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  • Originally posted by MrSecond View Post
    So, Nicholas Sarkozy would be Mykola Sarkozy if he headed the Ukrainian government. Sounds cool. :)
    And if he then continues to Russia, he will be Kolya Sarkozy? :Dancing-Banana:
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      And if he then continues to Russia, he will be Kolya Sarkozy? :Dancing-Banana:
      In Russia he will be Kolya for friends, Kolyan for very close friens, Kolyenka for his girlfriend, Nikolai Palych Sarkozy for colleges, and may be somebody else. :)

      Comment


      • In the Ukraines, he would be "asshole"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          In the Ukraines, he would be "asshole"
          But, but, this is his second name in France, too.
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
            From the esteemed VV Putin yesterday: "I'm sure the Ukrainian people will sort this out and Russia is not going to interfere."
            January 29, 2014

            In an echo of trade difficulties the two countries faced last August, Ukraines Employers Federation said the countrys exporters are again facing delays on the border after Russia placed additional requirements, imposed fees and subjected them to more detailed inspections. The changes went into effect yesterday, the group said in a website statement. All this is very, very predictable from Moscow, as it tries to heap the pressure on Ukrainian politicians to form an administration which is not EU-oriented, Timothy Ash, a London-based strategist at Standard Bank Group Ltd., wrote by e-mail.
            Source

            That didn't take long.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • They are not interfering the internal affairs of Ukraine. They merely protect their own interests.

              Canadian beef farmers fight US meat label rules - The Denver Post
              Can you apply the same standard?
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • Russia doesn't interfere in Ukrainian internal affairs. The same as Europe and USA.

                Comment


                • Europe demands to sign the unprofitable agreement.
                  Russia proposes the free trade zone.
                  Europe and USA threaten to put sanctions against the Ukrainian government.
                  Russia reduces the gas price.
                  Europe and USA demand to withdraw the police forces from the center of Kiev.
                  Russia gives Ukraine the soft loan.
                  Europe is not going to cancel a visa mode for Ukraine.
                  There are no visas between Russia and Ukraine.
                  The European officials support and encourage the riots in Kiev.
                  Russian officials even don't show up themselves in Kiev.
                  Europe proposes to be the intermediary for settlement.
                  Russia says the Ukrainians have to handle on their own.

                  Russia is bad, Europe is good.
                  Pure logic.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MrSecond View Post
                    Russia doesn't interfere in Ukrainian internal affairs. The same as Europe and USA.
                    Originally posted by MrSecond View Post
                    Europe demands to sign the unprofitable agreement.
                    Russia proposes the free trade zone.
                    Europe and USA threaten to put sanctions against the Ukrainian government.
                    Russia reduces the gas price.
                    Europe and USA demand to withdraw the police forces from the center of Kiev.
                    Russia gives Ukraine the soft loan.
                    Europe is not going to cancel a visa mode for Ukraine.
                    There are no visas between Russia and Ukraine.
                    The European officials support and encourage the riots in Kiev.
                    Russian officials even don't show up themselves in Kiev.
                    Europe proposes to be the intermediary for settlement.
                    Russia says the Ukrainians have to handle on their own.

                    Russia is bad, Europe is good.
                    Pure logic.
                    Can you make a stand and back-up the claims you make with some links or examples?
                    I mean if you want a discussion instead of a rant.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Can you make a stand and back-up the claims you make with some links or examples?
                      Why not.

                      Russian presidential advisor Sergei Glazyev said Sunday that the new customs restrictions had been implemented because of the possibility of the EU and Ukraine signing an EUUkraine Association Agreement and establishing a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area (DCFTA) at summit scheduled to take place in Vilnius in November.
                      We are preparing to tighten the customs regime just in case Ukraine takes the suicidal step of signing an agreement of association with the EU, Glazyev told reporters Sunday. He added that the new customs measures would be required because European and Turkish goods, which would flood into the Ukraine after the signing of such a deal, could be re-exported to Russia.
                      The Federation of Employers of Ukraine, which represents the interests of thousands of companies that together account for some 70 percent of Ukraines GDP, has said that if the customs changes were permanent they could cost Ukrainian companies more than $2.5 billion by the end of this year.

                      In December 2012, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton criticized the initiative in an address to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
                      Its going to be called a Customs Union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that. But lets make no mistake about it, Clinton said, branding the move re-Sovietization.
                      Kremlin Warns Kiev Over 'Suicidal' Ukraine-EU Trade Deal | Russia | RIA Novosti
                      President Viktor Yanukovych discussed Ukraines bid for closer ties with EU at a meeting with members of the Ukrainian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs, the presidential press service said.
                      Lets put off the signing of the agreement for one year, if its possible. Give us an opportunity to prepare, give us a chance to buy equipment. This important request comes not only from me, but from other industrialists as well, Valentyn Landyk, the president of the Donetsk-based refrigerator maker Nord Group, said at the meeting.
                      Georgy Skudar, president of the machine maker NKMZ, said Ukrainian manufacturers currently face problems with selling their goods to members of the Russian-led Customs Union.
                      We are now talking about the association agreement with Europe, but no one there will welcome us, he said, adding that his company was unlikely to benefit from the free-trade zone and to be allowed to enter European markets.

