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Should firearms be outlawed in the US?

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  • Trooth
    replied
    Very interesting.

    I do have one comment :-

    " The resident, using the element of surprise, subdued the intruder with the butt of his gun "

    In this sense, is that a firearm or a club? If he'd shot hm i think would have fitted in better with the story.

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  • ChrisF202
    replied
    Heres an article that should put the debate to rest:

    http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchiv...99/4/14/111635

    A Hero and his Tools
    Ken Hamblin
    April 14, 1999

    You don't always hear the good news, especially when it's left up to the anti-Second Amendment liberals who abound in the newspapers of our nation.
    That being the case, I've chosen to take it upon myself to pass along the story of an incident that otherwise would most likely never be known beyond the boundaries of the city where it happened.

    That city is Phoenix, and the incident in question concerns the untimely death of 28-year-old police officer Marc Atkinson, who was shot twice in the head last weekend, allegedly by Felipe Petrona-Cabanas, a 17-year-old Mexican national who had crossed the border illegally.

    Today Petrona-Cabanas is a guest of the people of Arizona, tucked away in the Maricopa County Jail for investigation of first-degree murder, attempted murder and aggravated assault, after being transferred there from a hospital in Phoenix.

    But I'm getting a little ahead of myself. This isn't just another story about a police officer killed in the line of duty.

    It's also about a super citizen named Rory Vertigan, a 27-year-old who happened along right at the moment when Atkinson was shot. And, I might add, who happened to be armed.

    ``When the suspects trained their weapons at him,'' the Arizona Republic reported, ``Vertigan opened fire with his Glock 31, raking the vehicle with 14 rounds and wounding one of the men in the back.''

    When one of the assailants tried to flee, Vertigan chased him down and tackled him. It was a classic case of an armed citizen rushing to the aid of a police officer in need.

    Needless to say, Vertigan's courage was widely praised by peace officers everywhere.

    ``That individual is one of the true heroes of our time,'' said Phoenix Police Chief Harold Hurtt.

    Unfortunately, a lot of Americans never get an opportunity to learn about the courage of men like Rory Vertigan. The social workers who manage the mainstream media seldom print articles that demonstrate the benefits to the community of allowing Mr. and Mrs. Average American to be armed.

    The day after his courageous act, Verdigan published an open letter to the people of Phoenix.

    ``I want to say that I am extremely saddened by the events that took Officer Marc Atkinson's life,'' he said, ``and for the pain and suffering that his family is now going through.''

    No question there was a tragedy that night in Phoenix. But I'm certain his family's pain would have been much greater if the officer's killers had slipped back into Mexico.

    ``Last night I reacted by doing what I thought was the right thing to do,'' Vertigan continued. ``I witnessed a police officer being shot and knew that I had to do something. When I confronted the individuals ... they turned their guns on me. I was given no choice but to defend myself with my weapon.''

    Vertigan expressed his appreciation to the Phoenix Police Department for its assistance in getting him professional counseling to help him cope with the aftereffects of the gun battle.

    Meanwhile, in my own Colorado, the liberals opposing a proposed law which would abolish repressive laws against concealed weapons still contend that no good will come of arming citizens like Vertigan.

    But here, courtesy of the National Rifle Association, are a few more cases to challenge their willing surrender to the armed bad guys:

    When a quick-thinking Delaware resident heard a noise in his garage early one morning, he instructed his wife to call the police and grabbed his shotgun to investigate. The resident, using the element of surprise, subdued the intruder with the butt of his gun and detained him until the police arrived.

    In Hayward, Calif., a man dozing on his couch late one evening heard heavy pounding at his front door. The door broke open and a large man wearing a ski mask attempted to force his way into the residence. The shaken homeowner fired several shots from his nearby .38-cal revolver, fatally wounding the intruder. Police ruled the shooting justified.

    In Pittsburgh, a 27-year-old pizza-delivery man was snookered into making a delivery to a vacant house, where he was confronted by a couple of teen-age stickup artists. He pulled his licensed semiautomatic and shot one of the would-be robbers, who fled. Police later found the wounded bad guy hiding in nearby bushes. The delivery man wasn't charged.

