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Julian Assange - Extradition or Asylum?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    OK, so he can be extradited to the US (because apparently you can't extradite people to the US from Britain???).
    :slap: /\

    Ecuador has now agreed to offer asylum to him .

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/assange-ins...3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
    Last edited by tankie; 17 Aug 12,, 21:56.

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    • #77
      The plot thickens...the do-nothing US-bashing OAS to weigh in. How fitting and ironic. The OAS building is just down the street from the White House.

      BBC News - Julian Assange row: Americas ministers to meet

      Foreign ministers from across the American continent will meet next Friday to discuss the impasse between the UK and Ecuador over Julian Assange.

      Ecuador has granted political asylum to the Wikileaks founder who took refuge at Ecuador's embassy in London in June.

      He faces extradition to Sweden over sexual assault claims, which he denies.

      Twenty-three members of the OAS (Organization of American States) voted to have the meeting in Washington DC. The US was one of three to oppose it.
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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      • #78
        Interesting that press freedom in Ecuador is under fire.

        It's becoming more and more obvious that Ecuador's president is in this for more than principle or sympathy. The head of Ecuador's chapter of Reporters without Borders says "In the end the issue of the sexual-assault charges in Sweden against Mr Assange are getting further and further away from the discourse in Ecuador... There is a series of interests at play here and not all of them have to do with Julian Assange or Wikileaks," he says.


        BBC News - Ecuador split on asylum for Wikileaks' Julian Assange

        Ecuador split on asylum for Wikileaks' Julian Assange
        By Will Grant BBC News

        A day after the decision to grant him asylum in Ecuador, Julian Assange's face looks out from every news stand in Quito.

        ....

        For others, there is a certain irony that Mr Assange has turned to Mr Correa for help as a fellow defender of free speech.

        Cesar Ricaurte is the director of Fundamedios, a press freedom organisation.

        "I think this is a sort of public-relations exercise," he says of the Assange decision. "It's an effort by the government to 'wash its face' - the face we see all the time in Ecuador."

        Mr Ricaurte says journalists in Ecuador who are critical of the government operate in a "climate of constant aggression and hostility".

        "Every week, there's something new. The government recently published photos of journalists considered to be 'enemies' in the state-run media, something which obviously puts those journalists at risk."

        He also claims the government has closed some 20 media outlets under Mr Correa, including radio stations and a TV channel, using what he called "arbitrary administrative pretexts". Others have been directly punished for their anti-government editorial lines, Fundamedios claims.
        Tension with Britain

        Nevertheless, the representative for Reporters Without Borders in Ecuador, Eric Samson, says a word of caution should enter the debate.

        The idea that Mr Assange is at risk of a second extradition from Sweden to the United States, where he could face charges which potentially carry the death penalty, is legitimate, Eric Samson argues.

        "It is a real fear, and can't be dismissed," he says.

        The entire diplomatic dispute is taking place in a climate of heightened tension with the UK following its handling of Argentina's reiteration of its claim to the Falkland Islands or Malvinas, around the 30th anniversary of the conflict.

        Certainly, many think that the tone of the communication about the little-known 1987 law was an implicit threat, and one which automatically raises tensions with South America, where many remember the interventionist role of the West during the Cold War only too well.

        In the end, as Mr Samson points out, the issue of the sexual-assault charges in Sweden against Mr Assange are getting further and further away from the discourse in Ecuador.

        "There is a series of interests at play here and not all of them have to do with Julian Assange or Wikileaks," he says.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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        • #79
          Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
          Interesting that press freedom in Ecuador is under fire.

          It's becoming more and more obvious that Ecuador's president is in this for more than principle or sympathy. The head of Ecuador's chapter of Reporters without Borders says "In the end the issue of the sexual-assault charges in Sweden against Mr Assange are getting further and further away from the discourse in Ecuador... There is a series of interests at play here and not all of them have to do with Julian Assange or Wikileaks," he says.


          BBC News - Ecuador split on asylum for Wikileaks' Julian Assange
          I disagree. it was as obvious as it could possibly be from the start. This is about a bit of political grandstanding aimed at embarassing the US. To be honest, given the utter contempt the US showed for the interests/opinions of most folk south of the Rio Grande for most of the C20th (it got better toward the end) I don't have an issue with a bit of payback. I do have a problem with refusing to let Sweden extradite an accused rapist to achieve that fairly insiginificant end.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
            I disagree. it was as obvious as it could possibly be from the start.
            Not to everyone.

