Statquo and OOE Club: Canadian Politics

[statquo]

Myself and the Honorable Colonel welcome you to the Canadian politics thread

[statquo]

I looked at OUR Liberals under Chretien. I was that disgusted with Kim Campbell's PCs. I voted for Chretien's Liberals. They did Canada GOOD and did Canada PROUD. Justin Trudeau ain't no Chretien

Absolutely at no time in my life, nevertheless here, have I compared Justin Trudeau to Jean Chrétien. Trudeau isn’t even in the same sport nevertheless league.

We're Canada. We're not the US. Look what happened under Harper - Reagan and then Trudeau - Obama, Nadda, Zilch.

We’re going to respectfully disagree. What did Stephen Harper accomplish other than lowering taxes, talking the BIG on the foreign policy stage, and keeping the social conservatives at bay? He gave everything to Quebec and then lost it to the NDP(!). Fiscal conservative? 6 straight deficits, $150 BILLION to the deficit, a nice follow-up to Chrétien and Martin who shaved $90 billion off of it and left it with a surplus. He spent like a liberal! And that was with great oil prices in the late-2000s-early 2010s. Shameful. Cozying up the Chinese? Got us nothing. Tough talk on Defense? Measly investment, if any. Embarrassing policy like the “Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline” targeting refugees (Syrians). And let’s not forget having the charisma and personality of a lightly dusted rock wearing a sweater.

Don’t get me wrong. The oil industry swung the balance of power to the West finally, and it was great to finally get a leader. But Stephen Harper was a placeholder until the Liberals, the governing party in this country, got their shit together.

It's only us two. No one else is interested. And I'm Canada is Always Great.

I am too. But I’m ashamed where are our country has gone under the Trudeau government. A true lost decade of economic stagnation. Rampant activism. Identity politics. Clamping of free speech. Scandals. Affordability. Incompetence. Brutalization to our debt. I voted for him in 2015, sat out in 2019, voted O’Toole in 2021. Not sure I have it in me to vote Pierre in 2025. Truly a political orphan at this stage.

[statquo]

Actually a topic that has finally been pushed forth and that I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts is the disgraceful neglect our military is in. I don’t know how they plan to pay for it without generating more revenues or putting it on the credit card for the foreseeable future, but what are your thoughts on it?

[Officer of Engineers]

Actually a topic that has finally been pushed forth and that I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts is the disgraceful neglect our military is in. I don’t know how they plan to pay for it without generating more revenues or putting it on the credit card for the foreseeable future, but what are your thoughts on it?

The Army has always been the bastard child when it comes to funding. Big ticket items like ships and planes get the glory and money. We're last to the trough. Pretty well the last time the Army got any sort of funding was the war in Afghanistan and that's through emergency funding for needed items like 155mm towed guns and the LEO C2s.

It's not the first time the Army had to make do. The M113, COYOTE Arm'd Reccee, and the LAV-III all served well beyond their expected life spans. We've lost an entire LEO C1 squadron due to wear and tear, At places, you could poke holes through the armour with a pencil. Funding gotten so bad that we were going to shift guns and tanks to the CFR. REGFORCE RCHA were going to be mortar teams. The arm'd regts were strictly going to be arm'd reccee.

But hey, we got shinny new uniforms and a full re-org into four Canadian Divisions.

But the Ukrainian War has a lot of lessons about doing war on the cheap. Not sure how much of it we're absorbing but I definitely love idea of attack drones blacking the skies.

[Albany Rifles]

The Army has always been the bastard child when it comes to funding. Big ticket items like ships and planes get the glory and money. We're last to the trough. Pretty well the last time the Army got any sort of funding was the war in Afghanistan and that's through emergency funding for needed items like 155mm towed guns and the LEO C2s.

It's not the first time the Army had to make do. The M113, COYOTE Arm'd Reccee, and the LAV-III all served well beyond their expected life spans. We've lost an entire LEO C1 squadron due to wear and tear, At places, you could poke holes through the armour with a pencil. Funding gotten so bad that we were going to shift guns and tanks to the CFR. REGFORCE RCHA were going to be mortar teams. The arm'd regts were strictly going to be arm'd reccee.

But hey, we got shinny new uniforms and a full re-org into four Canadian Divisions.

But the Ukrainian War has a lot of lessons about doing war on the cheap. Not sure how much of it we're absorbing but I definitely love idea of attack drones blacking the skies.

If I may ask, as things may firm up on the Canadian Army reorg/rearm would you mind adding a thread to the Land Forces section? May get more readership there.

As a Tag Up Canadian (my grandparents made brief stops in the Maritimes) I am interested and I know others will as well.

[statquo]

The Army has always been the bastard child when it comes to funding. Big ticket items like ships and planes get the glory and money. We're last to the trough. Pretty well the last time the Army got any sort of funding was the war in Afghanistan and that's through emergency funding for needed items like 155mm towed guns and the LEO C2s.

It's not the first time the Army had to make do. The M113, COYOTE Arm'd Reccee, and the LAV-III all served well beyond their expected life spans. We've lost an entire LEO C1 squadron due to wear and tear, At places, you could poke holes through the armour with a pencil. Funding gotten so bad that we were going to shift guns and tanks to the CFR. REGFORCE RCHA were going to be mortar teams. The arm'd regts were strictly going to be arm'd reccee.

But hey, we got shinny new uniforms and a full re-org into four Canadian Divisions.

But the Ukrainian War has a lot of lessons about doing war on the cheap. Not sure how much of it we're absorbing but I definitely love idea of attack drones blacking the skies.

