Global Slavery/Trafficking Reports 2013

[Oracle]

Oracle,

Education in a sense of teaching people that those are bad things and that they should oppose and report such behavior.

Yeah, okay. I get it.

Oracle,

The bit I bolded is precisely what I was referring to when I said 'education'. I wasn't thinking in a narrow academic or institutional sense, but in a broader sense of changing the way people view particular practices. That doesn't necessarily relate to levels of education or even intelligence. I think we are in furious agreement on everything except terminology.

I don't pretend for a moment that this is a quick or easy process to deal the problems you & others have identified. This stuff is multi-generational. it was in our societies, it will be in yours. The difference is that we can all now see more easily how we all compare to each other. The harder people work the sooner such issues will be improved, but that is a measure or relative speed, not an easily identifiable timetable.

Yes, we're talking about the same thing in here.

The issue I think is awareness here, as Dok has said.

[Oracle]

What exactly do you mean by highly educated?

Here is what is meant by highly educated. Let me add highly successful in that list too.

Alstom executive case: Forced to drink urine, confined in semi-nude condition, maid tells court

Education has nothing to do with moral conscience. It can be used to cure cancer on one hand and commit mass murder on the other.

Not disagreeing. Infact, education was not a point at all I raised.

If it weren't for panchayat raj, there would have been so many pending court cases in the backlog that villages would have resorted to anarchy to solve their problems. The media loves the panchayats because it can make 30min shows on them by talking to the unfavourable parties. Community rules are plain and simple - if you don't like the rules, leave, and some do just that.

There still are 1000s of pending cases in courts, I don't see anarchy anywhere. While it's true that Panchayat has its uses, I was referring to the illogical sense of morality that Khaps impose on people in their villages, especially on women.

The female race is a burden for almost all cultures around the world. The major shift in the status and dignity of the female race has come from economic development. Women who were once limited to child rearing have begun participation in the work force outside of their home. Majority of the indian women are still of the child rearing kind and their status will not improve unless they are trained to contribute in the work force of the economy. This is the reality of mankind, all talk about "humanity" is for the birds.

While I abhor the first sentence, let me clear the air for the rest of the quoted para.

Economic development in itself has no bearing on the social status of a woman unless the mindset of men change. There are many girls from well to do families who don't have the luxury of education. And there are women who are hurriedly married off as soon as their education is done. They don't have a choice to go out and experience the world, try to fend for themselves and be independent. Heck, they don't have any say in choosing their mate for the rest of their life. Those women are controlled sheep of the family. So, the patriarchal mindset that Indian society possess needs to be changed first. Won't be happening any time soon though.

What do you mean? Do you actually think that a human society that practices free sex and promiscuity can survive? There is nothing left of the legacy of kamasutras expect books and king size temples showing sexual activity. In the end, this society and its principles could not sustain(obviously).

No idea about that. I was not talking about free sex or promiscuity. Obviously you have not understood the context. The thing is issues which should be discussed are sidelined. Read the post in it's context again.

India, the nation state is not an isolated country. It has a history of more than 3000 yrs of wars and invasions.

Even the Kamasutra is a part of that 3000 years of history. Btw, what does this statement mean anyway?

The whole post is plain sensationalism

It's very hard to have a real discussion about the social issues concerning india on the internet without someone puzzling the whole discussion by dropping tabloid gossip bombs. By best guess is that it is a cultural trait.

Please elaborate in detail.

[Firestorm]

If it weren't for panchayat raj, there would have been so many pending court cases in the backlog that villages would have resorted to anarchy to solve their problems. The media loves the panchayats because it can make 30min shows on them by talking to the unfavourable parties.

Khap panchayats are not the same as village "Gram Panchayats". Gram Panchayats are constitutionally decreed local government bodies. Khap Panchayats are not constitutional bodies and are prevalent in only one state in India. They are essentially illegal the moment they start handing out judgements and punishments. They then become kangaroo courts.

Community rules are plain and simple - if you don't like the rules, leave, and some do just that.

Doesn't work like that. Khap panchayat's do not have any authority to make rules.

The female race is a burden for almost all cultures around the world.

You seem to be part of the problem to which Oracle is referring.

