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  • Canadian PM Calls himself Unamerican

    http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...12&floc=NW_2-T

    Higher taxes and pathetic social programs is not something to be proud of.

    Everyone thinks these Social Programs are something new and special and a change from the past. But the pathetic truth is the Government has been dicking around in economics and medicine since the begining of civilization and the only time we made great progress is when the Government stayed out.
    Last edited by Praxus; 25 May 04,, 00:45.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Praxus
    http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...12&floc=NW_2-T

    Higher taxes and pathetic social programs is not something to be proud of.

    Everyone thinks these Social Programs are something new and special and a change from the past. But the pathetic truth is the Government has been dicking around in economics and medicine since the begining of civilization and the only time we made great progress is when the Government stayed out.
    Between a rock and a hard place. Martin is playing the only card available to him after the Liberal Party of Ontario shafted Ontario (the most powerful province in Canada) with 9 bil$ in health care tax hikes.

    Comment


    • #3
      So by making up for it he is going to promiss more tax hikes!

      There is some logic for you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Praxus
        So by making up for it he is going to promiss more tax hikes!

        There is some logic for you.
        Don't know about that. Martin was a tax cutter and he has a balanced budget. What he's saying is that don't expect any more tax cuts, as opposed to Harper, who is promising tax cuts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Martin himself is not anti-American...but unfortunatly he is playing that angle to gain support. Sadly there are many in this country that think to be strong we have to despise and insult the US.

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          • #6
            I am probably going to vote Liberal. NDP is out of the question and the Conservatives scares the hell out of me. They're going to try to act like a mini-Blair, in trying to match every US committement without giving us the badly needed rest that we actually need.

            Comment


            • #7
              Your willing to vote for a party that believes the Canadian Healthcare system is and I quote "the envy of the world"?

              How about you vote for Conservitive, they will increase defense spending and the size of the military and you won't need resting periods.
              Last edited by Praxus; 26 May 04,, 00:47.

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              • #8
                Discusting, very discusting. Just when I thaught we got a friend up to the North he backstabs us in favor of trying to get more support. OOE, why not vote conservative and stop these liberal America bashers from taking office?

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                • #9
                  [sarcasm]Higher taxes from "free healthcare"? I don't believe anything the government does could cost so much money, they are all so efficent![/sarcasm]
                  Even now the law suits against the drug manufacturers are starting for their sale of medicines to Cancada/etc, for less than here. If that changes, hopefully soon because Canada doesn't need any price breaks, Canadian taxes will go up up up.
                  No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                  I agree completely with this Administrationís goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                  even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                  He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. Itís the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Praxus
                    Your willing to vote for a party that believes the Canadian Healthcare system is and I quote "the envy of the world"?

                    How about you vote for Conservitive, they will increase defense spending and the size of the military and you won't need resting periods.
                    Doesn't work that way. Even if you give me $20bil today, I can't get 5,000 people trained for at least two years. In fact, I can't start training recruits until my instructors come back from being deployed. We've emptied our schools of our DIs just to meet the Haiti committement.

                    With Harper in place, I am terrified that we will never be able to get our instructors back and rebuild my army.

                    Originally posted by ChrisF202
                    OOE, why not vote conservative and stop these liberal America bashers from taking office?
                    About the only difference between them is the anti-US bashing (or lack thereof) but policy wise, the conservatives ain't any better. They were the ones who got Canada into that big debt crisis (cutting taxes while not reducing spending).

                    The Conservatives are foreign affairs hawks. I'm getting the feeling that Harper is a mini-Rumsfeld who does not think things through. The Conservatives has NOT learned from the Somali fiasco that resulted in the disbanding of the Canadian Airborne Regiment. I do not want a repeat of that fiasco.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
                      The Conservatives has NOT learned from the Somali fiasco that resulted in the disbanding of the Canadian Airborne Regiment. I do not want a repeat of that fiasco.
                      Sorry to change the topic, but what was the reason behind the disbanding?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Isn't what you are sugesting, a little short sighted?

                        "Let's not fight WW3, it might make our troops tired!"

                        What is amazing is that the United States in the late 1800's the taxes were less then 10% of the US GDP and we had a surplus. We could pay for all the legal purposes of Government. This shows to me that excess Government spending causes national dept, not a cut in taxes. You should be fighting to cut taxes and spending. Not just give up on the first because the later isn't being done.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChrisF202
                          Sorry to change the topic, but what was the reason behind the disbanding?
                          Torture and murder in Somalia. Canada, Belgium and Italy all had soldiers on trial for atrocities that occured in Somalia, I believe.
                          No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                          I agree completely with this Administrationís goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                          even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                          He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. Itís the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unfortuntly I can't vote this election because I am only 17...so close lol.

                            Although I can give an example of how apparent the distrust of the Liberal Party is: My parents, who are both teachers, my father a high school teacher in the public system, are considering voting Conservative. This is after the provincial Conservatives (according to them, and I suppose I have to trust their opinions on this) completely destroyed the education system. To be fair, the province controls education so the federal government had nothing to do with it. But still, these people have never considered voting conservative in their lives! They always vote liberal and I think my mom has voted NDP a couple times. And now a switch to the Conservatives...Conservatives under Harper no less.

                            I happen to like Harper, he is very blunt and makes bold critisisms of the way Canada works (tempered by making it seem as though it is entirely the Liberal Party's fault, and most of it is I suppose). The Liberals have taken to calling him un-Canadian but he has responded very well to this with: "any government that considers those who support lower taxes unCanadian deserves to be destroyed [paraphrase].

