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Neonazi Terrorism in Germany

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    From what I remember there was a loud outcry in Germany for left wing extremism in the past.

    Care to explain demographic replacement part?

    Sounds like another 'Eurabia' type to me. YAWN.
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    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #47
      In case of Germany, the ground realities are rather grim. See Berlin Institut´s estimations.

      Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
      Sounds like another 'Eurabia' type to me. YAWN.

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      • #48
        Care to explain demographic replacement part?
        One third of all children born in Germany have immigrant parents. Germans themselves have one of the lowest birthrates in the world.

        Its great if you hate Germans, I guess.
        There is no horse too dead to beat.

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        • #49
          I hate Nazis.

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          • #50
            Following the arrest of Zschäpe, leftist politicians have increased pressure on the authorities to arrest neonazis who went underground in the past couple years. A parliamentary inquiry by The Left revealed that as of January 160 people were sought by the police for various political crimes at the right-wing edge, going from simple minor neonazi stuff to perps having committed multiple murders. A crackdown in the past 4 weeks led to the arrest of 46 of these people.

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            • #51
              Case making waves again, since the Parliamentary Committee tasked with the political evaluation of it is uncovering more and more things.

              A department head in the Federal Domestic Intelligence Service had seven files on Operation Rennsteig destroyed on November 11th 2011 - immediately after the whole NSU case came public. The guy who had the files physically destroyed was originally ordered to collect all files the service had available on the NSU terrorists. He shredded these seven files and told his boss in the service that the files had already been destroyed ten months earlier. He's currently facing disciplinary proceedings.

              Operation Rennsteig was an undercover operation that gathered inside intelligence on the Thuringian Home Defense, a neonazi militia that had about 200 affiliates, 140 of them core members. It ran from 1997 to 2003. The operation also involved Thuringia's and Bavaria's state domestic intelligence services and, interestingly, the Bundeswehr's Military Intelligence Service MAD; Thuringian state domestic intelligence had already infiltrated it three years earlier. The MAD was primarily interested because of neonazi infiltration of the Bundeswehr, multiple members of the militia were serving as conscripts at the time.
              As part of the operation, a list of 73 particularly dangerous people in the organization was created which included both Uwe Mundlos and Uwe Böhnhardt. Shortly after this list was created both went underground, the NSU formed up and started their terrorist actions.

              See also German secret service destroys files on neo-Nazi terrorist gang the National Socialist Underground - Europe - World - The Independent, which isn't particularly detailed on what was in the files.

              German secret service destroys files on neo-Nazi terrorist gang the National Socialist Underground

              Vital information was shredded on the day it was due to be handed to federal prosecutors


              Germany's equivalent of MI5 has found itself at the centre of a deepening intelligence service scandal after it was confirmed yesterday that its agents had destroyed files containing vital information about a neo-Nazi terrorist gang hours before the material was due to be handed to federal prosecutors.

              The case concerns the National Socialist Underground, a neo-Nazi group responsible for Germany's worst acts of far-right violence since the Second World War. Its members murdered a policewoman, shot dead nine immigrants, mounted two bomb attacks and robbed 14 banks to finance their operations.

              Police discovered the bodies of the gang's two ringleaders, Uwe Mundlos and Uwe Böhnhardt, in a burned-out caravan in eastern Germany last November. Investigators established that they had committed suicide after robbing a bank. A third member of the gang, Beate Zschäpe, was caught and arrested. She is still being questioned.

              Details of the scandal were leaked to the German news agency DPA yesterday, prompting German Interior Ministry officials to admit that domestic intelligence service agents, who had been keeping the gang under surveillance for more than a decade, had destroyed files containing information about the group.

              They revealed to a parliamentary inquiry that the agents had shredded the documents on November 11 – the day they were due to be handed to Germany's Federal Prosecutor, who had taken over the investigation.

              Jörg Ziercke, the President of Germany's Federal Criminal Bureau, also admitted to the inquiry that his office "had failed" over the neo-Nazi investigation.

              The revelations increased suspicions that neo-Nazi cell members were in the pay of German intelligence. In the past, the organisation has made no secret of the fact that it uses secret service "moles" to infiltrate the country's far-right groups. However, keeping neo-Nazis on the secret service payroll would amount to active collaboration and imply that members of the intelligence service supported their criminal acts. The intelligence services have admitted to a parliamentary inquiry that both domestic intelligence and German military intelligence used so-called "moles" to infiltrate the neo-Nazi organisations frequented by NSU ringleaders Mundlos and Böhnhardt.