    The apprehension of Officer Atkinson's murderers by an armed citizen speaks for itself. To any fair-minded American, cases like this ought to put to rest once and for all the debate over gun control.

    c.1999 Ken Hamblin

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  • Praxus
    replied
    how you are going to protect yourself with these high powered combat capable weapons.
    So your saying a .50 caliber machine gun couldn't be used to protect yourself from the tyranny of a government gone bad?

    With a Class III lisence I believe you can own an M2 .50 Caliber Machine Gun in a couple dozen states.

    I can understand the rationale in small arms, not in combat weapons.
    I am not talking about rocket launchers and things like this. If there were to be a revolution, their would plenty of them laying on the ground when the time came we needed one.

    This is where conservatives cross the line.
    I'm mostly a conservitive, there are a few and I emphasize few things I agree with on the other side of the isle but not for the reason they support it.
    Last edited by Praxus; 16 Jan 04,, 17:29.

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  • Ironduke
    replied
    For the record, I don't have a problem with most automatic weapons. My dad has a few Uzis.

    Personally I would like to collect a few assault rifles mainly for collection purposes.

    Large caliber machine guns, don't really see a need for unless collecting.

    Leave a comment:


  • sam0001
    replied
    I agree with IRONMAN 100%. Small arms and shot guns are OK. tanks, artilaries, machine guns, and assault rifles should be banned. Praxus, explain to me, how you are going to protect yourself with these high powered combat capable weapons. I just dont understand. I can understand the rationale in small arms, not in combat weapons. This is where conservatives cross the line. People can own what they like even tanks, but they must be a disabled weapon, in the sense that you would not be able to shoot using those weapons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I do not believe civilians should have it any easier over the military. If I could be charged for having .50cal ammo for a restricted weapon, so should the civies.

    I've brought people up on charges for losing weapons parts (ie firing pins) or actual weapons themselves. The civies should not have it any easier. Weapons ownership is a responsibility before it is a right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trooth
    replied
    I would imagine that the guy with the heavy machine gun, assault rifle, or whatever, is going to kill more people than he is going to get killed by whether they are armed or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Praxus
    replied
    Now how would they be able to kill more people then if they had a semi-auto rifle. After all none of the people would be armed.

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  • Trooth
    replied
    put it on the back of a truck and then drive into a car park?

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  • Praxus
    replied
    If you have a spotless Criminal record, then why can't you have a Heavy Machine Gun?

    It's not like you could commit a crime with it. Oh maybe I'll sneak my 100 lbs Machine Gun in, shoot a bunch of people then run away:LOL

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  • Trooth
    replied
    Why not?

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  • Ironduke
    replied
    I believe in some limitations.

    Nobody should have to own artillery or heavy machine guns :)

    Unless they're antiques. :)

    Leave a comment:


  • 2DREZQ
    replied
    No guns shouldn't be banned. It isn't a political reality to attempt to do so, anyway. The large majority of Americans believe that they have the right to own some sort of firearm. Where they differ is in what degree they believe in government placing limitations on that right.

    Some believe in NO limits

    a few believe in a few limitations

    quite a few believe in nebulous "reasonable" limits

    a few believe in many and strict limitations

    a tiny few believe in a total, or near total, ban.

    As with anything political, we get about what we deserve.

    (BTW, I carry a gun quite often.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Leader
    replied
    Originally posted by M21Sniper
    Morality is ENTIRELY subjective.

    What was moral for a Roman citizen is not moral for us today.

    God, or the lackthereof, have nothing to do with it.
    If there is no god, morally is subjective. At least your beliefs are logically consistent.

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  • sam0001
    replied
    M21Sniper
    Not really. It is hippocracy and human convinience to define morality. Infact all relegions are man made. What is god made is only righteousness. That is nothing but eternal truth. Knowledge, Love and Power are the only things that lead to god. Every thing else is material. People twist, turn and tweek things to their intrest and advantages. People have opinions and belifs. But righteousness does not change. It is TRUTH. The ultimate truth. God is far more superior than names, people and pictures. It is the supreme that holds the universe togehter and the knowledge and wisdom.

    GOD = INFINITE KNOWLDEGE/WISDOM + INFINITE POWER + INFINITE LOVE.
    Nothing else is known for sure.

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