            This is about a bit of political grandstanding aimed at embarassing the US.
            No. This is about a flea floating down the river with a hard on yelling, "raise the drawbridge". Speaking for the entire US population, I feel confident in saying that we are not embarrassed one iota by what Ecuador is doing, and if Ecuador's president thinks by defying UK law and casting aspersions on Sweden, he's embarrassing the US, he needs his head examined. The price he's paying, alienating two democratic countries, is way too high for that. It'll cost him. Already he's drawn attention to his efforts to silence the media in his country.



            To be honest, given the utter contempt the US showed for the interests/opinions of most folk south of the Rio Grande for most of the C20th (it got better toward the end) I don't have an issue with a bit of payback.
            What is this, a little southern hemisphere solidarity? "Utter contempt"! Really? That's coming at it a bit high.:)
            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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            • #81
              This may not be a conspiracy, but the charges against Assange seem quite dubious. Like one of the women threw a party in his honor after the alleged rape. Like the two women not going to the police until they spoke to each other and realizing that they had been cheated on.

              It does seem more like a case of the two women being out for revenge more than anything else.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                Not to everyone.
                Really? OK, if you say so.

                No. This is about a flea floating down the river with a hard on yelling, "raise the drawbridge". Speaking for the entire US population, I feel confident in saying that we are not embarrassed one iota by what Ecuador is doing, and if Ecuador's president thinks by defying UK law and casting aspersions on Sweden, he's embarrassing the US, he needs his head examined. The price he's paying, alienating two democratic countries, is way too high for that. It'll cost him. Already he's drawn attention to his efforts to silence the media in his country.
                Didn't say it was going to work. That said, you aren't the audience here - how you & other Americans might feel isn't what matters. I suspect it is playing somewhat better wiht the intended audience. That said, you have a point, 'defiance' might have been a better way to describe it.

                What is this, a little southern hemisphere solidarity? "Utter contempt"! Really? That's coming at it a bit high.:)
                No and no.

                No solidarity - we were permitted to keep our democracy.

                Contempt? a fair description. I'll spare you a list of C20th thugs, dictators & mass murderers sth of the Rio Grande who found US favour. Neither will I bother with those nations the US directly attacked, interevened in or even occupied. I suspect you are broadly aware of the facts. Suffice to say the US reserved the right to do pretty much what it wanted when it wanted with little or no regard for the locals. They are more keenly aware of this history than either of us & many will probably care deeply about it long after both of us have passed from this earth. Thus Correa gets a little propaganda victory at home on the cheap (for now anyways).
                Last edited by Bigfella; 18 Aug 12,, 09:02.
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                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  Really? OK, if you say so.
                  I still say the public does not see this as something Ecuador is doing for its own interests. You correctly saw it that way, as did others here. But the typical public reaction is more along these lines.

                  "The whole world should back Ecuador for giving Assange asylum and because this country is the first one to promote freedom of expression," said Mary Valenzuela, a 39-year-old restaurant owner
                  And many people believe this.

                  Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa said Ecuador... "never wanted to impede the investigation of a supposed crime. What we wanted to impede is the extradition to a third country."
                  What if that 3rd country was Venezuela or Cuba, but I digress.



                  ...That said, you aren't the audience here - how you & other Americans might feel isn't what matters. ...That said, you have a point, 'defiance' might have been a better way to describe it.
                  Yes, "embarrass" wasn't the right word. 'Defiance' works.


                  I suspect it is playing somewhat better wiht the intended audience.
                  It's a mixed bag. Some Latin American countries are mostly angry at the suggestion by GB that it might violate the Ecuadorean embassy's sovereignty. As for Assange, I'd venture to guess behind closed doors not a single nation in the world has much sympathy for him. What country would want their diplomatic cables purloined and dumped en mass in the hands of a man like that?

                  No solidarity - we were permitted to keep our democracy.
                  Yes, of course, once you could deal with it.

