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Neonazi Terrorism in Germany

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  • Originally posted by kato View Post
    The AfD party is now formally under observation for extremism:
    For an example of the scale of what kind of extremism is involved here:
    • The brother of Franco A.'s girlfriend (that soldier posing as a refugee), Maximilian T., is currently a candidate on the AfD list for the next state election in Saxony-Anhalt. Sorta low chances of gettin in, he's #26 with the AfD currently holding 21 seats (i.e. they'd need to enlarge their share for him to get in).
    • Maximilian T. was stationed at the same base in France as Franco A. and arrested on suspicion of being part of his terror plot. He was released from jail after several months due to a lack of evidence sufficient to keep holding him and charges dropped for the same reason a year later.
    • Maximilian T. also has a side job working for the defense spokesman of the AfD, i.e. for their representative in the defense committee. As in, at the federal parliament.

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    • Originally posted by kato View Post
      In case anyone remembers the guy in Germany where they dragged a Panther tank out of his garden with military assistance back in 2015, that case is now (six years later) in court.

      The court is mostly contesting his 88m FlaK gun as a non-demilitarized weapon of war. The defense retort on it is that there's no 88mm ammunition available anyway - to the point of having an expertise drawn up stating it would cost at least 200,000 Euro and take five months to make a small batch of ammo for it professionally.

      The legal situation of the tank itself is somewhat complicated. He bought it as scrap in the 1970s in the UK and restored it - including at one point with the German Army performing maintenance on its engine based on it being demilitarized in their opinion (they charged him 28,000 Euro for the maintenance). However the Federal Agency for Export Control in an expertise has come to the conclusion that it is not properly demilitarized and documentation is missing too. Some of his restoration efforts make it questionable too, including procuring a new (original) barrel. The tank was revocered by a platoon of Bundeswehr soldiers using two armoured recovery vehicles in 2015 and has been stored at the Putlos training grounds since then.

      His other heavy weapons seem to no longer be of interest - even if some documentation seems to be missing for the torpedo he had, both it and his mortar seem to have been properly deactivated. haven't heard anything about the several dozen machine guns and assault rifles recovered in this regard, or the ammunition or explosives. They're part of the case though, the district attorney needed 15 minutes just to read out the list of weapons they're charging him about.


      As for why this is in this thread, it's because the "collector" had this tank draped up in a multi-level underground building filled with Nazi devotionalia, including rooms built to resemble Hitler's chancellery (complete with Hitler bust and portraits) and with some 100 mannequins used to portray original Nazi uniforms - and a 40-ton semi-replica "with some original parts" of a statue that had been standing in the chancellery's courtyard in Berlin that he had put up in his own garden was what got the police involved in the first place.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • Germany is withdrawing a full platoon of mechanized infantry from its Enhanced Forward Presence Battalion in Lithuania. Immediately. They actually call it "repatriating them". The platoon will of course be replaced with a different one.

        Accusations:
        • drunken "off-duty" party at hotel (despite zero-alcohol order and strict stay-on-base* order), there:
          • antisemitic songs
          • sexual assault on a (male) comrade
          • sexual insults against a (female) comrade
          • local hotel actually calling in German military police to retrieve the guys
        • uncovered in investigations... so far:
          • "birthday songs" for Hitler on April 20th, in open defiance of an order of a NCO who told them to stop that kinda thing.
          • 569 rounds of ammunition missing after a shooting exercise on Apr 3rd
          • sexuality-based mobbing of a (female) comrade throughout the deployment
          • ethnicity-based mobbing of a (Afghan-German) comrade throughout the deployment
        Primary group accused are four soldiers within the platoon of 30. Army has issued the words "dishonourable discharge" already in the press, although that's a bit unlikely.

        The deputy chief of the Army is currently in Rukla, Lithuania due to the affair with an official mission of "supervising troops there". The ammo disappearance has an investigative team from the (Corps Level) Army Command there. And for the rest the Bundeswehr's internal intelligence service is getting involved...