                      Ukrainian Businessmen Ask President to Postpone EU Deal | World | RIA Novosti
                      Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov explained this decision by saying that the agreement is on hold until the sharp decline in the industrial production with the CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) is compensated by the European market. Ukraine has thus put on hold enhanced access to a European market of 360 million consumers in the name of economic health.
                      An analysis of the Russian and the European offers demonstrates the fundamental differences in the approaches. The Russian offer reportedly included the lowering of gas prices twofold, access to the Russian market for large Ukrainian industrial groups, $20 billion of financial support with no strings attached and, potentially, political support for President Viktor Yanukovych in the presidential elections scheduled for 2015.
                      The Russian carrot also came with a stick. Since August 2013, the Russian authorities have blackmailed the Ukrainian government by blocking most of its exports to the Russian market. In 2013 trade between Ukraine and Russia decreased by 25 per cent. This gave an advanced taste of possible trade sanctions the Russian authorities could apply to Ukraine if the Association Agreement with the EU were signed.
                      The European offer was one of modernization, of the political, judicial and economic environment. It demanded reforms, including enhanced rule of law, improved democratic standards, respect for human rights and inclusive economic development. Prospective visa-free travel to the EU was also on a table. The EU free trade deal with Ukraine, according to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, was the most ambitious agreement ever offered to a partner country. But it could only bear fruit over the medium to long term. The Russian offer pays off now.
                      The EU Has Not Failed Ukraine | Chatham House: Independent thinking on international affairs
                      French President: EU cant be asked to pay for signing association agreement

                      After Ukraine refused to sign the association agreement with the European Union (EU), French President Francois Hollande emphasised in Vilnius that the EU does not pay for co-operation.
                      Speaking to Vilnius journalists at the Eastern Partnership summit in Vilnius, the French leader said that the Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovychs strive to get a bonus for the signing is unacceptable.
                      You cannot, as the Ukrainian President would want, ask for a certain amount and ask us to pay for Ukraines accession to the association agreement, he said.
                      French President: EU can't be asked to pay for signing association agreementThe Lithuania Tribune
                      Ukraine scores $15 bln from Russia, 33% gas discount
                      After stringing along Russia, the EU and the Ukrainian people, President Viktor Yanukovich has inked an agreement worth $15 billion in securities and from January 1, can start buying Russian gas for $268 instead of $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
                      "For the purpose of supporting the Ukrainian budget the Russian government has made a decision to invest part of the National Welfare Fund, to the tune of $15 billion, in Ukrainian government securities," Putin said.
                      Ukraine "is our fully-fledged strategic partner beyond any doubt, Putin said at the meeting, where the two presidents signed 14 separate agreements on space, engineering, defense and trade.
                      Ukraine scores $15 bln from Russia, 33% gas discount ? RT Business

                      Comment


                      • Ukraines Prime Minister Mykola Azarov has come back to the Europe Union and said that they will sign the trade and cooperation agreement in exchange for 20 billion ($27.6 billion) in aid.
                        Ukraine is on the verge of bankruptcy, and during the first three months of 2014 will have to pay just under 2.9 billion ($4 billion) in debt repayments and gas bills. The proposed 20 billion will help strengthen the countrys economy as it adapts to a closer integration with the European Union, and offer a form of compensation for the potential loss of the huge Russian market, which may shun Ukraine for favouring the EU.
                        The EU claims it has managed to set aside 610 million for macro-financial assistance once the Ukraine has signed an agreement with the International Monetary Fund, but President Yanukovich has stated that this sum is humiliating.
                        He explained that we are not waiting and not asking that they give us a present or compensate us, we are not talking about the European Union giving us the necessary technical support to bring our industry in line with European standards.
                        We are talking about the involvement in big mutually profitable projects, which have created new jobs in our enterprises over recent years.
                        Ukraine Asks the EU for
                        So, the European Union wants the country being "on the verge of bankruptcy" to sign an agreement, but they don't want to pay for that. But they suggest human rights, democratic standards and prospective visa-free travel. Maybe. Sometime. In the future.

                        And the same time:

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MrSecond View Post
                          Europe demands to sign the unprofitable agreement.
                          How do you weight it is unprofitable? Russian care about Ukraine's interest more the Ukrainians?
                          BTW EU is bigger trade partner to Ukraine then Russia. Well, was.

                          Russia proposes the free trade zone.
                          This is somehow beneficial for Ukraine, while the EU one is not?
                          Note that EU didn't blackmail Ukraine for signing or not with Russia.