[Oracle]

Lecturer kills wife for studying MTech

BANGALORE: All 28-year-old HG Preetha wanted to do was complete her MTech course, but she paid a heavy price because her husband had only a BE degree.

Santosh Kumar smashed her head with a crowbar at their Manjunathanagar residence in Basaveshwaranagar on Monday night. She succumbed on Tuesday night.

Santosh, 32, an electronics lecturer at the Nadgir Institute of Engineering and Technology in Basaveshwaranagar , told police that he fought with Preetha after she refused to discontinue her MTech course.

In a fit of rage, he hit her with the crowbar. Preetha, from a Shimoga-based family of farmers, married Santosh from Chikmagalur eight months ago and joined BMS College of Engineering in Basavanagudi for MTech. Preetha’s brother H Pradeep , 25, said differences arose when she was to join the 4th semester.

She’s survived by her parents and Pradeep. “The couple was happy . Santosh planned to buy property in Bangalore for which he sought our financial assistance. Preetha had told him she’d take up a job and aid him financially,” Pradeep said.

Santosh was against Preetha pursuing MTech. “Some relatives would mock that his wife was more qualified than him,” claimed a neighbour. “Santosh assaulted Preetha around 9pm on Monday, and she fell unconscious . On seeing blood oozing from her head, he thought she’d died and fled home. A neighbour who saw Santosh rushing out peeped through the half-open door and called police in,” Pradeep said.

Neighbours and policemen shifted Preetha to Columbia Asia hospital. “Santosh returned home around midnight and we took him into custody,” a police officer said. Preetha’s father Gangadhar said he would like to donate his daughter’s organs.

Insecurity fed by society.

[bolo121]

The female race is a burden for almost all cultures around the world.

You are one nasty piece of work. Do you think you came into this world by immaculate conception?
A woman bore you for 9 months, endured the pain of birth and the drudgery of cleaning up after you for many years after.

[anil]

Cut the drama everyone . You act as the offended males who prescribe violent solutions whenever the media reports a girl being raped.

If you want to see real and actual equality between males and females then leave the "civilised" world and head to a tropical forest to witness the lifestyles of a hunter(male) gatherer(female) tribal community. Here the women form the core of the system. As the protestant missionaries penetrate these remote areas and bring these tribals into "civilisation", the community automatically sheds its tribal based gender egalitarian society and adopts a patriarchal system.

It's actually amazing and shocking to watch all this happen in front of our eyes since universities of the civilised world have taught us a contrasting perspective.

[Firestorm]

Cut the drama everyone . You act as the offended males who prescribe violent solutions whenever the media reports a girl being raped.

If you want to see real and actual equality between males and females then leave the "civilised" world and head to a tropical forest to witness the lifestyles of a hunter(male) gatherer(female) tribal community. Here the women form the core of the system. As the protestant missionaries penetrate these remote areas and bring these tribals into "civilisation", the community automatically sheds its tribal based gender egalitarian society and adopts a patriarchal system.

It's actually amazing and shocking to watch all this happen in front of our eyes since universities of the civilised world have taught us a contrasting perspective.

What has all that got do do with this comment:

The female race is a burden for almost all cultures around the world.

?

[Oracle]

Cut the drama everyone . You act as the offended males who prescribe violent solutions whenever the media reports a girl being raped.

So, criticizing societal evils seems a drama to you?

If you want to see real and actual equality between males and females then leave the "civilised" world and head to a tropical forest to witness the lifestyles of a hunter(male) gatherer(female) tribal community. Here the women form the core of the system. As the protestant missionaries penetrate these remote areas and bring these tribals into "civilisation", the community automatically sheds its tribal based gender egalitarian society and adopts a patriarchal system.

You have zero idea about tribal community. Please don't mislead posters. There are hardly any rapes committed amongst the tribal community. Whereas tribal girls from North-East getting raped, eve-teased and molested is a way of life in Indian metros. Do you know that amongst the Khasis, it is the male who after wedding goes onto his spouse' house to live for the rest of his life, or the Meiteis amongst whom women share the burden more right from conducting business in the marketplace or performing household chores?