        *- On top of nominally confining soldiers to the base it's also an anti-fraternization order with regard to locals. Soldiers who are outside base premises may not enter businesses or private estates.
        Last edited by kato; 16 Jun 21,, 21:38.

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        • Originally posted by kato View Post
          In case anyone remembers the guy in Germany where they dragged a Panther tank out of his garden with military assistance back in 2015, that case is now (six years later) in court.
          Court, Defense and District Attorney have agreed on a package deal.

          17 months probation (4 of which are considered "served" due to the long delay in the court case), a 250,000 Euro fine and he has to sell the tank and the anti-aircraft gun. The fine part was the main negotiation item in the last week apparently, the district attorney wanted half a million while defense offered 50 grand at most.

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          • We have been following along here in the states. I saw it in a couple of newspapers and heard about on National Public Radio.
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • In Nuremberg a 55-year-old woman was convicted for neonazi terrorism last friday. She got 6 years, no probation.

              The woman was sending out death threats along with ammunition to politicians as well as muslim community organizations and refugee helpers. When she was arrested last year they also found prepared materials for building incendiary devices ... along with a bullet-proof vest, some weapons, several molotov cocktails and some blasting cord, all in her car. They also found that she had already reconnoitered possible targets, including a police station, a Jewish museum and two refugee homes. At her home were the usual nazi devotionalia, including a large swastika flag hanging over her bed.

              The woman was active within activities of the identitarian rightwing-extremist micro-party "The Third Way" (seems she was sleeping with their boss or something like that), and actively sought out contact and meetings with Ralf Wohlleben and Andre E., two of the convicted in the NSU terrorism case. The "Third Way" guys include a variety of people convicted for neonazi attacks, and "activities" she took part in included weapons training in the Czech Republic. One of her two defense attorneys was head of the Viking Youth (which saw itself as a successor to the Hitler Youth) for several years until the organization was outlawed in 1994 - the same guy defended Ralf Wohlleben in the NSU case. In both cases he has managed to quote Göbbels and Hitler in his defense speeches.

              She sees herself as a "victim of police violence" - and of course those bomb-building manuals she had weren't because she wanted to build bombs, but to gain knowledge to protect herself from them. All while having "enemy of the state" visible tattooed on her decollete, as well as SS slogans and swastikas on other parts of her body. Few years ago she used to be in Gremium MC, second-largest biker gang in Germany - on par with their main competitor, Hell's Angels.

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              • I was wondering if she were in a motorcycle gang as I read this...then read the last line.

                And Nuremburg....go figure!

                BTW how'd you make out in the flooding?

                Can't remember if I asked or not.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  BTW how'd you make out in the flooding?

                  Can't remember if I asked or not.
                  The flooding was on the other end of the neighboring state, somewhere around 200 dead and a thousand injured by now with a few billion material damage. Our local civil protection forces did deploy a couple units over there in assistance, mostly medical, and a few dozen evacuees from the area are housed around here now.

                  That flood area also touches a bit on topic: There's neonazis and those Querdenker guys active in the area now trying to stir up the people, attack "representatives of the state" and recruit possible new followers. That biker gang, Gremium MC too actually.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kato View Post
                    Court, Defense and District Attorney have agreed on a package deal.

                    17 months probation (4 of which are considered "served" due to the long delay in the court case), a 250,000 Euro fine and he has to sell the tank and the anti-aircraft gun. The fine part was the main negotiation item in the last week apparently, the district attorney wanted half a million while defense offered 50 grand at most.
                    I have read in other places that the man had purchased these items and not from some black market but on the open market sometime ago. If that were true, and they were bought in Germany, then how is he guilty of anything. If it is illegal to own this stuff then wouldn't it had been illegal for the person who owned it prior and then sold it? Some report that the now old man had been seen driving the tank around town 30 years ago. Under the noses or out in the open? I don't get it. Seems to be more to the story but if he purchased legally then why the big deal now? Why a fine now?

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                    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                      I have read in other places that the man had purchased these items and not from some black market but on the open market sometime ago. If that were true, and they were bought in Germany, then how is he guilty of anything.
                      The tank was bought as scrap in the UK (in the 1970s), imported to Germany with a claim of having been demilitarized, and was then refurbished to resemble its original state over the next years to decades.

