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Neonazi Terrorism in Germany

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  • P.S. NYT article on the planned coup: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/w...p-arrests.html

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    • Thanks Kato

      Given the fractured state of pre-Bismark Germany I gotta ask...just wonder what the throne he was a prince of?

      Sadly, we are seeing way too much of this in the Western world these days.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
        just wonder what the throne he was a prince of?
        House Reuß. Small principality that existed since ca 1307 until 1918 on the border between Saxony and Thuringia, around the small city of Gera.

        The guy - Heinrich XIII Prince Reuß - was already in the press in recent months because of connections to an "independent" mayor elected in Bad Lobenstein (where his castle is); that mayor physically attacked some reporters in summer (the prince was present during that) in a case that escalated all the way to the state government having to comment on it.

        During those reports in the summer his family was also asked about him and told the press they considered him a "deranged old man who subscribes to conspiracy theories" and that he "broke away from the family" around 2006.

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        • There's a fairly detailed Press release (in German) from the Federal Attorney.

          It mostly details regarding the 25 arrested and 27 further suspects that:
          • The group was following Reichsbürger and QAnon ideology, believing in a "Deep State" narrative. They were waiting for a "Day X" on which "The Alliance" in their narrative would help them attack and overcome the deep state government.
          • To support this the group planned to field armed "Home Protection Companies". These armed groups were supposed to attack governments at all levels down to local governments.
          • The group was in the process of designing a "military transitional government" that would take over afterwards. This "transitional government" was to negotiate with WW2 Allies regarding the replacement of the German government. The group came to the conclusion that only one of the Allies would be a possible negotiation partner - Russia - and a person is accused of supporting the organization by attempting to open lines of communication to the Russian Embassy in Germany.
          • Heinrich XIII Prince Reuß was supposed to be at the head of this "transitional government" and therefore along with Rüdiger de Pescatore (that's the Bundeswehr officer who stole a truckload of Kalashnikovs in the 90s) is considered to be one of the leaders of the organization.
          • Rüdiger von Pescatore formed a "military staff" of 8 of the accused supported by 4 further accused. This "military staff" was planning recruitment, procurement and training for their envisioned armed forces.
          • The group attempted to recruit active soldiers and police officers for their movement during summer this year. In October they additionally spied on a number of Bundeswehr facilities as possible future bases for their operations. Planning and training for their operation intensified at the end of November, hence the police raids now.
          • There is a suspicion that the group was planning to have an armed force attack the federal parliament. This is being further investigated due to the possibility of High Treason charges.

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          • Originally posted by kato View Post
            House Reuß. Small principality that existed since ca 1307 until 1918 on the border between Saxony and Thuringia, around the small city of Gera.
            P.S. The second wife of the last German Emperor Wilhelm II, Princess Hermine of Schoenaich-Carolath, was part of House Reuss - although only very remotely related. She married the former emperor in his Dutch exile in 1922 after both had been widowed.

            The house somewhat punched above their level - compared to its small principality - and both fielded a bunch of politicians in Germany primarily in the 19th century (including the head of the government of Prussia from 1806 to 1833) and married into a good number of noble houses over time. The grandmother of Queen Victoria I was of House Reuss for example, or also the wife of the last Tsar of Bulgaria.

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            • Originally posted by kato View Post
              There's a fairly detailed Press release (in German) from the Federal Attorney.

              It mostly details regarding the 25 arrested and 27 further suspects that:
              • The group was following Reichsbürger and QAnon ideology, believing in a "Deep State" narrative. They were waiting for a "Day X" on which "The Alliance" in their narrative would help them attack and overcome the deep state government.
              • To support this the group planned to field armed "Home Protection Companies". These armed groups were supposed to attack governments at all levels down to local governments.
              • The group was in the process of designing a "military transitional government" that would take over afterwards. This "transitional government" was to negotiate with WW2 Allies regarding the replacement of the German government. The group came to the conclusion that only one of the Allies would be a possible negotiation partner - Russia - and a person is accused of supporting the organization by attempting to open lines of communication to the Russian Embassy in Germany.
              • Heinrich XIII Prince Reuß was supposed to be at the head of this "transitional government" and therefore along with Rüdiger de Pescatore (that's the Bundeswehr officer who stole a truckload of Kalashnikovs in the 90s) is considered to be one of the leaders of the organization.
              • Rüdiger von Pescatore formed a "military staff" of 8 of the accused supported by 4 further accused. This "military staff" was planning recruitment, procurement and training for their envisioned armed forces.
              • The group attempted to recruit active soldiers and police officers for their movement during summer this year. In October they additionally spied on a number of Bundeswehr facilities as possible future bases for their operations. Planning and training for their operation intensified at the end of November, hence the police raids now.
              • There is a suspicion that the group was planning to have an armed force attack the federal parliament. This is being further investigated due to the possibility of High Treason charges.
              What a bunch of nuts cases and you can't do a lot about it in the long run. All you can do, as a democratic government, is try them and put them in jail. Yet the infection can always pop up again because, in many ways, it is still present as putting them in jail confirms the "Deep State' in their minds. Unlike them, if they got into power, they would simply eliminate you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                Unlike them, if they got into power, they would simply eliminate you.
                The federal attorney press release above in its details is quite explicit in stating that too in order to justify their immediate arrest:

                Members of the association are aware that their project can only be realized through the use of military assets and force against state representatives. This includes the perpetration of killings.
                and:
                The association is aware that this will lead to deaths. They condone or accept this scenario as a necessary step to achieve the "system change at all levels" they seek for.


                As for the right-wingers in the country, they're already spinning their own narrative on it. One "suggestion" i've already seen spun from that political direction is that the razzia is just an attempt by the government to steer attention away from a murder committed by a refugee in a south-German town two days ago, and that of course no "pillar of society" like those accused would ever seek a coup.

                Comment


                • Would it be an indication of an onset of rabid paranoia, to suggest that the FSB had a finger involved in the plot?
                  Sure they must have been aware that it was pie-in-the-sky, but WTH anything that would cause disruption in a key EU/NATO country must be grist for their mill.
                  Just remember Georgia and Montenegro just to name two.

                  When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Amled View Post
                    Would it be an indication of an onset of rabid paranoia, to suggest that the FSB had a finger involved in the plot?
                    "The accused Heinrich XIII Prince Reuß began seeking contact to representatives of the Russian Federation in Germany. Based on investigations so far there is no indication that these contacts reacted positively to his endeavour".

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kato View Post
                      Active right-wing shooter situation in Halle, East Germany right now.

                      This guy:

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]48096[/ATTACH].
                      The shooter in that case from 2019, Stephan Balliett, tried to escape prison for a second time yesterday, this time taking hostages:

                      https://apnews.com/article/prisons-9...fde32064c2f4c4

                      Supposedly he used a improvised projectile weapon that he had built in his prison cell and fired off a shot during the hostage taking. The guns and explosive devices that he had used in his attack in 2019 were also home-built.

                      In 2020 Balliett was sentenced to life in prison with follow-on preventive custody for two cases of murder, 60 cases of attempted murder, battery, armed robbery and hate speech. During his trial he tried to flee from prison, climbing over a 11-feet fence (but never managing to leave the prison before they caught him); after the court spoke their verdict Balliett (unsuccessfully) attempted to injure a representative of the Jewish community he had attacked that was there as a witness.

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                      • During the raids in December police found about 120 signed "secrecy declarations" of people who were recruited by the group for the coup. In addition chat protocols were evaluated.

                        20 premises owned by 5 accused (i.e. with those declarations) as well as 14 witnesses (i.e. people appearing in chat protocols) were searched yesterday, both in Germany and Switzerland concurrently. These 19 people apparently include three police officers, four reservists and one active soldier (a navy NCO). In one case a police officer was wounded in a shootout.

                        As an update to the December raids, Maximilian E. (the previously mentioned retired colonel) was extradited from Italy to Germany mid-February.

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                        • Germany is changing legal requirements for firing extremists from government employment. Bills to that effect were passed by the federal parliament today.

                          The new wording broadly translates to:

                          ... is to be dismissed if:
                          • in a grave manner pursueing or having pursued endeavours that:
                            • are directed against the free democratic basic order, the continued existance or the security of the federation or a federal state or aim to illegally disrupt the governance of a constitutional organ of the federation or a state or one of their members
                            • [or] endanger foreign affairs of the Federal Republic of Germany by means of force or preparations thereof
                            • [or] are directed against international understanding in the sense of the constitution, in particular against the peaceful coexistance of peoples.
                          • [and] if their remaining in position endangers military order or the public trust in the military.
                          • equally shall be dismissed whoever supports groups that pursue the above.

                          This - through separate bills - applies to both soldiers and other public servants of the federal government.

                          Affected people of course have legal recourse against a dismissal. The main change though is that a dismissal under the above is now a simple authoritative decision. There is no disciplinary hearing/proceedings required beforehand, which has been the case so far - and these disciplinary proceedings dragged out cases for on average three years. Direct dismissals - without disciplinary proceedings - so far were only possible for soldiers who had served less than four years.

