Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Germany's Refugee Crisis

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by kato View Post
    People who are not Bavarian citizens have no idea what the CSU is. Period.
    But undersdand MB, BMW and Porsche :)
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • Mercedes-Benz and Porsche aren't from Bavaria either.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by kato View Post



        For you proving the prejudices Germans have about Eastern Europeans?
        Which are?
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

        Comment


        • Sweden is beginning to be a tad miffed as are the Germans ,,,,,,,,told you so .


          Civil war erupts in Sweden as irate Swedes burn nine Muslim refugee centers to the ground
          by Thomas Madison November 1, 2015 muslim invasion
          SHARE ON FACEBOOK

          SHARE ON TWITTER
          By Thomas Madison

          The Swedes have had it with the Muslim invasion currently underway in their country. Nine refugee centers have been burnt to the ground to get the message across – NO MORE MUSLIMS!



          Refugee centers in Sweden are being burned to the ground in what appears to be a statement against the significant number of refugees the country has allowed in. The multiple arsons have all been at facilities which house or are slated to house immigrants.

          One could say that someone in Sweden is mad as hell and bringing fire and brimstone to the facilities that are to be used for refugees. Seven arson fires have occurred, all of which seem to be connected with immigrant centers.


          Two more shelters intended for refugees went up in flames in Sweden, continuing a recent series arson of attacks that police believe are directed against arriving asylum seekers amidst the migrant crisis in Europe.
          In the latest incident, a children’s summer camp in the Swedish town of Eskilstuna, located about 112 kilometers west of the country’s capital of Stockholm, was engulfed in flames. The camp was planned to host about 60 asylum seekers.

          Around the same time, another fire started in a refugee center in the town of Munkedal in southwestern Sweden, which had already been damaged by fire earlier in another suspected arson attack last week. However, that blaze was tackled quickly and no-one was injured because the area had been cordoned off after the previous incident.
          Sweden has taken in more refugees than any other European country in proportion to its population. With 100,000 “asylum seekers” already in the country this year and another 90,000 thought to be arriving before the end of the year, the citizens of Sweden may not be as welcoming as they once were.


          Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/swedes...to-the-ground/


          https://youtu.be/6bJzCpvMSNw

          By Thomas Madison

          Watch as this Muslim warns a German. “We will marry your daughters and they will wear hijab!”

          The man speaking is a Muslim, warning a German listener in fluent German:

          “Islam is coming to take over Germany whether you want it or not…not through war but by the fact that Germans don’t reproduce and Muslims have 7-8 children each…but not only that, your daughters will marry bearded Muslims and wear the hijab, their sons will wear a beard! The Muslims will have four wives and 27 children and what does the German man have? One child and maybe a little pet dog! The German has taken advantage of the Muslim for too long, just so he can drive his Mercedes…now Islam is coming and your daughters will wear the hijab! Ha! I can see the look of hate in your eyes!”




          Here is the literal translation of his message to the German listener:

          “Now for real. Islam is going to come (up) in Germany whether you want or not. Your daughter is going to wear hijab. Your son will wear a beard. Ok? And your daughter is going to marry a bearded man. So. And we proliferate more and more. You Germans don’t have children. You have at most two kids. We have 7 or 8. الحَمْد لله Ok, my friend? And then we take four women, then we have 22 children. So. You have maybe one kid and one dog. And that’s it. My friend, that is not our fault, it’s your fault. Because you robbed our countries. Colonized them for you to drive a mercedes and to use your digital camera. So allah the almight god makes it so that we conquer you not with war in Germany but with birth rates, firstly, and secondly, we marry your daughters. Yes? And your daughter will wear a hijab. And now you can really go bezerk. One can see the hate in your eyes.”
          H/T Pamela Geller…. http://pamelageller.com/2015/10/germ....hkKkJXlV.dpuf


          Read more at http://powderedwigsociety.com/muslim...tens-german-1/

          Comment


          • A good job for social media like f/b etc etc as the worlds media is reporting none of this ,or very very little

            30 October at 10:44 ·
            A situational report from Germany.

            This is from a retired RAF officer who served in the sixties and is now working and living in Germany.

            Dear Friends,

            Europe is now in total chaos and I think that you should know about it.

            I have waited a week or so to see how things would develop and to glean more information before presenting the facts.

            As you may know from the media, the flood of refugees from war-torn countries and those who are economic immigrants, into Europe, has reached ridiculous proportions - to the extent that Hungary and other Balkan states have now closed their borders and Turkey is considering doing the same. No news of this is forthcoming from the European media.

            Angela Merkel in an ill-advised speech to the Bundestag welcomed all refugees to Germany and the floodgates opened. In my view, this was all pre-planned from the beginning with the Pope’s appeal last year for "Islam to move closer to Christianity". This was then followed up via the Italian Government instructing the Italian Navy "to rescue all boat refugees and bring them to Italy".

            As a result, it is reported that some 8000 people per day are now entering Europe via various routes. Most of these are young males between 17 and 25. The result is chaos, as you can imagine.

