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  • #31
    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    Frankly that is BS. Assad did not kill all those 190k people. That is the UN estimate for the entire death toll till now, which includes combatants from both sides in addition to civilians. It's a frickin civil war. You make it sound like Assad massacred 190k peaceful protesters. Assad may be a power-hungry dictator, but lets not go overboard here.
    ok so give your explanation as to why ISIS exists ?

    What was the catalyst.

    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    And the minority threatened with misgovernance in Iraq has a nice way of responding - kill the other minorities in the area they dominate , rape women and sell them as slaves. ISIS fighters are mostly locals is what we are told.
    What got them into the fighting game. What made them more deadly than previous movements.

    We've seen a steady progression in brutality.

    hesbollah makes the PLO look tame, AQ makes hezbollah look tame and now ISIS is taking top spot.

    Syria is a multi-denominational country that has not had a history for sectarian violence. This needs to be emphasised.

    Hama which was their low point in '81 was about challenging authority. So Bashar folows his father and ups it a few notches which even his father would not have done. He manages to hold on to his position.

    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    You are doing a disservice here by propagating the false-victimhood that the wahhabi financiers from Saudi Arabia and other wealthy Arab states use to brainwash the recruits.
    What is the extent of responsibility Assad & Maliki bear ?

    nobody stopped those wahabi financiers as the west could do squat.

    Syria gave me a good idea of what it is like to fight Russians. They jam you good.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Sep 14,, 00:39.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      ok so give your explanation as to why ISIS exists ?

      What was the catalyst.
      Just so we are clear the reason I agreed with Firestorm was based on your comment that Assad was responsible for 190K deaths. That, specifically, is incorrect yet that is how your statement comes across. It is a civil war and both sides are dirty.

      Now what was the catalyst for ISIS. To me that is too simplistic a question as no doubt it is many factors one of which is Assad but not the only one. I consider Assad as providing an opening. An opening for any group to come along and co-opt the situation to their advantage. The civil war was to rid Syria of Assad, by FSL, however they and their cause were co-opted. A group came along, far more violent, who was most likely already in quiet existence and waiting for an opportunity. Syria, Assad and the FSL provided it and they have morphed it into their Caliphate cause. They never cared about Syria, Assad, the FSL, the Syrian people on whatever side, they only cared about their narrow goal and eliminating any and all in their way. At the same time they would tweak the West by their brutality and beheadings. So there is still one group that believes war is an all out affair with only one rule - eliminate ALL those opposed ruthlessly and use that fear to their advantage.

      The chaos in Iraq (there is profit in chaos and conveniently next to Syria) and Wahabists are more two more factors of which I am sure there are some others but will leave it at that for now.

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      • #33
        With Cameron, the leader of one of the world's most powerful Christian countries, openly warning of a "caliphate" on the borders of the Mediterranean, it looks more and more likely to me at least that the world is heading back (being pushed?) into a new round of crusade / jihad type prolonged exchanges between the Christian and the Muslim world.

        Many decades. Century long even, maybe more. If you look back, we've already been through 30-40 years already. Kingdom of Heaven redux.

        I know Russia is largely Christian, even if leading the "other" camp contemporary politics-wise, but India and China will in my opinion be very wary and do all in their power to keep to the sidelines of this.

        As I said before (for another day and age), its not our fight.

        Yet.
        Last edited by sated buddha; 27 Sep 14,, 12:21.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          Just so we are clear the reason I agreed with Firestorm was based on your comment that Assad was responsible for 190K deaths. That, specifically, is incorrect yet that is how your statement comes across. It is a civil war and both sides are dirty.
          Its not incorrect. I followed the arab revolutions as they started and Assad cracked down with an iron fist from the beginning. Even kids were not spared and they were the ones who started it demonstrating outside the syria telecom office and the ministry of interior. Those 190k died on his watch, their blood is on his hands. He did everything to make that civil war happen.

          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          Now what was the catalyst for ISIS. To me that is too simplistic a question as no doubt it is many factors one of which is Assad but not the only one.
          Its a question that has to be answered because nobody knows who the hell these upstarts are and have to know why they should care.