                          The bills were supported in parliament by the government parties, while among the opposition conservative CDU (Merkel's party) joined right-extremist AFD in voting against it; the left-extremist The Left abstained.

                          The drafting of the bills is supported by the Solders' Union (yes, the German military is unionized), which apparently also lobbied towards a fairly precise definition and presented experts to parliamentary hearings e.g. in the defense committee on the bills. Public Servant unions mostly oppose them, partly because rule changes in the bill applying to them go a step further and basically allow any direct disciplinary measures as well (e.g. reduced pay etc).

                          It's overall a fairly major step since such law changes have been under discussion since the Franco A. case in 2017. Under CDU governance (see also the vote against now) this never went anywhere though. When the new SPD-led government took over a more forceful approach to the matter was taken; during 2022 und MoD Lambrecht in that regard it was mostly a back-and-forth between the two options of a "defined targeted approach" (like now taken) or a general just-kick-them-out-and-let-the-courts-sort-it-out approach (which some state government have for their public servants). The new law situation now passed has been in the definition process since February this year, after MoD Pistorius took over from Lambrecht.
                          Last edited by kato; 18 Nov 23,, 00:11.

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                          • Originally posted by kato View Post
                            Thuringian neonazi martial arts group Knockout 51 which was trying to establish itself as a local turf authority
                            Court cases for this are proceeding and have led to additional arrests. Among others this includes the head of the Thuringian branch of nationalist party NPD. He's accused of providing a training place to the group as well as storage room for weapons.

                            The court where the Knockout 51 case is heard limited the accusation though based on evidence provided to it. The four accused in their case are "preliminary" only accused of being part to a criminal organization, not a terrorist organization. Charges against them also include multiple cases of armed battery, resistance against police, violations of weapons laws and other stuff.

                            Originally posted by kato View Post
                            P.S. NYT article on the planned coup: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/w...p-arrests.html
                            Court cases against the first 27 accused in Reuß' coup have begun at three separate Upper State Courts. In total there are 69 people being investigated so far.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kato View Post
                              Court cases against the first 27 accused in Reuß' coup have begun at three separate Upper State Courts. In total there are 69 people being investigated so far.
                              The second of the court cases, against Reuß himself as well as the rest of the leadership of the group (9 people) started in Frankfurt today.

                              The nine accused in this case are:
                              - Heinrich XIII Prinz Reuß
                              - Rüdiger von Pescatore (former Bundeswehr paratrooper, lieutenant colonel rank, six years at SHAPE)
                              - Maximilian Eder (former Bundeswehr KSK member, colonel rank)
                              - Peter Wörner (former Bundeswehr KSK member)
                              - Birgit Malsack-Winkelmann (former AfD federal parliament member, former judge)
                              - Johanna Findeisen (former federal elections candidate for right-extremist party "Basis")
                              - Michael F (former police officer)
                              - Vitalia B. (Reuss' girlfriend, tried to organize contacts with Russian officials)
                              - Hans-Joachim H. (a financial consultant)

                              There was originally a tenth person to be tried in this case, Norbert G., but he died two months ago (at age 73).

                              The charges levied against the accused are primarily "membership in a terrorist organization" and ""preparation of a high treasonous act" (or support thereof).

                              Reuß, Pescatore and Wörner are additionally accused of weapons law violations (read: they were stocking the weapons for the group), Wörner for "preparation of a violent act endangering state security" (he organized a shooting training during which he selected personnel for their planned assault on the federal parliament).

                              In total 380 firearms, 350 melee weapons, 20 explosive devices and about 150,000 rounds of ammunition were found with the group.

                              Findeisen and Hans-Joachim H. are mostly in this case since they provided about 30% of the funding of the group each.

                              Michael F., the former police officer, was already fired from his post before his arrest due to political "statements".

                              Maximilian Eder, the other former KSK member in there, is the same guy who during the 2021 Ahr Valley floods occupied a school in the disaster area as a "relief point" and used it to spread extremist propaganda.

                              ---

                              There is a separate, already ongoing court case against the "military arm" in which mostly the "commanders" of the "home protection companies" are being tried. These "home protection companies" were intended to do the "cleansing actions" after the planned coup, i.e. the murder of political opponents.

                              That case also includes an active Bundeswehr soldier (staff sergeant, also in KSK special forces).

                              The charges there are the same ("membership in a terrorist organization" and ""preparation of a high treasonous act"). Additionally one of the accused in that case is being tried for attempted murder (he fired an assault rifle at officers during his arrest, wounding two).
                              Last edited by kato; 21 May 24,, 15:41.

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                              • Thanks and glad to see the wheels of justice continue to turn, albeit slowly!
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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