                      The problem is that the documentation for the tank and its demilitarization (requires permanently plugging the gun, and thin sheet mock armor over specific parts) is incomplete and to some extent missing completely. On examination the tank was ruled as not properly demilitarized under German laws.

                      Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                      why the big deal now?
                      Police started investigating him after some nazi art reappeared in various investigations, and in his case found a pair of bronze horses that "disappeared" from a Soviet base in East Germany in the early 90s where they had been stored. So, on-site deeper investigations.

                      Detail article on that art part (NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/w...by-hitler.html

                      Due to the investigations they found his "collection" of various weapons, including the tank, an anti-aircraft gun, a torpedo, a mortar, several machine guns and such. And of course once they had found those they started checking into documentation on whether he legally owned those. Which he could not provide for some of these items.

                      The fine itself is part of the plea deal. He could also have had the court run the full trial, upon which he would have likely ended up in prison then. The guy has the money to buy himself out of that basically, but it's an amount where it hurts somewhat and he's still sentenced to a probationary term.

                      As for why he has to sell the tank now, it's because in 2018 due to his case they changed laws pretty much to exactly address cases like his. In order to own and handle a demilitarized tank that can still drive you need a permit which is pretty much subject to the goodwill of authorities and effectively only issued to museums and similar. It is allowed to keep previously owned drivable demilitarized tanks legally by shifting them into another category - to do that they propose removing their engine and having the cavity filled with a solid cast metal block. The anti-aircraft gun he could technically also keep, although he'd also need a (usually shall-issue) permit for that. Since he is now convicted for illegal arms possession he wouldn't be getting that permit either.
                      Last edited by kato; 03 Aug 21,, 21:03.

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                      • Originally posted by kato View Post

                        As for why he has to sell the tank now, it's because in 2018 due to his case they changed laws pretty much to exactly address cases like his. In order to own and handle a demilitarized tank that can still drive you need a permit which is pretty much subject to the goodwill of authorities and effectively only issued to museums and similar. It is allowed to keep previously owned drivable demilitarized tanks legally by shifting them into another category - to do that they propose removing their engine and having the cavity filled with a solid cast metal block. The anti-aircraft gun he could technically also keep, although he'd also need a (usually shall-issue) permit for that. Since he is now convicted for illegal arms possession he wouldn't be getting that permit either.
                        Interesting when compared to this guy in the Bay Area years ago with one of the largest private collections of armor in the world with many running and others under restoration. I visited the place in the early oughts. As said he died young (59) from cancer and so his collection was broken up. Broken up as in scattered to different museums.


                        https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/...ttlefield-dies
                        Last edited by tbm3fan; 04 Aug 21,, 17:27.

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                        • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                          Interesting when compared to this guy in the Bay Area years ago with one of the largest private collections of armor in the world with many running and others under restoration.
                          When those laws where changed press did look around for comparable collectors in Germany.

                          There's one guy who owns around 80 wrecks of tanks, all of them demilitarized and no longer able to drive. He is somewhat notorious in the scene, was actually sentenced for stealing a WW2 tank wreck in Bulgaria about 15 years ago. He had to move his collection to an undisclosed location in East Germany after the original place he had that scrapheap in evicted him for illegally building without permits on his property. They're literal wrecks, and he has in the past donated parts of them sought after to Panzermuseum Munster.

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                          • I wonder if Technik Museum Sinsheim can get their hands on the stuff. That was one impressive place.
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              I wonder if Technik Museum Sinsheim can get their hands on the stuff. That was one impressive place.
                              They have way too little space for that kind of stuff - and their focus is mostly on old cars.

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                              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                                They have way too little space for that kind of stuff - and their focus is mostly on old cars.
                                When I visited it in....*gulp*....2005(?) they seamed to have a fairly robust military display.

                                But I also remember near Hagenau in France there was an old Siegfried Line/Maginot Line fort museumthat had a bunch of WW 2 & Cold War vehicles & aircraft. They even had Erich Honecker's MI-8 helicopter!
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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