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  • Toyota recalling Prius

    Seems like the biggest car maker is gonna get a lot of critisism over this recall , brakes and accelerator problems , millions recalled worldwide will do their rep no good at all , number one for reliability is certainly dented



    Japanese carmaker Toyota Motor Corp said it was preparing a global recall of its new Prius model, risking a fresh dent to its battered reputation for quality and reliability.

    As U.S. plants resumed production of eight models involved in an earlier safety recall, the world's largest automaker readied action on the hybrid car in Japan as early as Tuesday.

    Steps to fix problems with delayed braking in certain road conditions would follow in the United States, Europe and other markets, a source familiar with the plans said.

    Toyota said Monday it restarted production at six U.S. and Canadian plants "with no issues," a week after halting work, as problems with unintended acceleration spiralled into the recall of over 8 million vehicles worldwide.

    The company, which has boosted its green credentials with the low-emission Prius, has said it was discussing with safety authorities worldwide how to resolve a software glitch on the Prius.

    Toyota faces further scrutiny Wednesday, when its North America CEO Yoshimi Inaba testifies to Congress in front of the House Oversight Committee in Washington.

    Transportation secretary Ray Lahood and National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration Administrator David Strickland will also testify.

    U.S. safety authorities and members of the Obama administration have accused Toyota of responding too slowly to problems related to uncontrolled acceleration that have been linked to up to 19 crash deaths in the United States over the past decade.

    Toyota President Akio Toyoda Friday apologised for the earlier series of recalls. He said the company was rushing to reach a decision on the Prius and was taking the unusual step of bringing in outside experts to review quality controls.

    A Toyota Motor Europe spokesman said Monday that, to date, it had received no reports of problems with the new Prius in the region, but a decision on the next steps for the model, involving discussion with other regions, would be made "very soon."

    A U.S. spokesman said the company expected to have a solution early this week but so far had not changed its stance.

    Since the launch of the new Prius last May, Toyota has sold around 200,000 of the cars in Japan, 103,200 in the United States and 29,000 in Europe.

    (Reporting by David Bailey, Bernie Woodall, Chang-Ran Kim, Taiga Uranaka; Writing by Helen
    Last edited by tankie; 09 Feb 10,, 11:09.

  • #2
    As one automotive engineer said on the radio last night, no car company is perfect, and Toyota may have overreached.

    He speculated that the computer problem that's causing the brakes on the Prius to go out for seconds at a time when it hits a rough spot in the road is not an error in the program, but the result of Toyota programming the computer to squeeze as much performance in terms of miles per gallon as it can out of the car. The better the mileage, the more cars sold.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    • #3
      With the US automakers clawing to get themselves into the same league with Toyota in terms of quaility, reliability and low costs, this large-scale recall couldnt have come at a better or worse time depending on how you look at it.

      I'm slanted cause I own a Corolla and my family has owned Toyota's since I was born, but frankly this is the only major recall of Toyota's I can remember in the last 10 years or so. I wish I could say the same for GM or Ford vehicles.
      You know JJ, Him could do it....

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      • #4
        no big deal, minor fix, a spacer a size of a quater needs to be installed into a gas pedal block. i still thinkl toyota is no1 in quality.
        "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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        • #5
          It's a good time to buy Toyota used cars (not on the recall list) and new cars soon. You can really put the screws to the dealer now.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
            ...He speculated that the computer problem that's causing the brakes on the Prius to go out for seconds at a time when it hits a rough spot in the road is not an error in the program, but the result of Toyota programming the computer to squeeze as much performance in terms of miles per gallon as it can out of the car.
            Ahh, so it's a feature.

            Toyota should hire Microsoft's PR folks.
            "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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            • #7
              Lawsuits , ah well , it had to happen , and in this scenario ,, rightly so . But the word , unintended , will play a big part in the case , as it obviously was , unintended IMO


              Toyota Motor Corp's woes deepened ahead of its testimony to Congress on safety issues, as it revealed it faces a U.S. criminal probe into the handling of its massive recalls, while Japan voiced concern over the economic impact of the automakers' problems.