Very poor way of deflecting the blame on protestant missionaries a.k.a West. I know now why you asked me for my ethnicity.

It's actually amazing and shocking to watch all this happen in front of our eyes since universities of the civilised world have taught us a contrasting perspective.

They taught us to rape? Dis-respect womenfolk? What exactly did they teach us? Try and broaden your horizon from the narrow perspective that you hold.

I'm aghast, instead of apologizing for the sick comment you're justifying your stance.

BF, you can ridicule me all you want though I didn't make a stupid comment.

Just go back in time 200-300 years ago and look at the treatment of women and compare it with today. The change(though not across the board, not yet) has come because of industrial revolution which has dragged and absorbed the female race with it. That particular event has been able to tame the men around the world.

It is obvious that you clearly disagree with me. I guess I outta look at your peoples glorious history wrt its treatment of females. Good job.

Respecting women doesn't start by mirroring what people in other countries might have done in the past. We need to see our shortfalls and then address them, not criticize other Nationalities. Btw, Australia, US, UK or the West in particular is not in the top 10 of the list, we do as # 1. Shameful.

[anil]

What has all that got do with this comment:?

The female race is a burden for almost all cultures around the world

Civilisation is nothing but Patriarchy itself

[anil]

Oracle,

I have no idea what you're going on and on about

I just explained to you that tribals respect women rights in a way that the civilised world cannot match. Then what the hell do you mean by misleading posters? You can read english(thats obvious) but you understand what you read?

The hill tribal society has been undergoing a massive change post baptist influence. The tribal women once feared getting kidnapped by men from neighbouring villages but christian influence has abolished that practice but at the same time the tribes are starting to absorb patriarchy which is nothing but a part of civilisation(religion).

They taught us to rape? Dis-respect womenfolk? What exactly did they teach us? Try and broaden your horizon from the narrow perspective that you hold.

Kid, show me a data of rapes in india and compare it with the world data. Lets continue it there shall we

Here's one


Im sure you're going to say that the data is false because the indian women must not be reporting rape to the poilce. Then I'm going to ask whether you're making an opinion based on an assumption. Then you're going to change the topic with a random rant.

Spare me the upcoming rubbish oracle because i've had this discussion over and over again on WAB and else where.

Whereas tribal girls from North-East getting raped, eve-teased and molested is a way of life in Indian metros.

I'll give you a simple task, find me data of 20 northeast women getting raped in indian metros in the last 5 years.

If you want, I can give you the names and ages of well over 20 civilians getting shot point blank and their bodies dumped in the gutters just because they don't look mongoloid in the last 5 years in the north-east region. Remember, I'm not even considering the death toll from grenade attacks on non-locals in that region.

Respecting women doesn't start by mirroring what people in other countries might have done in the past. We need to see our shortfalls and then address them, not criticize other Nationalities. Btw, Australia, US, UK or the West in particular is not in the top 10 of the list, we do as # 1. Shameful.

You must me new with statistics

[Oracle]

Oracle,

I have no idea what you're going on and on about

I just explained to you that tribals respect women rights in a way that the civilised world cannot match. Then what the hell do you mean by misleading posters? You can read english(thats obvious) but you understand what you read?

The hill tribal society has been undergoing a massive change post baptist influence. The tribal women once feared getting kidnapped by men from neighbouring villages but christian influence has abolished that practice but at the same time the tribes are starting to absorb patriarchy which is nothing but a part of civilisation(religion).


Kid, show me a data of rapes in india and compare it with the world data. Lets continue it there shall we

Here's one


Im sure you're going to say that the data is false because the indian women must not be reporting rape to the poilce. Then I'm going to ask whether you're making an opinion based on an assumption. Then you're going to change the topic with a random rant.

Spare me the upcoming rubbish oracle because i've had this discussion over and over again on WAB and else where.




I'll give you a simple task, find me data of 20 northeast women getting raped in indian metros in the last 5 years.

If you want, I can give you the names and ages of well over 20 civilians getting shot point blank and their bodies dumped in the gutters just because they don't look mongoloid in the last 5 years in the north-east region. Remember, I'm not even considering the death toll from grenade attacks on non-locals in that region.