                  Contempt? a fair description. I'll spare you a list of C20th thugs, dictators & mass murderers sth of the Rio Grande who found US favour. Neither will I bother with those nations the US directly attacked, interevened in or even occupied. I suspect you are broadly aware of the facts. Suffice to say the US reserved the right to do pretty much what it wanted when it wanted with little or no regard for the locals. They are more keenly aware of this history than either of us & many will probably care deeply about it long after both of us have passed from this earth. Thus Correa gets a little propaganda victory at home on the cheap (for now anyways).
                  I don't think this is the place to argue the broader perspective of US intervention in Latin America. While US intervention was not always pretty or fully justified, it was for the most part in keeping with US national interests, e.g. the Monroe Doctrine. There is also a story to be told of the aid and economic assistance the US has given to Latin America. But I take your point, that from the perspective of Latin American, the past interventionist ways of the US still smart.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                  • #84
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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by InExile View Post
                      the charges against Assange seem quite dubious
                      There are no charges against Assange in a judicial sense. Sweden wants him to give a testimony on the case before deciding whether to charge him in the first place. Sort of a holding him as a material witness kind of thing. If he were charged he could refuse to do this.

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                      • #86
                        Assange: The WikiLeaks 'witch-hunt' must end | Politics and Law - CNET News

                        LONDON -- WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange today addressed his supporters and the media from his haven in the Ecuadorian embassy here, days after he was granted asylum by the Latin American country.

                        Assange, who faces extradition to Sweden, spoke for 10 minutes before retreating inside the building, and called for an end to the U.S.-led "witch-hunt" against WikiLeaks, its staff, and its supporters.

                        He described Ecuador's move to grant him asylum as "courageous" and outlined a number of points he wished to see in the future. But one of the stipulations of his asylum would be that he is not allowed to give political statements or face a rescinding of his status -- a balance he was surely careful to manage. Assange would have likely had his statement today vetted by Ecuadorian authorities. With his asylum conditions, it is likely the Ecuadorian authorities deemed the statement nonpolitical.

                        Assange said the U.S. must "dissolve its FBI investigation" and pledge not to act against journalists who are "shining the light on the rich and powerful."

                        more...


                        BBC News - Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

                        The 41-year-old said the United States must also stop its "war on whistleblowers".

                        He added: "The United States must vow that it will not seek to prosecute our staff or our supporters.

                        "The United States must pledge before the world that it will not pursue journalists for shining a light on the secret crimes of the powerful.

                        Mr Assange also said the United States was facing a choice between re-affirming the "revolutionary values it was founded on" or "dragging us all into a dangerous and oppressive world in which journalists fall silent under the fear of prosecution and citizens must whisper in the dark".
                        This guy is bonkers. In essence he is calling on the US to abandon the rule of law and give up it's right to keep secrets.

                        His reading of US revolutionary values is in la la land. No democratic nation ever adhered to the concept of 100% transparency in its international communiques.
                        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                          This guy is bonkers. In essence he is calling on the US to abandon the rule of law and give up it's right to keep secrets.

                          His reading of US revolutionary values is in la la land. No democratic nation ever adhered to the concept of 100% transparency in its international communiques.
                          Every time I hear this guy I am more & more convinced that in his mind he is the hero of his own movie. There is a 'living in a parallel universe' element to his public pronouncements. Unfortunately his worldwide fan club simply feeds the delusion.
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                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                          • #88
                            An infallible ego, one might say.

                            A prisoner of his own mind in a little house.

                            As good as being in a mental institution really....
                            Ego Numquam

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                            • #89
                              Whether he wishes to acknowledge such, he's become a mouthpiece for Rafe Correa. Nothing more.
                              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by S2 View Post
                                Whether he wishes to acknowledge such, he's become a mouthpiece for Rafe Correa. Nothing more.
                                And in the process he is now beholden to Correa such that if an Ecuadorean Bradley Manning slips him few thousand damning Ecuadorian secret documents, he would probably not put them on the internet out of gratitude. In short, by accepting asylum, Assange may have thus compromised his core principles. Of course, we won't know until he comes into possession of Ecuadorian secrets, or maybe we'll never know if he does. Anyway, don't look on Wikileaks for any sh*t on Ecuador.

                                If I was a reporter I'd ask him if he would ever put out Ecuadorean secrets? Wonder what he'd say.
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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