Munich has built similar walls next to schools, kindergartens, playgrounds, sports areas etc. or has in multiple cases removed already constructed or cancelled construction of such projects.

                      Officially you can't complain about children noise legally in most states, but Bavaria courts over the past 10-15 years have repeatedly applied "this is a special case" ideas to things like these. Other states during the 90s switched over to stances declaring children noise something to be tolerated, hence why you won't see such walls in other states either.

                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Oh, and the trees are there, too.
                      Those are in the private gardens of the houses and therefore don't count. The noise complaint is about people sitting in the gardens being disturbed by noise.

                      The people who got the wall in court originally wanted a similar-sized rampart erected inbetween. City claimed a rampart would lead to floods due to a small creek a few hundred meters away. Actual reason of course is that a rampart would have taken about half the space between the new constructions and the gardens to be "protected".

                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Albanians are now Yugoslavs? Noted.
                      Uh, it does say "Yugoslavs and Albanians" in that post above. Flights to Skopje get Macedonians, flights to Tirana Albanians...
                      Last edited by kato; 09 Dec 16,, 07:56.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by kato View Post
                        That's a temporary construction site fence, not something permanent...


                        Because that's what would make the noise that's been complained about. Munich is rather quirky about noise (from children) - they constantly have court cases where residents are successful preventing in particular larger centers for children being newly built by claiming they'd be too loud. Munich has built similar walls next to schools, kindergartens, playgrounds, sports areas etc. or has in multiple cases removed already constructed or cancelled construction of such projects.

                        Officially you can't complain about children noise legally in most states, but Bavaria courts over the past 10-15 years have repeatedly applied "this is a special case" ideas to things like these. Other states during the 90s switched over to stances declaring children noise something to be tolerated, hence why you won't see such walls in other states either.


                        Those are in the private gardens of the houses and therefore don't count. The noise complaint is about people sitting in the gardens being disturbed by noise.

                        The people who got the wall in court originally wanted a similar-sized rampart erected inbetween. City claimed a rampart would lead to floods due to a small creek a few hundred meters away. Actual reason of course is that a rampart would have taken about half the space between the new constructions and the gardens to be "protected".


                        Uh, it does say "Yugoslavs and Albanians" in that post above. Flights to Skopje get Macedonians, flights to Tirana Albanians...
                        Flights to Skopje get Albanians and Romas with MK passports. For the rest, you will always come up with a perfect answer. Just doesn't add. It's temporary, it doesn't count since it's on private property, we don't deport, we only send back, etc, etc.
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kato View Post
                          Actually, she's not trying to kick out 100,000. She expects that by the end of the year 100,000 in total will be gone - they're currently at around 80,000 down; one third deported, two thirds "voluntarily" leaving (meaning Germany pays for their return flight). We're running out of people to deport though. Only 50,000 left, roughly the same amount as every year around this time.

                          Interestingly the refugee topic has completely vanished in Germany since the beginning of this year when refugees stopped coming. The district I live in got a grand total of 56 refugees appointed for housing in October this year. In October 2015 they got twenty times that: 1,138. Even in 2014 they got more than this year - 80 in October.
                          There was a taxi service (well one guy in a car basically) i used in a city in Gujarat (a state in India) which i frequent for business in India.
                          His brother had gone to Germany through the refuge routes by investing 25,000 USD, and had found himself in a government provided housing with some sort of a job to do and apparently money for survival as well. A month ago he took a loan, sold his car, and went to Germany as well.
                          And i am actually not kidding, his brother was really in Germany and now he is really gone and if things go well from him hopefully i get a whatsapp from him.
                          Its strange that this can happen in a western nation, and especially Germany.

                          Comment


                          • We do get a very limited number of Indian refugees, between 1,000 and 2,000 per year (last year was relatively low at 1,200). Back in the 70s and 80s Indians at similar numbers still formed proportionally a far more important refugee group in Germany, accounting for 5-10% of refugees arriving. Enough for Germany to consider placing India on the "safe state" list whose only purpose is to curb incoming refugee numbers.
                            The majority of Indians arriving in Germany are Sikhs from any of the states along the western border of India - anywhere from Gujarat to Kashmir. One standard route last year for Indians was apparently to take direct flights to Greece and from there take the refugee track through the Balkans. Many Punjabi Sikhs in particular looks-wise can easily pass themselves off as Arabs too - other than the language of course.
                            In earlier years a common route for Indians was to arrive as hidden passengers on cargo ships in German ports instead.

                            Acceptance rate for asylum requests of Indians rarely goes above exactly 0.0%. Most Indian refugees staying in Germany have rejected asylum requests and are in a status making them liable for deportation at any time. India though is one of 29 countries listed in Germany as being highly uncooperative in deportations, hence why many are allowed (many, many) 3- to 6-month extensions before reevaluation of deportation.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kato View Post
                              We do get a very limited number of Indian refugees
                              Is that really the right word to describe them? If so what exactly are they fleeing in India? Just curious if that word is used to simply be politically correct like migrant instead of alien.

                              Comment


                              • So Basically these guys going to Germany stay there illegally. Or if they are applying for refugee entry, they are denied and just wait deportation.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X