The Nuclear Paradox

[Dreadnought]

[/B]

Stalin had the bomb, Mao during the cultural revolution had the bomb, Pakistan has the bomb, Kim jong il too,etc...Why did they think twice when there were diplomatic crises ? Mutual assured destruction. Do you think Ahmaninedjad is more crazy and unsensitive than the guys above?

No just more stupid and shortsighted. Religion is a very dangerous motive more so then landgrabbing or resources.

The atom bomb could not touch the destruction of a nuke. It would still heave destruction upon its target but not on the same magnitude.

[glyn]

The red button pushed by one person is a myth. These are national security affairs, it involves lots of people, especially in Iran, the president of Iran couldn't do it all by himself. And when it's about the survival of the state even Ahmaninedjad will put aside his beliefs. An israeli official said war with Iran was inevitable.. who believes him? The same for Iran, you need consensus. To Find two people who agree to die in the same time it's already difficult, now try to convince the whole Iranian establishment...because let's face it: they know that would be the consequence.

Then why should they bother to get nuclear bombs?

[Oscar]

Then why should they bother to get nuclear bombs?

Because it's a sure guarantee against an American attack. North Korea showed the way: Against a nuclear country the US is compeled to negociate because if they chose confrontation the potential damages would be too great.

[Stitch]

No just more stupid and shortsighted. Religion is a very dangerous motive more so then landgrabbing or resources.

The atom bomb could not touch the destruction of a nuke. It would still heave destruction upon its target but not on the same magnitude.

Yes, and when a people, or a whole society, is convinced that death will lead them to nirvana or paradise or heaven or Jannah, then why not die in the service of your God? We, in the West, have no conception of how central to their life religion is; it permeates their lives and their societies. Everything happens according to divine guidance; the ENTIRE COUNTRY stops whatever they are doing when the meuzzin call them to their daily prayer. Can you imagine everybody in the US stopping whatever they happen to be doing and praying ALL AT THE SAME TIME, five times a day? I'm not saying this is bad or evil, but when your whole point of reference in life is guided and dicated by a single faith, the world looks a lot different than it does to somebody raised in a liberal, Western tradition. Most of the "true believers" of Islam have no fear of death, and therefore nothing to lose, since death is their ticket to everlasting paradise.

[glyn]

Because it's a sure guarantee against an American attack. North Korea showed the way: Against a nuclear country the US is compeled to negociate because if they chose confrontation the potential damages would be too great.

Sorry, dear heart but I can't agree with you. North Korea further impoverished an already impoverished country to produce a nuclear bomb. Does this make him a member of the Big Boys bragging club? Hardly. If the US wanted to take over NK don't you think they may have made a move by now, and not wait for the glorious leader to develop nukes?

[Officer of Engineers]

Because it's a sure guarantee against an American attack. North Korea showed the way: Against a nuclear country the US is compeled to negociate because if they chose confrontation the potential damages would be too great.

You've read wrong. North Korea was chided by China to the point that military invasion and economic collapse caused by China were real possibilities. North Korea does not have any nukes. Their design was a dud and they have to start from ground zero. And since theirs was a dud, they've lost any barginning chip they've got and now are submitting to Chinese demands.

[Dreadnought]

Yes, and when a people, or a whole society, is convinced that death will lead them to nirvana or paradise or heaven or Jannah, then why not die in the service of your God? We, in the West, have no conception of how central to their life religion is; it permeates their lives and their societies. Everything happens according to divine guidance; the ENTIRE COUNTRY stops whatever they are doing when the meuzzin call them to their daily prayer. Can you imagine everybody in the US stopping whatever they happen to be doing and praying ALL AT THE SAME TIME, five times a day? I'm not saying this is bad or evil, but when your whole point of reference in life is guided and dicated by a single faith, the world looks a lot different than it does to somebody raised in a liberal, Western tradition. Most of the "true believers" of Islam have no fear of death, and therefore nothing to lose, since death is their ticket to everlasting paradise.