            Here in Saarland we have been overwhelmed with refugees mainly young males with some families. In Lebach, some ten kilometres from here, a camp for 200 was set up and a further 100 added to this last week. The politicians, local government and religious leaders have fallen over themselves to bring them in and cater for them.

            And so what is the result? In Ventimaglia near Monte Carlo, the refugees banded together (organized by their smart phones) and overran the market, stealing or destroying everything and practically ransacked the town.

            Here in Lebach, a group entered a supermarket and just took what they wanted and destroyed the rest. When the Manageress confronted them, they called up their friends and smashed the place to bits. The police arrived but were overwhelmed. The supermarket is now closed.

            Yesterday, my friends rang from Weissenfels near Leipzig to tell me that two supermarkets and a Kaufland store in Halle suffered the same fate. More news is coming in from all over Germany reporting the same situation.

            The media report none of this.

            Many people have demonstrated against being overrun by immigrants. In Weissenfels poor German families were thrown out of an eight flat apartment block and 70 refugees were moved in. Small towns of some 2000 to 3000 population are now over-run by some 5000 to 6000 refugees.

            Civil dissatisfaction is starting to rise and is boiling just under the surface. Europe is in chaos and the do-gooders have totally lost control of the situation. Islam has overwhelmed us.

            For the Syrian and Afghan refugees, I have every sympathy as their countries are being devastated by a coalition bent on their destruction. But for the rest, who are just economic refugees, wanting to come to richer countries to get benefits, in my view, the state authorities must be firm and send them back. However, perhaps it is already too late.

            Anyway, I thought that you should know that the situation here is pretty grim and I fail to see how it can be resolved. I can only foresee a police state of affairs arising.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tankie View Post
              A good job for social media like f/b etc etc as the worlds media is reporting none of this ,or very very little
              The "they looted the supermarket" scare is one that has been pandered on social media like Facebook for literally hundreds of different alleged crime locations and has consistently in every single case been proven entirely wrong and pure slander*. There's a couple other versions, such as rape or assault stories, also always proven wrong.
              There are a few dozen cases right now against criminals who use social media for such purposes.

              If that guy is actually British he's risking his residency btw. Fully rightfully. We don't need your kind of Thatcherite refugees here.

              * The media does report on this. Except they're not saying what the Dunkeldeutschen want to hear. Instead they go and ask the guys who run those stores allegedly attacked. And then publish their findings.
              Last edited by kato; 03 Nov 15,, 18:47.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                The "they looted the supermarket" scare is one that has been pandered on social media like Facebook for literally hundreds of different alleged crime locations and has consistently in every single case been proven entirely wrong and pure slander*. There's a couple other versions, such as rape or assault stories, also always proven wrong.
                There are a few dozen cases right now against criminals who use social media for such purposes.

                If that guy is actually British he's risking his residency btw. Fully rightfully. We don't need your kind of Thatcherite refugees here.

                * The media does report on this. Except they're not saying what the Dunkeldeutschen want to hear. Instead they go and ask the guys who run those stores allegedly attacked. And then publish their findings.
                Hahahahahahahahahahaha yea ok , you suffer from ostrich syndrome mate .

                Seems like your govt has its knives out for merkel ,,smell the ersatz yet ??

                Der Spiegel international

                For almost three quarters of an hour, it was as though there was no refugee crisis in Germany. Last Monday, Angela Merkel was in Nuremberg for a town hall discussion with a specially chosen group of conservative voters. A moderator in a light-colored, summer suit directed the proceedings as Merkel chatted about everything "that is important to us."


                Initially, the focus was on those things that used to be important to Germans -- up until roughly eight weeks ago. Things like vocational education, the country's school system and the difficulty German companies have in competing with companies like Google and Apple.
                It was like a trip back in time -- back to Germany's recent past, when the country was happier and untroubled. But then Christine Bruchmann, a local business leader, abruptly steered the discussion back to the issue that has dominated Germany in recent weeks. Bruchmann wanted to know if Merkel was concerned that the huge numbers of refugees currently arriving in the country could disrupt societal balance.

                The German chancellor took a deep breath before launching into a sober analysis of the job she has done in the past two months. Unfortunately, her conclusion was not particularly rosy.

                She knows, Merkel said, that there still isn't European agreement on how to share the refugee burden; that there is still no deal with Turkey on slowing the inflow of migrants into Europe; and that along the Balkan Route, used by hundreds of thousands of Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis in recent weeks in their quest to seek asylum in Germany and other northern European countries, there is a lack of "order" and "control." In particular, Merkel said, she is concerned about that "which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center."

                One of Merkel's great strengths is an unerring sense for political reality. As such, her comments at the town meeting early last week show that nobody knows better than Germany's chancellor just how precarious the situation in the country has become. The influx of refugees continues unabated and Merkel's public approval ratings continue to fall in lockstep with sinking support for her center-right Christian Democrats (CDU). Meanwhile, her quarrel with Horst Seehofer, head of the Christian Social Union (CSU), the CDU's Bavarian sister party, has reached a new and dangerous level. Seehofer has issued so many ultimatums to the chancellor that he will eventually be forced to make good on one of his threats -- which could throw Merkel's suddenly wobbly governing coalition completely off kilter.