          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          I consider Assad as providing an opening. An opening for any group to come along and co-opt the situation to their advantage. The civil war was to rid Syria of Assad, by FSL, however they and their cause were co-opted. A group came along, far more violent, who was most likely already in quiet existence and waiting for an opportunity.
          Based in Iraq thanks to Maliki. Iran has defnitely had a significant role to play but who permitted them into the country, its both of these leaders. If they refused things would have been different. So yeah, i put it down to both of them.

          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          Syria, Assad and the FSL provided it and they have morphed it into their Caliphate cause. They never cared about Syria, Assad, the FSL, the Syrian people on whatever side, they only cared about their narrow goal and eliminating any and all in their way. At the same time they would tweak the West by their brutality and beheadings. So there is still one group that believes war is an all out affair with only one rule - eliminate ALL those opposed ruthlessly and use that fear to their advantage.
          The militants ie Nusra in Syria are not into the Caliphate or have global ambitions, they are strictly for now Syria facing. ISIS has global ambitions, it does not end with Caliphate.

          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          The chaos in Iraq (there is profit in chaos and conveniently next to Syria) and Wahabists are more two more factors of which I am sure there are some others but will leave it at that for now.
          Saudis, Kuwaitis, Emiratis & Qataris. The first two have significant Shia populations and feared for unrest in their own countries.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Sep 14,, 13:11.

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          • #35
            This extremist was on 60 Minutes last night. Quite the hypocrite when you listen to him. Wants to have his cake and eat it to.

            Campaigning for ISIS in the West - CBS News

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            • #36
              Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
              This extremist was on 60 Minutes last night. Quite the hypocrite when you listen to him. Wants to have his cake and eat it to.

              Campaigning for ISIS in the West - CBS News
              You dont say ? hypocrite huh , spot on m8y and receives too much media attention to spout his bile .imo

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxUD3G5_cM

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              • #37
                Was he born in Britain or immigrate?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                  Was he born in Britain or immigrate?
                  Born there I believe. He's an attention hound who is probably more widely hated within the muslim community than outside it. He gets support from a small group of followers by 'sticking it to the man' media stunts that make him look WAY more important than he actually is. Gives the media their 'crazy Muslim guy' pretty much on tap whenever they want. You won't find him within a continent of anything actually dangerous. Not his style.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    Born there I believe. He's an attention hound who is probably more widely hated within the muslim community than outside it. He gets support from a small group of followers by 'sticking it to the man' media stunts that make him look WAY more important than he actually is. Gives the media their 'crazy Muslim guy' pretty much on tap whenever they want. You won't find him within a continent of anything actually dangerous. Not his style.
                    If that is the case then this 60 Minutes segment was right up his alley in serving his purpose for media attention. Now he got media attention in the U.S. where he never had much to begin with. He got some at prime time Sunday evening on a major US network.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                      Born there I believe. He's an attention hound who is probably more widely hated within the muslim community than outside it. He gets support from a small group of followers by 'sticking it to the man' media stunts that make him look WAY more important than he actually is. Gives the media their 'crazy Muslim guy' pretty much on tap whenever they want. You won't find him within a continent of anything actually dangerous. Not his style.
                      That small group of followers has now sent several hundred Britons to fight for ISIS...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        That small group of followers has now sent several hundred Britons to fight for ISIS...
                        All from that group?
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                          Was he born in Britain or immigrate?
                          Born here unfortunately and lives on welfare handouts
                          https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...lCVXOtGir9Tkrg


                          https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...vaz3wSv5prJScw

                          Boils my piss .

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                            This extremist was on 60 Minutes last night. Quite the hypocrite when you listen to him. Wants to have his cake and eat it to.

                            Campaigning for ISIS in the West - CBS News
                            This is one good reason why India & Pakistan have to get their normalisation act together. People think the ME is where all the muslims are. Not true.

                            The subcontinent holds 40%, throw in Indonesia and the figure rises to 60%.

                            If these three countries can set an example for muslims worldwide of peaceful, prosperous, co-operative co-existence then idiots like Choudary won't be able to counter.

                            Arab spring is another but its on the backfoot for now.

                            This is a fight for muslim hearts & minds, it has to be waged and won by muslims.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Nov 14,, 17:41.

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