              New U.S. documents showed on Monday how the company beat back U.S. safety regulators' efforts for a wider probe in 2007 and disclosure of a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission request for documents.

              It all comes as Toyota's top executive prepared for a hearing on Capitol Hill over unintended acceleration problems that have been linked to at least five U.S. deaths, with 29 other fatality reports being examined.

              In a gesture it said was intended to reassure customers, Toyota said it would install brake-override systems on three more models of vehicles already on U.S. roads: the Tacoma truck going back to 2005 model year, the Venza crossover from 2009 and the Sequoia SUV.

              Shares of Toyota fell 0.5 percent to 3,325 yen on Tuesday in Tokyo, matching the Nikkei 225's fall, suggesting little investor reaction to news of the criminal investigation and the plan for an additional brake override upgrade.

              "Investors are not worried about such one-time costs. Instead they welcome Toyota's efforts to restore confidence in its products and its relations with the U.S. government regardless of the costs," said Yoshihiko Tabei, analyst at Kazaka Securities.

              He said the earnings forecast Toyota gave on February 4 for the year ending next month will likely be unaffected by the costs of the recalls and voluntary upgrades, while investors are more worried whether Toyota can revamp its brand and avoid a sales slump next business year.

              A Japanese government official expressed concern about the effect Toyota's problems could have on Japan's exports.

              "Strong growth in Asia-bound exports seems to be slowing, and we also have to consider Toyota's recalls, so we've given a cautious judgement on exports," Keisuke Tsumura, a parliamentary secretary on economic affairs, said as the government issued a report on the economy.

              Toyota has recalled more than 8.5 million vehicles globally in recent months for problems including sticky accelerators, accelerators that can be pinned down by loose floor mats and a braking glitch affecting its hybrid models.

              It is also investigating reports of steering problems in the Corolla, its second most popular U.S. model.

              Toyota's extra installation of the brake-override systems extends the scope and cost of a recall that had already targeted five models including the top-selling Camry. Toyota said it would have the same safety technology on most new models sold in the United States by the end of 2010.

              PRELUDE TO TESTIMONY

              Akio Toyoda, who took the helm at the world No. 1 automaker last June, is scheduled to testify before the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Wednesday.

              In a preview of the line he could take in his testimony, Toyoda said in a statement published in the Wall Street Journal that he was committed to making sure that Toyota learned from the crisis and changed its ways.

              "It is clear to me that in recent years we didn't listen as carefully as we should -- or respond as quickly as we must -- to our customers' concerns," Toyoda said. "While we investigated malfunctions in good faith, we focussed too narrowly on technical issues without taking full account of how our customers use our vehicles."

              The extended apology from Toyoda, a grandson of the company's founder, came hours after Toyota said it had received a federal grand jury subpoena from the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan on February 8.

              The automaker also said the SEC had asked for documents related to unintended acceleration of Toyota vehicles and the company's disclosure policies.

              Toyota said it would cooperate with the investigations
              Last edited by tankie; 23 Feb 10,, 13:39.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tankie View Post
                Lawsuits , ah well , it had to happen , and in this scenario ,, rightly so . But the word , unintended , will play a big part in the case , as it obviously was , unintended IMO
                Rumor has it that the NHTSA has emails from Toyota execs bragging about how they buried the acceleration problem with the floormat "fix".

                If that's true, Toyota will face some serious criticism on the hill.
                "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                • #9
                  Here's a demonstration of how one can stop a "runaway Prius."

                  By the way, no one has been able to duplicate any of the reported incidents of the so-called "runaway" Prius. No one could find the bug in the programming. No one was able to set off the bug. No one other than the drivers have witnessed these events.

                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Here's a demonstration of how one can stop a "runaway Prius."