                'The End of the Merkel Era'

                The government, in short, has lost control. And Germany is in a state of emergency.

                Merkel can still rely on a large number of supporters within her own party. But each day that thousands of refugees cross into Germany, the certainty that such support is sustainable erodes a bit further. Not long ago, Merkel was considered the strongest political leader in Europe, one whose term in office could only come to an end were she to decide herself against running for reelection in 2017. Now, both foreign and domestic media outlets are wondering aloud whether she will run into serious trouble before Christmas, or shortly thereafter. "The end of the Merkel era is within sight," the Financial Times wrote a week ago.

                Merkel's historic decision to open Germany's borders to refugees stuck in Hungary was morally unassailable. But politically, it has put her on the defensive. Now, in order to tighten up Europe's external borders, she is dependent on the help of erstwhile opponents such as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

                In the EU, meanwhile, her maxim that Europe should not get back into the business of building border fences is being openly questioned. Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner, for example, announced last week that her country was being forced to build additional security facilities because the "inflow" from Slovenia was larger than the "outflow" into Germany.

                There is no shortage of schadenfreude these days when European politicians speak about the German chancellor. The true ruler of Europe, who forced her austerity policies upon the entire Continent, must now come begging for help in dealing with the refugee crisis, people in Brussels are saying.

                Indeed, it is slowly becoming apparent that Merkel's influence in the EU is waning just as her support evaporates back home in Germany. To be sure, the chancellor's stock has risen in recent weeks among Green Party supporters and left-wing Social Democrats. But her own core of center-right voters is fearful that the "refugees welcome" movement could give rise to a parallel society of Muslims in the country.

                A Shot in the Arm for the Populists

                The situation is not dissimilar to the fate of her predecessor Gerhard Schröder. In the early 2000s, the Social Democratic chancellor pushed through welfare cuts and reduced unemployment benefits that severely alienated many in his party. The result was a reanimated Left Party, the far-left political movement that partially grew out of the former East German communist party.

                This time, leading German politicians have warned, Merkel's asylum policies could provide a shot in the arm to the country's right-wing populists. One member of her government warns that her stance on migrants is an "aid program for the AfD," a reference to the anti-immigration party Alternative for Germany. The party, which received 4.7 percent of the vote in Germany's last general election, is currently polling at 8 percent, according to a survey released on Saturday.

                Photo Gallery
                7 PhotosPhoto Gallery: Fear and Loathing
                CDU members say that Merkel's only option for freeing herself from the trap in which she currently finds herself is that of rapidly reducing the number of immigrants arriving in Germany. But it doesn't currently look as though that is a realistic possibility. Some 500,000 refugees have entered the country since the beginning of September, and there is no end in sight. "Prepare for the eventuality that in the coming weeks, 10,000 to 12,000 refugees will arrive at the border each day," a member of the Coordinating Committee inside of Germany's Interior Ministry said last Wednesday, quoting from a communiqué from the Austrian Interior Ministry.
                The situation at Germany's borders has indeed become dramatic. Last week, for example, Austrian authorities brought over 7,000 refugees to the German border and simply unloaded them there at 3:30 a.m. One day later, Emily Haber, state secretary in Germany's Interior Ministry, said: "We have to prevent a repeat of such chaotic scenes at the German border." She then added: "That was a clear violation of the agreements."

                One exhausted aid worker spoke of a "humanitarian catastrophe." And SPD parliamentarian Christian Flisek from the German border city of Passau said: "We are transforming our border areas into the country's refugee camp. It can't continue indefinitely."

                The mood isn't just becoming critical at the border. In late October, 215 mayors in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia wrote a letter to Chancellor Merkel and to the state's governor, Hannelore Kraft, saying that their ability to cope with the situation had been exhausted. Almost all available shelters were full to overflowing, they wrote, and even providing people shelter in tents or containers was hardly possible anymore. Furthermore, the municipalities are so busy with managing the inflow of refugees "that we are unable, or only partially able, to fulfill our other municipal responsibilities," they wrote in the letter. At almost exactly the same time, five municipal politicians from another region in the state sent an additional letter of protest to Governor Kraft's office.

                'Great Difficulty'

                There is indeed much that is no longer working. The federal government has still not made the 40,000 emergency beds available that it promised back in September during an emergency summit at the Chancellery. Furthermore, underage migrants are often put on trains unaccompanied and sent across the country. And it still often takes more than six months before refugees can even file their applications for asylum.

