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OPEC ponders how to co-exist with U.S. shale oil

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  • #16
    Originally posted by xerxes View Post
    Perhaps, i shouldn't have talked in absolutes => "nothing to do with US Gov.".
    For sure the government does have a sway with permits, tax and subsidies, but nothing like a Rosneft or Gasprom that reports to the Kremlin or an Aramco to reports to Riyadh.


    Market forces and the CEO's fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value drives shale producers (and Big Oil)'s decision when it comes to investment, IRR, production rate etc etc.
    Cannot say the something for the state-own players.

    Would have Sechin sold a portion of the crown jewel Rosneft to Qatar IA and Glencore without the blessing of the Kremlin ? no.
    Point taken, but some would say thats because the real power in the US is corporate

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Toby View Post
      Point taken, but some would say thats because the real power in the US is corporate
      Corporations have more influence in the US than in many countries due to their ability to lobby legislators for favorable policy. That said they don't hold the "real" power. Just looking at how corporate America responds anxiously to Trump's ramblings on twitter is plenty of indication of where the power truly lies.

      At the end of the day, Corporations have no hard power to enforce their wishes, they have to convince the US Government to do that on their behalf and they have to play within the US system rather than make their own rules.

      Working in Public Health, we have the power to shut down any corporation in the city. If we declare an area to be under quarantine, law enforcement is obligated ensure it is enforced and no unauthorized personnel enter or exit the area. The corporate entity can try to challenge the order through the courts, and may eventually get it overturned, but if they were to try to challenge it physically the National Guard shows up with heavy armor and helicopters to make Uncle Sam's position abundantly clear.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
        Corporations have more influence in the US than in many countries due to their ability to lobby legislators for favorable policy. That said they don't hold the "real" power. Just looking at how corporate America responds anxiously to Trump's ramblings on twitter is plenty of indication of where the power truly lies.

        At the end of the day, Corporations have no hard power to enforce their wishes, they have to convince the US Government to do that on their behalf and they have to play within the US system rather than make their own rules.

        Working in Public Health, we have the power to shut down any corporation in the city. If we declare an area to be under quarantine, law enforcement is obligated ensure it is enforced and no unauthorized personnel enter or exit the area. The corporate entity can try to challenge the order through the courts, and may eventually get it overturned, but if they were to try to challenge it physically the National Guard shows up with heavy armor and helicopters to make Uncle Sam's position abundantly clear.
        A well reasoned explanation and yet the US president is let think ...hmmm could he be corporate???? I admire the aspirations of the American people and yet as with any system there are flaws to let the wolf in.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Toby View Post
          A well reasoned explanation and yet the US president is let think ...hmmm could he be corporate???? I admire the aspirations of the American people and yet as with any system there are flaws to let the wolf in.
          I don't recall Trump's antics on twitter affecting the stock market prior to his political ascendancy. His role in the US government gives him vastly more power than he ever had as Trump the corporate boss.

          Now to see if he ever learns how to wield it effectively...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
            I don't recall Trump's antics on twitter affecting the stock market prior to his political ascendancy. His role in the US government gives him vastly more power than he ever had as Trump the corporate boss.

            Now to see if he ever learns how to wield it effectively...
            and in summary .....please read the above ...lol

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
              I don't recall Trump's antics on twitter affecting the stock market prior to his political ascendancy. His role in the US government gives him vastly more power than he ever had as Trump the corporate boss.

              Now to see if he ever learns how to wield it effectively...
              I don't think the stock market cares about Trump personally. But it does like the fact that the GOP are in charge in the WH, House of Rep and the Senate. Financial market understands that it is the pro-growth internationalist (likes of G. Cohen) that hold sway over the isolationist camp (Bannon). Trump may even be impeached, and I believe the market will have no more than a slight correction before resuming its upward trajectory into the overvaluation.

              That said Market does fear the likes of Sanders or Bannon, if ever they were in power. Two very different people with two very different agenda, but bad for growth.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by xerxes View Post
                I don't think the stock market cares about Trump personally.
                Does anybody?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Toby View Post
                  Does anybody?
                  Yes, the second in line of the Saudi throne takes him seriously. In fact, he took him so seriously that he architected the rift with Qatar. He missed the point that Trump is all about showmanship. First his never ending war with Yemen and now this. The crown prince wants to run without first learning how to walk. Good for him as he has aspiration, but his stance against Qatar will actually backfire as will his rhetoric of wanting to hit Iran. The lad is no Bismarck.

                  Funny, though Riyadh calls Qatar a sponsor of terrorism (not a false claim). With US CENTCOM being based there, what does that make the Americans: state-sponsoring terrorism ? what the world has come to.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by xerxes View Post
                    Yes, the second in line of the Saudi throne takes him seriously. In fact, he took him so seriously that he architected the rift with Qatar. He missed the point that Trump is all about showmanship. First his never ending war with Yemen and now this. The crown prince wants to run without first learning how to walk. Good for him as he has aspiration, but his stance against Qatar will actually backfire as will his rhetoric of wanting to hit Iran. The lad is no Bismarck.

                    Funny, though Riyadh calls Qatar a sponsor of terrorism (not a false claim). With US CENTCOM being based there, what does that make the Americans: state-sponsoring terrorism ? what the world has come to.
                    Would that be the now 1st in line?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      yes,
                      listen closely ... can you hear the war drums
                      Hey at least, it is going to make Aramco have a better IPO at a higher valuation

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by xerxes View Post
                        With US CENTCOM being based there, what does that make the Americans: state-sponsoring terrorism ? what the world has come to.
                        Does an American base in a foreign country make the Americans a sponsor, an occupier, or just a tenant?

                        Paying rent for a facility doesn't give Washington's blessing to everything Qatar's Emir does. Then again, Germany has military installations in both Florida and New Mexico in the US, perhaps we should start talking about the "German sponsored US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                          Does an American base in a foreign country make the Americans a sponsor, an occupier, or just a tenant?

                          Paying rent for a facility doesn't give Washington's blessing to everything Qatar's Emir does. Then again, Germany has military installations in both Florida and New Mexico in the US, perhaps we should start talking about the "German sponsored US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"...
                          And you would be correct.
                          On that basis specifically that is not a good reason.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                            Then again, Germany has military installations in both Florida and New Mexico in the US, perhaps we should start talking about the "German sponsored US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"...
                            Where?

                            They have training squadrons stationed at Holloman AFB and NAS P-Cola. These are Tenant Training Units under the operational command of the USAF
                            Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Now on track to be actually bigger than Saudi Arabia:

                              https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1F805C

                              Maybe OPEC should send us an invitation? :D

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by citanon View Post
                                Now on track to be actually bigger than Saudi Arabia:

                                https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1F805C

                                Maybe OPEC should send us an invitation? :D
                                Unlikely, as US doesn't have national or quasi national oil companies. Free market will determine US shale output and allocate investments not technocrats.
                                Whereas OPEC members oil companies are ruled by technocrats who have a habit of mudding the line between return on investment and national policy.

                                Comment

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