That just goes to show you reason ONE why they should never have their hands on such a device.;)

[TTL]

The big difference is that those that have them wont launch them nor attack another nation with them because they are of wrong religious origins or because some idiot Imam or Ayatolla said so. They will only use them to defend their respective nations. Countries that call blatantly for the destruction of another country for religious reasons cannont be trusted with such responsibility nor such destructive power EVER because they act like children in a grown up world

I think this way of thinking is fundamentally flawed. None can justly decide who is grown enough or not to do whatever on their own sovereign soil. UN security council's permanent members all have nuclear weapons and were at war with each other once. How can one guarantee there won't be another war and nukes are just for peaceful reasons. How those nations without nukes can assure their citizens safety in such an event? What the developed nations do today is just using their power to keep rest of the world under their leadership.

By the way it may be a little off topic but Iranians are not as religious as some of you think they are and life doesn't stop during prayer times. Though it stops during the midday, they close shops and go sleeping which is very frustrating.

[omon]

By the way it may be a little off topic but Iranians are not as religious as some of you think they are and life doesn't stop during prayer times. Though it stops during the midday, they close shops and go sleeping which is very frustrating.

sure they stop, in midday, it is hot as hell there at that time, too hot to do anything, but sleep.

i wonder how many wabers actually been to iran, cuz my coworker is from there, and from reading this thread, he sees, that none here knows anything about iran, iran isn,t anything like iraq or a stan or even pak.

[ArmchairGeneral]

The atom bomb could not touch the destruction of a nuke. It would still heave destruction upon its target but not on the same magnitude.

Huh? Atom bomb=nuke.

[chankya]

Yes, and when a people, or a whole society, is convinced that death will lead them to nirvana or paradise or heaven or Jannah, then why not die in the service of your God? We, in the West, have no conception of how central to their life religion is; it permeates their lives and their societies. Everything happens according to divine guidance; the ENTIRE COUNTRY stops whatever they are doing when the meuzzin call them to their daily prayer. Can you imagine everybody in the US stopping whatever they happen to be doing and praying ALL AT THE SAME TIME, five times a day? I'm not saying this is bad or evil, but when your whole point of reference in life is guided and dicated by a single faith, the world looks a lot different than it does to somebody raised in a liberal, Western tradition. Most of the "true believers" of Islam have no fear of death, and therefore nothing to lose, since death is their ticket to everlasting paradise.

The US debates creationism and abortion (on religious grounds) endlessly and it becomes the major issue in every election around. You debate on the legality of the ten commandments hanging in court rooms. Whatever your position on those issues, that's religion in the public sphere. And you're saying religion does not permeate your society?

Oh and how about that whole swearing in on a Koran thing?

All societies are religiously influenced. The Islamic world seems way more so than others. Iran however I think is driven more by a sense of cultural and historical identity than a religious one. They aren't Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

[1947]

Honestly?

It's a little better but it's still not written English.

-dale

i dont give great importance towards punctuation as i do towards the topics as far as im concerned this discussion is worth more than some missing punctuations

[1947]

lets get back on topic here how does the world persuade india, pakistan and israel to sign the NPT when the big 5 get to keep their weapons seems unfair from the beginning.

[ArmchairGeneral]

i dont give great importance towards punctuation as i do towards the topics as far as im concerned this discussion is worth more than some missing punctuations

Clarity of expression is vital for clarity of discussion.

That said, prescriptive grammarians can shove it. You listening glyn? ;)

[BenRoethig]

lets get back on topic here how does the world persuade india, pakistan and israel to sign the NPT when the big 5 get to keep their weapons seems unfair from the beginning.

We were drawing down before these idiots decided to join the party.

Look, having nukes is like a multiparty wild west stand off. You don't like the situation, but if you put your gun down, one of the other parties in the circle might shoot you and their word doesn't mean much when you're staring down the barrel of a six shooter. If the situation is going to be resolved, all parties have to agree and its going to be a very slow and deliberate draw down. Then imagine once some progress is made, two feuding would be desperadoes decide to join the situation to try to get their names in the paper and after they do, others start thinking about joining. That's basically the last 35 years.