                Photo Gallery
                6 PhotosPhoto Gallery: Feeling the Strain
                Jörg Warncke, mayor of the municipality of Lachendorf in Lower Saxony, groans. His city hall has exactly 32 employees and, until recently, only one of them was responsible for welfare cases, low-income medical care cases and asylum-seekers. Now, Warncke has diverted sufficient funds from the budget to hire a second case worker and has also charged the municipality's IT expert, in addition to two employees who had been responsible for kindergartens, with finding possible refugee shelters.
                "We are managing the situation only with great difficulty," Warncke says. He says he has been unable to find someone in the area who speaks Arabic and that they only have one translator for Turkish and one for Kurdish. "At the beginning, we could hardly communicate with the people. Luckily, some of the first refugees who came to us have managed to learn a bit of German and can help out as interpreters."

                The chancellor is fully aware of the difficulties encountered on the local level and she knows about the lack of sufficient shelters, of interpreters and of judges who can make decisions on individual asylum cases. But she doesn't have a solution for quickly easing the mounting pressures. And one reason for that is that Merkel, long renowned for keeping her cards close to her chest, has been unprecedentedly explicit about where she stands on the refugee crisis. Essentially, she views the crisis through the prism of two questions: Can Germany reduce the number of arriving refugees by way of national legislation? And: Should the government say that there is a limit to Germany's capacity? She has clearly and explicitly answered both questions in the negative.

                Merkel believes it is impossible for Germany to seal off its borders. For her, the erection of a fence would not just be ineffectual, but would also represent the end of the European ideal. Having grown up in communist East Germany, she is from a country that cut itself off with walls and barbed wire -- and she doesn't want to relive the experience. She views all other proposals that have been made as mere political posturing.

                Unshakable Optimist

                That also explains why she has stubbornly avoided establishing a maximum number of refugees that Germany can accept, as her nominal political ally Horst Seehofer has repeatedly demanded. How high, after all, should such a maximum be? And how can it be enforced? Merkel doesn't believe that there is a satisfactory answer to such questions. It may be that Germans want her to establish a limit to the burden Germany can accept. But it would be politically dangerous for Merkel to identify a maximum that couldn't be adhered to. That is her view of the situation.

                It would be inaccurate to say that Merkel is alone in her view of the situation. Chancellery Chief of Staff Peter Altmaier has long been among her closest confidants and he unconditionally supports her position on the refugee crisis. Indeed, she recently named Altmaier as her refugee coordinator.

                Chancellery Chief of Staff Peter Altmaier remains a staunch supporter of Merkel's refugee policies.Zoom
                DPA
                Chancellery Chief of Staff Peter Altmaier remains a staunch supporter of Merkel's refugee policies.
                To be sure, the list of potential candidates for the job wasn't long. Christian Democrat éminence grise Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany's finance minister, has clearly articulated his skepticism in recent weeks and Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière is closer to Seehofer on the refugee issue than he is to Merkel. But Altmaier was a natural choice for other reasons as well. For one, he shares Merkel's faith that, even as the pressure is intense, the chancellor will be able to resist it for much longer than critics believe -- perhaps even long enough to create an EU distribution system and reach an agreement with Turkey, even if neither of them believe that such moves would rapidly reduce the numbers of refugees.
                For another, though, Altmaier is an unshakable optimist and studiously avoids the kind of alarmism many in his party propagate -- largely because he has long had a different approach to the issue of immigration than most others in his party. At the end of former Chancellor Helmut Kohl's term in office, Altmaier -- who was a young CDU parliamentarian at the time -- joined with a handful of other young conservatives in an effort to change the party's approach to immigration. At the time, it was a viewpoint that placed him and Merkel at the fringes of the party. Things have changed since then, but the party is still largely mistrustful of immigration and fearful that German culture could be overwhelmed. Altmaier has no understanding for such worries.

                As a result, he defines Germany's refugee capacity differently than do most CDU members. Germany, he is convinced, is a rich country and can find a solution to the logistical problem it is facing and can integrate even more refugees. Of course, the numbers of new arrivals will change the country, but that doesn't scare Altmaier in the slightest.

                It is possible, of course, that Altmaier overestimates Germans, but he is right when he points out that his fellow countrymen are not unmoved by the fate of the refugees. "The incidents this spring clearly showed that Europe cannot tolerate seeing people in need drowning," he said.

                Unmovable

                Still, Altmaier knows, as does Merkel, that they can't simply ignore the building pressure and the growing skepticism of her political path -- which is why they are open to finding a compromise with the CSU, such as entering into negotiations with the SPD over so-called transit-zones. The idea is that of establishing zones on the margins of Europe where refugees can be sheltered and asylum requests can be processed before approved asylum applicants are distributed throughout Europe. Neither Merkel nor Altmaier believe such negotiations will amount to much, but they are eager to show that they are willing to seek middle ground.

                Things are moving elsewhere as well. The Chancellery, for example, agrees with the Interior Minister's proposal of sending back rejected asylum-seekers from Afghanistan. A Chancellery source said that the extension of Germany's military engagement in Afghanistan could be used to establish safe zones, allowing for the return of asylum seekers.

                Another issue of dispute among German conservatives is that of allowing refugees to send for their families once they have received asylum status. And that problem could ultimately be resolved by the mere passage of time. At the moment, for example, there are so many asylum applications outstanding that the number of applications for family reunification remains low.