                            We do need lower taxes. We do need P3 Health Care (Public Private Partnerships like Ontario is fiddling with), we do need to stop transfer payments to Atlantic Canada and Quebec, we do need an elected Senate, we do need free votes in Parliament (as it stands right now, the Conservative Party is the only one that allows its MPs to vote against the party leader), we do need increased funding and expansion of the armed forces, and we need to stop alienating the US. Stephen Harper will do all of these things I believe. The only question I can think of is the one the Colonel raised: Will he wreck our armed forces in the process of trying to fix our foreign policy? I do not think Canadian troops would be sent to Iraq in the event of a Conservative victory. I think it would make him too unpopular if he did it immediately. OOE, how much new funding do you think the Conservatives would give the army? And how much time would you need to rebuild (I know thats a tricky question since I am not specifying what the ideal is for the Canadian forces, but you know that far better than I do)? I can see Canadian troops going to Iraq after maybe 2 or 3 years, depending on the state of both Iraq and of the CF. Maybe I am naive to trust Harper not to send them in straight away, but thats my 2 cents.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Praxus
                              Isn't what you are sugesting, a little short sighted?

                              "Let's not fight WW3, it might make our troops tired!"
                              The situation is far worst than that. We have NOBODY left, including our instructors. It is akin to stripping the NTC and sending all the senior people of the 11ACR over to Iraq indefnetely. So, how is your army going to meet qualifications? Well, we've sent our Battle School people over from the 2 RCR to Haiti.

                              We need to bring our people home, not so much as to send them to Hawaii but to rebuild the entire unit from the ground up. Accumulate all the Lessons Learned, write them down, fix what's broken (including guns, trucks, and people), and get the train the next batch of people going on deployment.

                              The reality is that we're so short of people that if we don't bring our instructors home, we won't have an army in two years. Most of our instructors are slated to leave the army in two to five years. We need them to start training their replacements NOW in order to get their replacements qualified to be instructors.

                              Harper is not understanding this. I'm not hearing him bringing my people home. I'm hearing him to be a foriegn affairs hawk. I'm hearing him wanting to send my people over to Iraq while KEEPING our Bosnian, Afghan, and Haiti committements. Harper's solution is to throw money (I don't know where he's going to get it AND keep tax cuts) at the military while NOT providing direction, the EXACT same problem we had under the former Conservative Prime Minsiter, Kim Campbell <spit> (sorry, M21, I had to borrow your image).

                              Originally posted by Praxus
                              What is amazing is that the United States in the late 1800's the taxes were less then 10% of the US GDP and we had a surplus. We could pay for all the legal purposes of Government. This shows to me that excess Government spending causes national dept, not a cut in taxes. You should be fighting to cut taxes and spending. Not just give up on the first because the later isn't being done.
                              Amazingly enough, the guy who did this was Paul Martin. He cut both taxes and spending (more so the latter than the former). It was a wretched 12 years for us when Ottawa keep slicing the defence budget while increasing our committements.

                              At this point, I don't know how much further anyone can cut taxes, at least not reducing services that we're used to.

                              Harper may be a Conservative by party but even he cannot cut the social net any more than Martin already did. Under Martin, Ottawa had surpluses three past years running (but then again, so did Clinton). Those surpluses, Martin is keeping one third as a buffer, one third to reduce the debt, one third to cut taxes. Martin is keeping the first two as the priority.

                              Originally posted by Confed999
                              Originally posted by ChrisF202
                              Sorry to change the topic, but what was the reason behind the disbanding?
                              Torture and murder in Somalia. Canada, Belgium and Italy all had soldiers on trial for atrocities that occured in Somalia, I believe.
                              The final straw that broke the camal's back was a Hazing Video of 1 Commando, CAR. The real reason is that Ottawa didn't like realize that the CAR was a bunch of hooligans and when the Canadian public saw hooligan acts, they've disbanded.

                              A bit of history here.

                              The CAR is raised by recruiting from the rest of the CF, primarily 1 Commando is raised by recruiting members of the Royal 22nd Regiment (Van Doos), 2 Commando is raised through the Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry, and 3 Commando from the Royal Canadian Regiment.

                              The CAR also is first at the money trough. The Special Operations Group which is centred on the CAR was located at CFB Petawawa. Essentially, this battalion had the money of a brigade.

                              This left the other regiments somewhat annoy in that the CAR not only recruit their best people but also their funds. When the deployment crunch and cash crunch start hitting the CF, the regforce regiments started to hold back their best people (by offerring faster career paths than what the CAR can offer) and hence, the CAR started getting the runts of the regiments. Add to this, that when Somalia just start hitting the news, the regt staff has been lifers and started looking towards retirement (ie hanging on by their finger nails until their retirement date), they started to let things slide (why bother disciplining idiotic hooligans who are too stupid to learn when you only got two months left?)

                              Then, the regt itself feels it can do no wrong. Colonel Serge Lebae (whom I have a real big problem with) is everything that was wrong with the regt. All balls and no brains. There was a rumour that he issued an order in Somalia that the first section to kill a Somali would get a free case of beer. I have strong doubts that he issued such an order but what gets my goat was that when he learned of it, he did not immediately issue counter-orders to the opposite.

                              This being said, the disbanding of the Regiment was a coward's act. Things were being fixed. The old Regt Staff was kicked out replaced by fresh blood who didn't take crap. The hooligans were hit where it hurt the most - they were fined for every violation (lack of beer money really hurts).

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