              Shocked German MPs yesterday insisted that the Interior Minister, Hans-Peter Friedrich, open a thorough investigation into the disclosures and bring those responsible to account.

              "The whole affair is intolerable and there must be consequences," said Eva Högl, a Social Democrat MP. Clemens Binniger, a conservative MP attending the inquiry, said the revelations made" all theories possible".

              The series of murders carried out by the National Socialist Underground began over a decade ago. The group singled out immigrant street vendors as their targets and specialised in shooting their victims at point-blank range in the head without warning.

              The killings were mostly carried out with a Czech-made Ceska pistol but remained unsolved for years. German police put them down to immigrant gang violence and did not suspect neo-Nazis were involved.

              After the discovery of the bodies of Mundlos and Böhnhardt last year, police found the Ceska murder weapon and soon established that the pair were behind the immigrant killings. Chancellor Angela Merkel described the murders as a "disgrace" for Germany. Ministers subsequently pledged to step up measures to combat the far right.

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              • #52
                Can we Brits have another go at shooting them yet?

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                • #53
                  The federal domestic intelligence service boss just stepped down over the thing above. Sorta stepped down, he requested being pensioned and the Interior Minister granted it.

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                  • #54
                    Neo Nazi manifestations, have I feel, nothing to do with Hitler. The people who were the most important entities of the Nazi party, during the days when the party was prominent, have nothing in common with the people being referred to. I suspect, that Hitler was the cause of the Nazi party, and also was the person who directed it's destiny. Himmler, Goebbels, Goring, Donitz, were not really people who were important politically at all. Albert Speer was supposed to be an industrial genius, and he had no political power. This proves, that politics is something, which is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps, there is a law and order situation, which has to be urgently dealt with, in Germany's interest.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by AdityaMookerjee View Post
                      I suspect, that Hitler was the cause of the Nazi party, and also was the person who directed it's destiny. Himmler, Goebbels, Goring, Donitz, were not really people who were important politically at all. Albert Speer was supposed to be an industrial genius, and he had no political power.
                      Historians very much disagree with you on the importance of other top NSDAP members. Regarding Speer and other industrials, the NS system at its core was an industrial-political oligarchy. The ultimate variation of capitalism, handing over all actual power to the Kapital, to quote postwar German conservatives.

                      Originally posted by AdityaMookerjee View Post
                      Neo Nazi manifestations, have I feel, nothing to do with Hitler.
                      I think you should read up on what Neo-Nazism is first. Of course it doesn't have anything to do with Hitler. We got rid of those you think of in the 1960s.

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                      • #56
                        Some tidbits, ongoing:
                        - pretty much every official of the state domestic intelligence service of Thuringia has turned amnesiac considering events in the 90s
                        - the same goes for interior ministry officials in the same state
                        - gets rather funny in some parts: the interior minister of Thuringia claims he had never met the guy who he made chief of domestic intelligence in 1994 before he gave him the post
                        - in fact no one can remember how the guy got his job - including he himself

                        Also, the state domestic intelligence chief of Saxony just stepped down.
                        Last edited by kato; 11 Jul 12,, 12:29.

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                        • #57
                          MIB paid them a visit?
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            MIB paid them a visit?
                            Well, it's them that's supposed to be the MIB...

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by kato View Post
                              Well, it's them that's supposed to be the MIB...
                              Tommy Lee Jones got flashed, right?
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                              • #60
                                Trial is starting in a couple weeks, with 85 planned court dates reaching into January 2014, when we might have a verdict. Could drag on a bit further

                                The accused in the trial:
                                • Beate Zschäpe (part of the trio) is charged with 10 cases of murder, 28 cases of attempted murder, 15 cases of armed robbery, arson (destroying the flat in which the other two of the trio killed themselves) and membership in a terrorist organization. She is facing a possible life sentence followed by security detention.
                                • Ralf Wohlleben (a former NPD party official) is accused of organizing the gun used for shooting the ten victims and is charged with assisting murder. He faces a possible sentence of minimum three years, maximum 15 years.
                                • Carsten S. is accused of handling the actual buying and supply of the gun and is charged with assisting murder. He faces a possible sentence of minimum three years, maximum 15 years.
                                • Andre E. is charged with supporting an explosives attack in Cologne by providing quarters to the trio (while knowing about the planned attack). He's facing a possible sentence of minimum six months, maximum 11 years and 3 months.
                                • Holger G. is accused of providing fake IDs to the trio and is therefore charged with three counts of supporting a terrorist organization. He's facing a possible sentence of minimum six months, maximum 10 years.
                                Last edited by kato; 09 Mar 13,, 15:42.

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