And even still our troops had to buy their own equipment in Latvia

An 'embarrassing' gear shortage has Canadian troops in Latvia buying their own helmets

[Officer of Engineers]

If I may ask, as things may firm up on the Canadian Army reorg/rearm would you mind adding a thread to the Land Forces section? May get more readership there.

Not much to tell. Division HQ replaced Area Command but nothing changed to the Order of Battle within each Area. However, will do when I get a grip for what exactly is 1 Cdn Div since it has no fixed Order of Battle.

And even still our troops had to buy their own equipment in Latvia

An 'embarrassing' gear shortage has Canadian troops in Latvia buying their own helmets

Helmets? All we had were blue berets.

[Officer of Engineers]

Sorry, just saw this.

We’re going to respectfully disagree. What did Stephen Harper accomplish other than lowering taxes, talking the BIG on the foreign policy stage, and keeping the social conservatives at bay? He gave everything to Quebec and then lost it to the NDP(!). Fiscal conservative? 6 straight deficits, $150 BILLION to the deficit, a nice follow-up to Chrétien and Martin who shaved $90 billion off of it and left it with a surplus. He spent like a liberal! And that was with great oil prices in the late-2000s-early 2010s. Shameful. Cozying up the Chinese? Got us nothing. Tough talk on Defense? Measly investment, if any. Embarrassing policy like the “Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline” targeting refugees (Syrians). And let’s not forget having the charisma and personality of a lightly dusted rock wearing a sweater.

Don’t get me wrong. The oil industry swung the balance of power to the West finally, and it was great to finally get a leader. But Stephen Harper was a placeholder until the Liberals, the governing party in this country, got their shit together.

Harper re-asserted as Canada a military power. In Afghanistan, only three countries charged into Taliban territory, the US, UK, and Canada. For a time, Canada was a power to be reckon with, dictating policy in Afghanistan through offensive combat actions. Only the Americans and the Brits did the same. The others while seeing more than their fair share of combat did not have an offensive posture to dislodge the Taliban through combat.

[Albany Rifles]

Helmets? All we had were blue berets.

Isn't Latvia a training deployment to NATO vice a peacekeeping deployment like the Balkans?

[Officer of Engineers]

Isn't Latvia a training deployment to NATO vice a peacekeeping deployment like the Balkans?

It's supposed to be a permanent deterrent force stationed in Latvia via Op REASSURANCE. DND calls it enhanced Forward Presence (eFP for those who loves acronyms). A mini 4CMBG of sorts. A squadron of LEO 2s (15 tanks) was added with the goal of raising the eFP Battle Group to Brigade.

[Albany Rifles]

It's supposed to be a permanent deterrent force stationed in Latvia via Op REASSURANCE. DND calls it enhanced Forward Presence (eFP for those who loves acronyms). A mini 4CMBG of sorts. A squadron of LEO 2s (15 tanks) was added with the goal of raising the eFP Battle Group to Brigade.

Thanks Sir. 4CMBG huh? I have visions of piranha in a giant fish tank floating in my head!

[statquo]

Sorry, just saw this.

Harper re-asserted as Canada a military power. In Afghanistan, only three countries charged into Taliban territory, the US, UK, and Canada.

I believe the Dutch had combat troops as well?

You’re not wrong. When he took over in 2006 we took over Kandahar, and domestically the Libs, NDP and Bloc wanted to end the combat mission and stick to humanitarian and reconstruction efforts.

For a time, Canada was a power to be reckon with, dictating policy in Afghanistan through offensive combat actions. Only the Americans and the Brits did the same. The others while seeing more than their fair share of combat did not have an offensive posture to dislodge the Taliban through combat.

Absolutely we did. And that work and effort improved the reputation of our military, domestically and internationally, after the neglect of the 90s.

But like I said earlier, Harper talked a big talk. He underfunded his own commitments, cut military spending in Con majority years in order to declare budget surpluses. His overall defense spending was no different than it is now. Harper just traded dollars for duties.

[Officer of Engineers]

I believe the Dutch had combat troops as well?

They did as did every NATO country, Australia, Sweden, and the Finns.

[Officer of Engineers]

But like I said earlier, Harper talked a big talk. He underfunded his own commitments, cut military spending in Con majority years in order to declare budget surpluses. His overall defense spending was no different than it is now. Harper just traded dollars for duties.

Not quite true. Under the guise of emergency spending, we've got 4 submarines, 120 LEO 2 tanks, and 3 batteries of M777 howitzers. None of it was approved by Parliament.

And I remind you that the F-35 was first authorized by Harper and cancelled under Trudeau. Had it not for the BOMBADIER-BOEING fisasco, the RCAF would have been stucked with the SUPERBUG.

[statquo]

Not quite true. Under the guise of emergency spending, we've got 4 submarines, 120 LEO 2 tanks, and 3 batteries of M777 howitzers. None of it was approved by Parliament.

But still quite true. The LEO 2s and M777s were a necessity after we took over Kandahar region, no? I remember Harper getting criticized for ‘escalating’ the war after the LEO 2 purchase. Getting sweated for not spending the 2% isn’t anything new. We’ve heard it before. Harper was lucky to have been told nicely. But he was hyperactive and deployed our military to Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, coastline of Somalia.. We took the tough missions without the 2%. And that was the trade off, even if it meant the wear and tear of equipment was kicked down the road.

And I remind you that the F-35 was first authorized by Harper and cancelled under Trudeau. Had it not for the BOMBADIER-BOEING fisasco, the RCAF would have been stucked with the SUPERBUG.

I remember… and it was inevitable we’d be signing back up for it, even if Trudeau wanted to look like he cared about cost and overruns. It was politics. It didn’t make sense to make that type of investment and then pull out. It wasn’t like the Avro Arrow suddenly came online for production.