                    By the way, no one has been able to duplicate any of the reported incidents of the so-called "runaway" Prius. No one could find the bug in the programming. No one was able to set off the bug. No one other than the drivers have witnessed these events.

                    Okay, this guy is hilarious!

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                    • #11
                      Sometimes you need to drop some F-bombs to really get the point across.

                      Well, looks like Toyota and the feds couldn't find anything wrong with the "run away" Prius in San Diego.

                      I think a big, fat, "I TOLD YOU SO" should be in order.

                      Toyota casts doubt on Prius case

                      By ELLIOT SPAGAT and TOM KRISHER, Associated Press Writers Elliot Spagat And Tom Krisher, Associated Press Writers – 11 mins ago

                      SAN DIEGO – Toyota cast doubt Monday on a California man's claim that his Prius sped out of control, saying the report is inconsistent with the findings of the company's preliminary investigation.

                      Toyota said in a statement that the accelerator pedal was tested and found to be working normally and a backup safety system worked properly. The automaker said the front brakes showed severe wear and damage from overheating, but the rear brakes and parking brake were in good condition.

                      The motorist, James Sikes, said his car raced to 94 mph on a freeway near San Diego last week. The March 8 incident ended when Sikes stopped the car with help from a California Highway Patrol officer.

                      "While a final report is not yet complete, there are strong indications that the driver's account of the event is inconsistent with the findings of the preliminary analysis," the statement said.

                      A telephone message seeking comment on Toyota's assertions was left by The Associated Press at the office of Sikes' attorney, John H. Gomez.

                      Toyota said testing found that the car's accelerator pedal had no mechanical binding or friction, and the floor mat was not interfering with or touching the pedal.

                      A self-diagnostic system did show evidence of repeated applications of the accelerator and brake pedals, Toyota said.

                      "The data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times," Mike Michels, vice president of corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, told a press conference.

                      In a test, the front brakes were replaced and then purposely overheated by continuous light application and still stopped the car, the company said.

                      According to Toyota, the Prius has a self-protection system that cuts engine power if the brake pedal is pressed moderately or greater. Tests found that system to be functioning, the carmaker said. The company also said the car's push-button power switch worked normally and shut off the vehicle when pressed for three seconds, and that the shift lever worked normally and allowed neutral to be selected.

                      The power management computer contained no diagnostic trouble codes, and the dashboard malfunction lights were not activated, Toyota said.

                      Earlier in the day, federal regulators said they were reviewing data from the gas-electric hybrid but so far had not found anything to explain the out-of-control acceleration reported by Sikes.

                      "We would caution people that our work continues and that we may never know exactly what happened with this car," the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement.

                      Inspectors said they tried to duplicate the acceleration during a two-hour test drive but could not.

                      Sikes has said the car sped up to 94 mph on a freeway near San Diego. He said he jammed on the brakes trying to stop it.

                      Sikes called 911, and a highway patrol officer helped bring the vehicle to a safe stop. Though no one was injured, the episode quickly becoming a high-profile headache for Toyota, which like NHTSA sent in an engineering team to investigate.

                      Gomez, the attorney for Sikes, said the failure to recreate the incident was insignificant and not surprising.

                      "They have never been able to replicate an incident of sudden acceleration. Mr. Sikes never had a problem in the three years he owned this vehicle," he said Sunday.

                      But Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., suggested the failure to duplicate the stuck accelerator, and the presence of a backup system in the car, raised questions about Sikes' story.

                      "It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but let's understand, it doesn't mean it did happen," Issa said on CBS' "The Early Show."

                      NHTSA is looking into claims by more than 60 Toyota owners that their vehicles had accelerated unexpectedly even after they were supposedly fixed.

                      Regulators said in a statement that Sikes' Prius was equipped with a backup safety device that reduces power to the wheels when the brakes and gas are pressed at the same time.