                Still, despite the concessions Merkel has thus far made, she remains unmovable when it comes to her central convictions. She refuses to define a maximum number of refugees that Germany can accept and she refuses to consider the construction of a border fence.

                As such, Seehofer isn't likely to back down. His quibbles, after all, aren't with certain elements of Merkel's refugee policy. He disagrees with her approach in its entirety and insists that Berlin place a cap on the number of people the country can take in.

                He also faces tremendous pressure in his home-state of Bavaria. Located on the border with Austria, the state has borne the brunt of the refugee crisis and for weeks, mayors, municipal politicians and volunteers have been complaining that they have reached their limit. The atmosphere within the CSU's state parliamentary fraction has become pre-revolutionary. Seehofer cannot afford the kind of equanimity that characterizes Altmaier.

                Under Attack from an Ally

                Instead, he has spent the past several weeks launching attack after attack against Merkel. He has said, for example, that Merkel's decision to take in the refugees trapped in Hungary is a choice "that will occupy us for quite some time to come." And he invited Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, who built a fence on his country's southern border to keep the refugees out, to a party event in Bavaria.

                Bavarian State Premier Horst Seehofer (right) invited Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán (left) to speak in Bavaria in September, thumbing his nose at Chancellor Merkel. Zoom
                AFP
                Bavarian State Premier Horst Seehofer (right) invited Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán (left) to speak in Bavaria in September, thumbing his nose at Chancellor Merkel.
                Seehofer, though, is himself skeptical of proposals to build a border fence and he isn't interested in changing German asylum policies. "Everybody knows that there isn't a lever to stop the flow of refugees," says one member of the CSU leadership. "But you have to give the people the feeling that you are interested in achieving that goal."
                Merkel is concerned about losing support should she be unable to live up to promises she has made. Seehofer is convinced that voters will turn their backs on the conservatives if they get the feeling that their worries aren't being taken seriously. But Seehofer also didn't believe that Merkel would remain so stubborn in her refusal to set an upper limit, which partially explains why he allowed the quarrel to escalate. At the beginning of October, he threatened "emergency defense" measures should Merkel not change course.

                A few days ago, a new implicit threat emerged when Seehofer declined to deny reports that the CSU could pull its ministers out of Merkel's government. The CSU currently holds three seats on Merkel's cabinet. And he has also opened yet another new front recently in the battle against Merkel. If Berlin continues to refuse establishing an upper limit, Seehofer said, his party may file a complaint with Germany's Constitutional Court.

                The fierce battle between Merkel's CDU and Seehofer's CSU is harmful to both sides. While the CDU's public approval ratings have fallen, so too have those of the CSU. The party now stands at 43 percent, roughly 5 percentage points fewer than when Bavarian voters last went to the polls two years ago. And for the CSU, winning the absolute majority in state elections is really the only thing that counts.

                Unleashing a Genie

                That's also one of the reasons Seehofer is putting up such a desperate fight, though at this point, he would likely be satisfied with even just a small gesture. "The words upper limit don't necessarily have to be uttered," says a person close to the party boss. "Merkel could also say that she will do all she can to ensure that the influx doesn't continue the way it has."

                But it's unlikely Merkel will even agree to that -- raising the possibility that Seehofer has unleashed a genie that he will no longer be able to shove back into the bottle. The longer Merkel ignores the CSU's increasingly insistent demands, the greater the possibility that the Bavarian party will lose credibility. To avoid that eventuality, Seehofer will ultimately have to follow up his bluster with action.

                Graphic: Heading for ConflictZoom
                DER SPIEGEL
                Graphic: Heading for Conflict
                Within the CSU's party group in the national parliament in Berlin, the mood is getting increasingly rebellious. "If we have nothing but vague plans for transit zones, then the disaster will take its course," warns the group's justice affairs coordinator, Hans-Peter Uhl. He says that Germany is so overstrained from the influx of refugees that it is self-evident the government must be prepared to turn people away directly at the border "always based on the principle of proportionality." He says he plans to move forward with other domestic policy specialists to submit a petition to Merkel's government calling for it to take more decisive action.
                But what happens if Merkel doesn't yield? Bavaria, after all, cannot simply close its borders.

                "The chancellor cannot just single handedly dictate the path. Instead we need to work together and agree on how the course is set politically," said Hans-Peter-Friedrich, deputy head of the joint parliamentary group of the CSU and Merkel's CDU. "Anything else would be in violation of the agreement governing our group," he says, adding that nobody wants to revoke these working agreements. But the former German interior minister also quietly conveyed the threat of doing just that. "In terms of Seehofer, I consider anything to be conceivable at the moment," says one member of the CDU's national party executive.

                Leftist Policies?

                Trouble is also brewing within Merkel's own party. On Wednesday night, a county chapter of Merkel's party held a town hall meeting focused on the issue of refugees at an inn in the town of Bopfingen in the southern state of Baden-Württemberg, a heartland of CDU voters. Some 50 residents met in a back room with three CDU politicians. The mood was far from positive.