You must me new with statistics

Anil,

Please go through post # 98. I have quoted your post and replied. Your assumptions about NE is flawed and I answered that in post # 98. In no way is Christian influence making the tribals absorb patriarchy. It's hilarious that when we're trying to examine the reasons why India is on top of the list of modern slavery, you come up with western universities' teachings, missionaries, tribals, influence of Christians and what not, and even cheer for the patriarchal mindset that is the main cause of social ills in India. Anyway, that is your POV and your choice to live with.

This post doesn't warrant anymore quoted reply as it is way off-topic. We're are not dealing with the rapes committed in India vis-a-vis other countries. A kind request, please don't address me as a 'kid'.

[anil]

Oracle,
Your knowledge of north-east is limited to wikipedia and yet you want to quote them for you

What about the khasi men who go to live in their MIL's house? Does it mean that the khasi men wash their own damn clothes and cook their own f$%king food?

What about the meitei women selling produce in the market? Is it any different than any agri marathi women selling her produce in each nook and corner of mumbai or maharashtra? Is it different than any koli women selling fish in the fish market across the western coast of india? Heck even in karnataka, andhra or tamil nadu, it the women you'll find in the bazaar selling their produce But I don't see these castes glorifying random junk about their community on wikipedia.

I made certain notes about the tribals, the civilised world, religion, patriarchy and their relations with each other. In no way have I singled out anyone. I have identified each of them for what they are. If you disagree with me then go ahead and disagree with me(no problem) but to say that I have been biased in favour of one against another is plain distraction.

btw, when I said "civilisation", I meant "religion". Civilisation is a synonym for religion. There is a saying which says that civilisation cannot climb hills(conquer tribal lands).

[Doktor]

Oracle,
Your knowledge of north-east is limited to wikipedia and yet you want to quote them for you

What about the khasi men who go to live in their MIL's house? Does it mean that the khasi men wash their own damn clothes and cook their own f$%king food?

What about the meitei women selling produce in the market? Is it any different than any agri marathi women selling her produce in each nook and corner of mumbai or maharashtra? Is it different than any koli women selling fish in the fish market across the western coast of india? Heck even in karnataka, andhra or tamil nadu, it the women you'll find in the bazaar selling their produce But I don't see these castes glorifying random junk about their community on wikipedia.

I made certain notes about the tribals, the civilised world, religion, patriarchy and their relations with each other. In no way have I singled out anyone. I have identified each of them for what they are. If you disagree with me then go ahead and disagree with me(no problem) but to say that I have been biased in favour of one against another is plain distraction.

btw, when I said "civilisation", I meant "religion". Civilisation is a synonym for religion. There is a saying which says that civilisation cannot climb hills(conquer tribal lands).

If I may correct you, Civilization is synonym for places with sewer system.

[anil]

If I may correct you, Civilization is synonym for places with sewer system.

That's good to understand as the last four months have been a period of uncivilisation across india

[Oracle]

Oracle,
Your knowledge of north-east is limited to wikipedia and yet you want to quote them for you

What about the khasi men who go to live in their MIL's house? Does it mean that the khasi men wash their own damn clothes and cook their own f$%king food?

What about the meitei women selling produce in the market? Is it any different than any agri marathi women selling her produce in each nook and corner of mumbai or maharashtra? Is it different than any koli women selling fish in the fish market across the western coast of india? Heck even in karnataka, andhra or tamil nadu, it the women you'll find in the bazaar selling their produce But I don't see these castes glorifying random junk about their community on wikipedia.

I made certain notes about the tribals, the civilised world, religion, patriarchy and their relations with each other. In no way have I singled out anyone. I have identified each of them for what they are. If you disagree with me then go ahead and disagree with me(no problem) but to say that I have been biased in favour of one against another is plain distraction.

btw, when I said "civilisation", I meant "religion". Civilisation is a synonym for religion. There is a saying which says that civilisation cannot climb hills(conquer tribal lands).

Mate, instead of presenting a volley or irrelevant arguments, could you please quote specifics of my post and present your argument. Let's do it for post # 92 & 98, you probably missed it. :)

Just to let you know, Wikipedia is the Gita of the uninformed.