                          Europe and USA threaten to put sanctions against the Ukrainian government.
                          Against officials, not the Government.

                          Russia reduces the gas price.
                          Why it increased it in the first place?

                          Europe and USA demand to withdraw the police forces from the center of Kiev.
                          Only that?

                          Russia gives Ukraine the soft loan.
                          Yep, Russia was willing to dodge this one, after EU refused to. If Russia refused it, as well, what would have happened?

                          Europe is not going to cancel a visa mode for Ukraine.
                          Why would they? There are plethora of technical thingies to be done in order to get on White Schengen.

                          There are no visas between Russia and Ukraine.
                          Were there any visas ever? How is the migration from UA to RU going?

                          The European officials support and encourage the riots in Kiev.
                          Link?

                          Russian officials even don't show up themselves in Kiev.
                          Neither does Yanukovich. Have you seen him in Kiev?

                          Europe proposes to be the intermediary for settlement.
                          What's wrong with that? This is not about EU and/or Russia, this is bout serious breach of rights that was imposed by the new laws, which were withdrawn, admitting it was a mistake. Too bad blood was shed just to reset.

                          Russia says the Ukrainians have to handle on their own.
                          Russia says a lot of things. From histerical messages about Ukrainian suicide to 'we are out of this'.

                          Russia is bad, Europe is good.
                          Russia made it look that way with putting Ukraine in the position to choose one of the two.
                          EU might be a better option in the longer run, for the same reasons you have bolded in your post. (enhanced rule of law, improved democratic standards, respect for human rights and inclusive economic development).
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • You must be joking.
                            Along the maidan lasts it was visited by the whole buch of politicians and officials from the West. The were Victoria Nuland, the US State secretary assistant, Geoffrey Pyatt, the US ambassador in Ukraine, Guido Westerwelle, the Germany foreign minister, John McCain, US senator, Yaroslav Kaczyński, Catherine Ashton, the EU representative for Foreign Affairs and many others. All of them expressed support and approval for protesters.

                            For example, what if Ukrainian or Russian officials visited occupy Wall street in the USA?

                            US Vice President Joe Biden has asked Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych to abandon the introduction of a state of emergency in the country and pull back security forces from the streets of Kyiv, reads a statement about a phone conversation between Yanukovych and Biden, which was posted on the White House's Web site.
                            US urges Ukrainian authorities to remove riot police from Kyiv streets
                            Russian Prime Minister Medvedev has asked the US President Barrak Obama to pull back security forces from the streets of New York.
                            And the same time in Kiev:

                            Poland will always support Ukraine in its eurointegration rate, said the vice-president of EuroParliament Yatsek Protasevic.

                            "We, Poles, will always hold opened doors and we will always support you ", Protacevic told people on Maidan in Kiev, he emphasized, he speaks on behalf of the president and the prime minister of Poland.

                            В акции оппозиции на Майдане участвуют европейские политики - Korrespondent.net
                            In a speech on Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden expressed his sympathy for the pro-European street protests in the Ukraine.

                            In Ukraine, hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets to demand a modern, democratic, prosperous future, which they see in Europe. And they look to us for help, Biden said, becoming the most senior Obama adminstration to condemn the governments weeks long crackdown on street protesters.

                            Bidens comments follow the visit to Kiev by Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, who also criticized Yanykovych and urged Ukraine to turn toward Europe. Nuland also handed out food to protesters in downtown Kiev.

                            Biden Backs Ukrainian Protesters - The Daily Beast
                            Everybody knows what Ukraine wants, except for Ukraine.

                            Comment


                            • When you say Russia puts Ukraine in position to choose one of two, that's not true.
                              Not Russia, actually. Not only Russia at least.

                              Barroso: Ukraine cant be CU member and have FTA with EU at the same time
                              European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso emphasizes the impossibility of simultaneous Ukraine's membership in the Customs Union and signing of the FTA agreement with the European Union.
                              "What we have to say clearly is that the country cant be a member of the Customs Union and have a deep and comprehensive free trade area with the European Union at the same time. It's impossible. However, I believe there's a pragmatic way to address this issue," European Commission President told a press conference after the 16th EU-Ukraine Summit in Brussels.
                              Barroso: Ukraine cant be CU member and have FTA with EU at the same time - ForUm

                              Comment


                              • After all, what intermediary one may talk about? EU and USA blame Ukrainian government for everything and support maidan. The double standards in action.
                                You say EU and USA put sanctions against officials, not the Government. Who are these officials? They are not the Government? It's the same blackmail, just another kind. Of course they cover their blackmail by concerns about human rights violations, but in fact its just a way to affect the Ukrainian government and make it to do what EU and USA want.

                                Highly likely, Doc, sometimes (very often) it looks like nobody cares about Ukraine. Isn't it?
                                If Joseph Biden and John Kerry from Washington know what Ukraine wants, why Russia cant care about Ukraine?

                                Comment

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