                Thomas Trautwein, the head of the city chapter of the party, accused the chancellor of having sent a welcoming message around the entire world. "It's no longer possible to bring things under control again," he said. Winfried Mack, a member of the state parliament representing the town said, "The right to asylum is not there for us to take in entire peoples." Finally, Gunter Bühler, the mayor, said, "It's my opinion that we are not going to be able to tackle this as easily as the chancellor says."

                Then it was the audience's turn to speak. "Our chancellor has been pursuing policies that I would have expected from the left," said the first, noting that Merkel eliminated Germany's mandatory military conscription, she ordered the closure of the country's nuclear power plants and she made concessions to Greece in the debt crisis. And now? "Now she's even threatening to divide Europe."

                "We will not, at the bottom, be able to solve the problems created at the top," complained another. Then a third asked, "Does the chancellor even remember what's in the oath she took?" Yes, parliamentarian Mack said, defending his party boss before then slightly distancing himself from her. "I personally wouldn't have done that with the selfies (which Merkel took together with refugees), there was a certain amount of clumsiness in it." At this point you could hear people muttering the word "stupidity."

                At a protest on Oct. 10 held by the Alternative for Germany, a right-wing populist party, in Freilassing, the a border city where many of the thousands of refugees are arriving, a demonstrator held up a sign reading: "That is not my chancellor." Zoom
                DPA
                At a protest on Oct. 10 held by the Alternative for Germany, a right-wing populist party, in Freilassing, the a border city where many of the thousands of refugees are arriving, a demonstrator held up a sign reading: "That is not my chancellor."
                At a recent meeting of the CDU's national executive committee, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble reported that the mood in the party base had deteriorated to a "dramatic" degree, especially in southern Germany and in the eastern state of Saxony, where the state chapters of the CDU tend to be more conservative.
                In the Saxony chapter, general secretary Michael Kretschmer resorts to carefully selected euphemisms to describe the situation, saying, "The voice of the people is of course very present." That's one way of describing it. At a protest in the town of Schkeuditz near Leipzig, a CDU member could recently be seen holding up a placard reading, "Dethrone Merkel."

                Overstretched

                Christian Hartmann, the head of the party in the populous city of Dresden, said that his local chapter is divided. Some members have joined up with the right-wing populist Pegida movement, whereas others are attending the counter-protests. But, he adds, "The skepticism as to whether the political policies pursued thus far can be successful is gaining the upper hand. The general feeling is that we are structurally and organizationally overstretched."

                Take the state of Hesse, for example, where the state chapter of the CDU is also comparably conservative. "Of course many of our supporters and members are unsettled," says Elmar Bociek, who is running to become mayor next Sunday in the town of Sulzbach. During his campaign, he says, he has gone from door to door and the first issue on the tongues of people in most of the homes he visits is that of the refugees.

                Bociek is one of 34 CDU politicians at the municipal level who joined together four weeks ago to send an open letter to the chancellor in which they described "major concern for the future of our country." By disassociating himself from the chancellor's policies, Bociek has helped his campaign.

                "The people are already noticing that we have a different party base here than the national party," the local politician says. He believes the protests are starting to have an effect. With negotiations with Turkey, new asylum decisions and an initiative to secure better cooperation in Europe, it appears Merkel is starting to take action.

                Protesters with the Alternative for Germany Party at a demonstration in Berlin on Saturday hold up signs with slogans like, "Clear rules are needed for immigration," "Limit immigration" or "Mrs. Merkel, this isn't your country! Resign!"Zoom
                DPA
                Protesters with the Alternative for Germany Party at a demonstration in Berlin on Saturday hold up signs with slogans like, "Clear rules are needed for immigration," "Limit immigration" or "Mrs. Merkel, this isn't your country! Resign!"
                Next spring, elections are to be held in three German states: Saxony-Anhalt, Rhineland Palatinate and Baden-Württemberg. The election in the latter will be the most important because the CDU wants to correct a historic anomaly. The CDU had ruled in the state for 58 years until they were unseated by the Green Party in 2011, an affront the party still hasn't recovered from.
                But how will the party run against Winfried Kretschmann, the state's Green Party governor, when he is constantly praising the chancellor for her handling of the refugee issue? Party leaders in the state, under the leadership of Thomas Strobl, who is also a member of the national committee, are waffling. "The CDU Baden-Württemberg supports our chancellor," Strobl claims, even if people "are of a different opinion when it comes to one issue or the other."

                Such protestations of loyalty, however, are often indicators of deeper discontent. And there are open voices against the chancellor's policies in the state as well. Nikolas Löbel, a young CDU leader in the state, is calling for a "temporary stop to the acceptance of additional refugees and asylum-seekers." Otherwise Germany threatens to be "infiltrated."

                District CDU chair Thomas Bareiss, who is also a member of the federal parliament, demonstrated his rejection of Merkel's policies in his choice of a keynote speaker. He invited Zoltán Balong, Hungary's education minister, to speak at a recent local party event. "With our fence, we are also protecting Germany's border," said the close confidante to Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.

