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Russo-Ukrainian war: Strategic and economic theatres

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  • https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ms-2022-07-21/
    The Ukraine and Russians to resume corn and wheat shipments!
    Is it being cynical and/or skeptical to be suspicious of Russians “bearing gifts”?

    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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    • Originally posted by Amled View Post
      https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ms-2022-07-21/
      The Ukraine and Russians to resume corn and wheat shipments!
      Is it being cynical and/or skeptical to be suspicious of Russians “bearing gifts”?
      There damn well better be a bunch of minesweepers ahead of those ships when they leave UKR ports.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

      Comment


      • It took less than 24 hours for the Russians to violate the agreement not to target Ukrainian ports where grain and other foodstuffs could be shipped out!
        The curious thing is that the “TASS” link even mentions the ports that will be exempt from bombardments; including Odessa!
        It will be interesting to see how the Kremlin’s talking heads will justify breaking an agreement less than 24 hours after they signed it.


        https://www.republicworld.com/world-...ticleshow.html
        https://tass.com/economy/1483883
        When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

        Comment


        • The recent Russian missile strike on Odessa’s port does raise an interesting perspective.
          Namely WHY?
          The Russians must have known; probably since their naval blockade was established,
          the location of the targeted ship. They could have sunk it at time?
          So why was it less than 24 hours after a “form” of agreement was reached with the Ukrainian’s was reached,
          that they felt this was the right time to attack the port?
          To send a message, but to whom?
          The people and defenders of Odessa; as well as the rest of Ukraine, have had ample proof that the enemy is at the gate.
          So if not to them, who?
          It might simply be Russia flexing its muscles, but the venue doesn’t make sense.
          They are already considered pariahs by a much of the world.
          So is it really to their advantage to be seen as endangering food from reaching people facing starvation?
          That plus the shitstorm they are facing in the media and from leading politicians the world over.
          Case in point, wonder how the Turkish Defense Minister liked being played by his Russian counterpart?


          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...sh-2022-07-23/

          When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

          Comment


          • I was thinking exactly the same thing about the timing issue. The only thing I can think of was that the submarine involved had been given its orders shortly before the treaty was agreed to and was maintaining radio silence so as to avoid detection. It was a diesel boat after all not a SSN. So basically a stuff up but frankly if so it shows a massive degree of incompetence on the part of Russia's Black Sea naval command. (God forbid it was an SSBM and Russia didn't have effective real time coms with them!)

            Point is though regardless of the cause more repetitions of this kind of conduct is going to make a peace deal with Ukraine and indeed the entire West untenable.
            Last edited by Monash; 27 Jul 22,, 06:33.
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

            Comment


            • OK so when know know that (allegedly) the target of the missile attack in question was a Ukrainian naval vessel and a warehouse alleged to contain munitions, which if true failed to detonate when struck so that was almost certainly a 'miss'. So that leaves the question of how Ukraine is supposed to run grain exports through a port that could be subject to attack any time Russia tries to strike military targets with not very accurate PGMs.

              So what exactly is Ukraine supposed to do? De-militarize Odessa and make it an open city? Because unless they do Russia can claim that any strike they make was aimed at legitimate military assets, even if most of the time they miss! And I'm sure the Russian's wouldn't take advantage of any undefended status Ukraine announced in that situation. Cross their hearts and hope to die!

              Going to interesting to see how many grain ships get in and out.
              Last edited by Monash; 28 Jul 22,, 04:14.
              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                So what exactly is Ukraine supposed to do? De-militarize Odessa and make it an open city? Because unless they do Russia can claim that any strike they make was aimed at legitimate military assets, even if most of the time they miss! And I'm sure the Russian's wouldn't take advantage of any undefended status Ukraine announced that situation. Cross their hearts and hope to die!
                You hit the nail on the head: Russia will never -not in a million years- honor such an open city declaration.
                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                Comment


                • Australian foreign minister Penny Wong has had an impressive start to her tenure. She has helped to slow China's push into the south Pacific; had successful visits to Indonesia & her home country of Malaysia - speaking to locals in their own language (being Chinese & openly gay doesn't usually play well in these nations, making her success all the more imporessive); and she has taken some steps toward reparing relations with China without sacrificing any of our positions on human rights, Taiwan etc.

                  Now she has walked out on Sergey Lavrov at the East Asia summit:

                  It is understood an Australian official was still present while the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, spoke, and that it was not a pre-planned protest from Wong.

                  “Minister Wong could not sit through Mr Lavrov’s attempt to justify the murder of innocent Ukrainians,” a spokesperson said.
                  Fuck you very much Sergey.

                  https://www.theguardian.com/australi...on#top-of-blog


                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    Australian foreign minister Penny Wong has had an impressive start to her tenure. She has helped to slow China's push into the south Pacific; had successful visits to Indonesia & her home country of Malaysia - speaking to locals in their own language (being Chinese & openly gay doesn't usually play well in these nations, making her success all the more imporessive); and she has taken some steps toward reparing relations with China without sacrificing any of our positions on human rights, Taiwan etc.

                    Now she has walked out on Sergey Lavrov at the East Asia summit:



                    Fuck you very much Sergey.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...on#top-of-blog

                    For a small country population wise Australia always swings way above its weight.

                    Must be all those dangerous beasties which makes them feisty!

                    Good job to the Minister!
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Wonders never ceased. A politicians who can't stand bellyaching.
                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                        For a small country population wise Australia always swings way above its weight.

                        Must be all those dangerous beasties which makes them feisty!

                        Good job to the Minister!
                        Got to be all those Sheilas. Luckily for some they are in Australia, ahem...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                          Got to be all those Sheilas. Luckily for some they are in Australia, ahem...
                          Don’t confuse Shelia with “Karen.”
                          Shelia is that rare kind of woman who can both put up with and shut down Bruce.
                          Trust me?
                          I'm an economist!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                            Got to be all those Sheilas. Luckily for some they are in Australia, ahem...
                            Not that lucky if you happen to live here.
                            sigpic

                            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              Not that lucky if you happen to live here.
                              Quit your yapping. You're single.
                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                Quit your yapping. You're single.
                                Precisely. Do the math.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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