                      "The system on Mr. Sikes' Prius worked during our engineers' test drive," the statement said.

                      While investigators from Toyota and NHTSA reviewed the Prius during the same two days, a Transportation Department official said their investigations are separate.

                      "It does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time," said a memo prepared for Congress that cited a Toyota official.

                      Toyota has recalled millions of cars because floor mats can snag gas pedals or accelerators can stick. Sikes' car was covered by the floor mat recall but not the one for sticky accelerators. He later told reporters that he tried to pull on the gas pedal during his harrowing ride, but it didn't "move at all."
                      That last line was interesting. He claims that the gas peddle "didn't move at all" when he tried to pull on it (assuming using his foot and not his hands). That means the gas peddle was physically stuck and not a programming glitch in the fly-by-wire system.
                      Last edited by gunnut; 15 Mar 10,, 22:11.
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                      • #12
                        in 2005 when i went to buy a new car, i first went to Toyota, i was shopping for Camry solara, besides the fact that i didn't really feel it was comfortable and roomy (no wonder than i drove full size gm car), salesman was a azzhole, acted like he is doing me a favor, after 20 min i told him ..........himself, went across the street and bought accord, it was more comfortable and roomy than Camry. i never regretted i bought Honda, now i drive second Honda i got from that dealer.
                        well, I'm glad Toyota salesman "convinced" me not to buy Toyota 5 years ago, i should stop by and thank him, lol.
                        "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          ...Well, looks like Toyota and the feds couldn't find anything wrong with the "run away" Prius in San Diego.

                          ...That last line was interesting. He claims that the gas peddle "didn't move at all" when he tried to pull on it (assuming using his foot and not his hands). That means the gas peddle was physically stuck and not a programming glitch in the fly-by-wire system.
                          Well, this doesn't sound normal...
                          "The data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times," Mike Michels, vice president of corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA, told a press conference.
                          I've never known a computer that didn't ever hiccup at least occasionally, that's why you build in redundancy.

                          Toyota's "black boxes" can only be decoded by Toyota, NHTSA can't read them.

                          Other cars that use electronic throttle controls have brake disconnects, Toyota left that out on most models to save cost.

                          Maybe he couldn't pull up the gas pedal because it was already all the way up?

                          Think the jury is still out on this one...
                          "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by highsea View Post
                            Well, this doesn't sound normal...I've never known a computer that didn't ever hiccup at least occasionally, that's why you build in redundancy.

                            Toyota's "black boxes" can only be decoded by Toyota, NHTSA can't read them.

                            Other cars that use electronic throttle controls have brake disconnects, Toyota left that out on most models to save cost.

                            Maybe he couldn't pull up the gas pedal because it was already all the way up?

                            Think the jury is still out on this one...
                            There are redundancies built into the system. Toyota said that flooring both the gas and the brake will kill the engine. Pressing and holding the start-stop button for 3 seconds will kill the system, as demonstrated in that video I posted.

                            There are roughly 60 reported incidents of problematic Toyotas, out of millions of them on the road. I think it's pretty good that we don't have more problems. And also sad that we have enough stupid people on the road who can't react when something might be out of the norm.
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                              There are redundancies built into the system. Toyota said that flooring both the gas and the brake will kill the engine. Pressing and holding the start-stop button for 3 seconds will kill the system, as demonstrated in that video I posted.
                              Those aren't redundancies- they are procedures.

                              A redundancy would be a second channel with error-checking on the throttle control that shut down the system when the two sides were not in agreement.

                              A fail-safe would be an automatic disconnect of the throttle control when the brake is applied. BMW, Mercedes, Volvo all do this.

                              Things like flooring the gas and brake at the same time or holding a button down for 3 seconds aren't good emergency procedures, expecially if you're going like a bat out of hell down the freeway trying to avoid a wreck, kids are screaming, etc.

                              They're fine when you're cool,calm and collected, and worthless the rest of the time.
                              "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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