                Merkel herself is expected to make nine appearances during the election campaign in Baden-Württemberg. When she does, she will find a party that is torn -- because although the number of her fans in the state has shrunk, they have not disappeared. In mid-October, 26 mayors and 10 members of the state parliament, signed a letter stating that they support her "clear position" and her "endurance."

                But in eastern German states, the image is clear. "The mood in the CDU in Saxony is similar to that of the CSU," says Matthias Rössler, the CDU president of the state parliament. On Nov. 14, the state chapter will be holding its own party conference. As their guest speaker, they have invited Horst Seehofer, the man who himself recently invited Orbán.

                Perils for Merkel

                It's a strange development for Merkel. It has been a long time since she has faced such dissent. But there's another reason that the development could become perilous for Merkel. Recently, greater scrutiny has been placed on Merkel's policies of the past months -- and it has revealed that she has made some far reaching mistakes
                .

                For one, Merkel's Chancellery responded far too late to the historic dimensions of the crisis. Already as far back as February, local communities had already begun ringing the alarm for help. In May, transit country Serbia began preparing for larger refugee movements. But officials in Berlin did nothing
                .

                The Interior Ministry refused to allow the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to hire additional staff for processing asylum applications and thousands of old cases were left unprocessed. Later, when it became clear that the task at hand was too much for the head of the agency, he still remained in office for weeks.

                In June, CDU members of the state legislature in Baden-Württemberg warned in Berlin that the situation could get out of hand, but federal government officials didn't even begin to think about switching into crisis mode.


                And then came Hungary. Merkel's decision to open the border was correct. There was a humanitarian emergency and there was no time for lengthy consideration. But even correct decisions can have undesired consequences. Merkel failed to strongly state that taking in refugees in this way was an exception. It created the impression that Germany was prepared to accept every refugee who came to Europe. She didn't mean it that way, but that was the message that many wanted to hear.

                Playing into Orbán's Hands

                Merkel's move played right into the hands of Hungarian Prime Minister Orbán. He had wanted to suspend the Dublin Agreement, which requires asylum applications to be processed in the European country where refugees first arrive. Under Dublin, his country would have been forced to take in many of the refugees. The chancellor did him a favor in opening the borders and suspending the original rules.

                "A European problem was turned into a German one," Berlin's Tagesspiegel newspaper wrote in an editorial. And the point at which Merkel called for European solidarity came too late. Germany's partners understood action taken by the government in Berlin to be an invitation to simply pass the refugees on to Germany. Orbán accused Merkel of brazenness and even moral imperialism.

                All at once, the balance of power in the EU was turned on its head. As it turns out, the woman who until very recently had been hailed the "Queen of Europe" has insufficient leverage to force her European neighbors to help.

                Instead, Merkel has navigated herself into a corner. The fact that she has been abandoned by both her European neighbors and many within her own party has strongly reduced the chancellor's room for maneuver. Nor is any help from her coalition partner, the center- left Social Democrats (SPD), to be expected.

                Instead, the SPD are observing with barely concealed satisfaction how their seemingly invincible opponent is weakening herself. They seem to be taking a sit back and relax attitude, even though the party itself doesn't stand to profit from the chancellor's weakness due to its perpetually weak standing in public opinion polls, where it appears to have become stuck on 25 percent, a pitiful figure for a once large party.


                After initially expressing sympathy for Seehofer's demand to establish "transit zones," the party is now indicating an unwillingness to compromise. "We will not agree to the detention centers," said Thomas Oppermann, the head of the party's group in parliament. Instead he is calling for the further suspension of the Schengen Agreement. "Independent of that, however, we need to quickly apply assertive border controls and ensure that there are orderly conditions when it comes to entry into Germany."
                Merkel is wavering, but is there a chance she will actually fall? The threat has never been as great during her 10 years in office. At the same time, Merkel is also an experienced crisis manager who knows that her political survival is dependent on lowering the number of refugees.

                The CDU and the CSU tend to hold on to their leaders as long as they can continue to win elections. In March, voters will go to the polling stations in three German states. In that sense, Merkel has precisely four months' time to get the situation under control.
                Last edited by tankie; 03 Nov 15,, 19:17.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tankie View Post
                  Seems like your govt has its knives out for merkel ,,smell the ersatz yet ??
                  The government? The government is Merkel. Everyone else in the government is in there selected and approved by her and can just be gotten rid off as easily as well. To get rid of Merkel, she'd have to actively ask for it - and then have over 190 of the 504 reps of her coalition vote against her, on top of the entire opposition (which would likely rather abstain). Whether the CSU and its meager 56 reps are once again positioning itself against the CDU is meaningless. Seehofer may try to style himself as a modern Franz-Josef Strauß, but he would never measure up. And the CSU doesn't dare seriously entering into competition with the CDU for good reasons.

                  Besides, your media are behind the times. Seehofer and Merkel struck for unity today, signing a joint position paper which makes mention of "transit zones" but pretty much leaves all other CSU positions off the table. That way Seehofer has something to gloat about, while Merkel exactly knows she won't get that past her more important coalition partners.

                  Btw, there's only two parties that suffer politically from any refugee-resulting minor voter shift. That's the right-wingers, CDU and CSU - losing on both their edges, to the right to the AfD and to the center to the FDP, both of which would under current surveys enter parliament. We're talking minor shifts though, two to three percent on either side at most. Wouldn't lead to any sort of government change. Voting for those fringe parties just means you're voting for a Grand Coalition. The same that we have now, and that we've always had when people have voted for neonazis.

                  Originally posted by tankie View Post
                  In March, voters will go to the polling stations in three German states. In that sense, Merkel has precisely four months' time to get the situation under control.
                  Let's see, the states voting in March are...

                  Baden-Württemberg : Where a shift to the right would bring Merkel's party back into power. The state is led by a Green government with social-democrat coalition partner. Current surveys project a Grand Coalition - possibly also CDU-Greens, but highly unlikely since a) they have near-identical voter shares and locally too similar politics and b) Boris Palmer, the spokesman of the conservative pro-CDU wing within the Greens has just been curbstomped about his defeatist attitude with regard to refugees by the Green minister-president of the state.

                  Rhineland-Palatinate : Where, gee, the exact same could happen. Currently Social-Democrat government with green coalition partner, surveys project likely Grand Coalition - or, if the postcommunists don't make it in, even Merkel favourite CDU-FDP coalition.

                  Saxony-Anhalt : Who the fuck cares about Saxony-Anhalt and its at most 2 million possible voters? Anyway, currently Grand Coalition. If they'd politically warm up to it could become a Red/Red state like their neighbor. Unlikely though, so probably Grand Coalition continued.

                  Saxony-Anhalt will be interesting insofar as the AfD and NPD will slug it out for the sizable East-German Neonazi voter share. It's not like it means anything though, East-German elections are generally considered irrelevant and only a measure of current protest voter levels.
                  Last edited by kato; 04 Nov 15,, 00:58.

                  Comment


                  • Over all I still think Germany is in deep do do as time will eventually tell. I know I sure as hell would not want many, if any, young male refugees between 17-25 or even 30. Especially unmarried. When they don't achieve their European dream, like the American dream, because of low paying jobs they usually turn to crime. With that many there they could turn out to be quite a group to handle should they organize into gangs which they will do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                      should they organize into gangs which they will do.
                      They'd run headlong into an established culture there though. Gangs in Germany tend to be ethnically monolithic, and there's too few of any singular ethnic groups among long-term refugees in any city in Germany to make a visible impact.

                      Good example for that is a recent clash in Hamburg, where a group of 5-10 kids from refugee backgrounds around age 15 were trying to be smart and stealing from punters in front of local brothels while those were haggling over prices with hoes. The albanian mafia running those didn't like that at all, bad for business and all that - though the real joke about that is that they didn't take it into their own hands at first. They instead complained to the police. Then they beat up those boys two days later when they were still there.

                      Comment


                      • Kato , your assumption that the uk media is behind the times is a laff , I posted from der spiegel int , stay safe in your bubble bud , its about to burst and merkel the dictator is gonna be a casualty IMO .

                        Check out your govt ,,oops i mean Dictator , ringing your suicide note , shes selling you out .

                        https://youtu.be/j_8kc19DL70
                        Last edited by tankie; 04 Nov 15,, 16:18.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kato View Post
                          They'd run headlong into an established culture there though. Gangs in Germany tend to be ethnically monolithic, and there's too few of any singular ethnic groups among long-term refugees in any city in Germany to make a visible impact.

                          Good example for that is a recent clash in Hamburg, where a group of 5-10 kids from refugee backgrounds around age 15 were trying to be smart and stealing from punters in front of local brothels while those were haggling over prices with hoes. The albanian mafia running those didn't like that at all, bad for business and all that - though the real joke about that is that they didn't take it into their own hands at first. They instead complained to the police. Then they beat up those boys two days later when they were still there.
                          I'm perplexed as to how 5-10 kids, and their situation, compare to several thousands of 17-25 adult males who are ethnically the same for the most part. Anyway today is today and two years from now is two years from now and far more critical.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                            several thousands of 17-25 adult males
                            Which are diluted among the general population. Several thousand at federal level make a few hundred at most at state level; a few dozen per district or region; at most a dozen per city; in the end you're at those 5-10 kids.

                            Unaccompanied minors don't go into the general refugee system btw, but are settled into the existing distributed youth care system for orphans and such.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kato View Post
                              Which are diluted among the general population. Several thousand at federal level make a few hundred at most at state level; a few dozen per district or region; at most a dozen per city; in the end you're at those 5-10 kids.

                              Unaccompanied minors don't go into the general refugee system btw, but are settled into the existing distributed youth care system for orphans and such.
                              You ever heard of ghettos. Anyway your country, your future. I will probably give Germany 100 years before the culture changes......
                              Seek Save Serve Medic

                              Comment


                              • 100 years , that's very generous , shorter than that methinks unless drastic measures are taken ,NOW.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X