American being based on Christianity is a Falacy.

[Praxus]

I hear so many people trying to justify the statue in Alabama by claiming that the United States was founded upon Christian principles. When anyone who even lightly studies the founding of this Country will find it to be false.

The first and most obvious reason of why we are not is that Thomas Jefferson the writer of the Declaration of Independence is a Deist and a Unitarian. He did not believe that Christ was God nor did he believe God could change reality. Now compare the Ten Commandments to the American Constitution.

The First Four Commandments order unquestionable obediance to God. The Fifth Ammendment orders you to honor your father and mother. Sugesting that Stalins doughter honor him is rediculis, it does not say "if they deserve honor" it just says "Honor your Father and Mother". The last five commandments are common in every law code dating back to the Code of Hamurabi. This statement is undefendable as soon as it is challanged.

[Ironduke]

I would say that the US is a Christian nation, but religion should be left out of state affairs.

[Leader]

The United States wasn't founded on the religion of Christianity but it was founded on the philosophy of Christianity. The country was however founded on a belief in a God or a Creator. You can look on the back of your money if you don't believe me.

[Hawg166]

Praxus you are right in some and off base in others. First of all the Ten Commandments are not Christian but Jewish. yes they exist in our Old Testament, however we are not bound to them. Theologically speaking they are part of the old dispensation. In the new dispensation man is judged solely by his faith in Gods Son or the lack of faith thereof. The Apostle Paul very clearly and forcefully lays this out in the Book of Romans in chapter 5.
To say that the tenets of the American culture were not Christian is a falacy. beacon Hill in Boston that city ona hill was on a hill so that the light of Gods people could shine. have you ever of Roger Williams ? The quakers ? the shakers ? the frikkin Pilgrims ? the puritans ? The point is is that while the big men or the founding fathers were highly influenced by the phlosophes of Europe and were indeed agnostic and deist and unitarian, the people that were the fabric of early America were Christian in their faith overwhelmingly.While TJ may have ben a deist, Washington was not. Dont think all of the big men were Agnostic or deist. Dont think American here Praxus think European. Untill the 19th century there was few indigenous Americans. Most were transplanted Europeans and to seperate Christianity from Europeans is a feat the greatest spinster and historians could never do. Western Civillization in iretievably connected to Christianity because the fibre of early Europe was woven with Judeo / Christian tenets.
The few men that penned the early documents of our nation were not the majority. Dont you know that pillars behind the Supreme Court Justices in DC are inscribed with the ten Commandments. If Judeo / Christian sentements were not ingrained in the most basic fibres of our American society surely this would not be.

[Ziska]

*rubs his hands together in anticipation*

Ohh ohh! An argument about religion! My favourite!

First up, I make a one important assumption. That the Bible (especially the King James Version) is the complete and accurate Word of God. This assumption is based on nothing more than my own personal faith. However, it is one shared my several billion people in this world.

You may disagree that the Bible is the only word of God, or that it applies to you, but that is beside the point. As my only proof is an intangible (faith), we will just have to wait till judgment day to see who's right. If you want to prove me wrong, you'll have to do so from the Bible. Otherwise, we can agree to disagree. I'm easy either way.

Ok, a couple of points.

1. Praxus is right. The United States, as defined by the Constitution, is NOT based on Christianity. If it was, it would defenitely acknowledge that God is the Head over all the nations. However it does not, and instead it seeks to divorce religion and civil authority (an impossibility). Most of the signatories of the Constitution didn't even believe in the Christian God.

2. America has a very strong Christian heritage, and it is to her detriment that she has has ignored this for so long. If so many Americans believe that Christ is the King of Kings, why do they deny this in their Constitution?

3. I make no distinction between the Jews of the Old Testament and modern-day Christians. It is a linear progression, ever since the time of Adam and Eve. We are called Christians because we believe that the sacrifice of Christ saved us. People have been looking towards the Messiah ever since the Fall.

Do you think that Abraham was saved in a different way to Daniel? Melchizedek to Peter? All who have been saved throughout history have been saved by the single sacrifice of Christ.

The 10 Commandments has held throughout all of history. Muder, lying, adultery, etc were sins right from the beginning, and continue to be sins today. Or do you think that Christ approved of lying, or adultery?

The ceremonial law of the old testament was done away with the coming of Christ, but the moral law stands still, ,and always will.

[bigross86]

I know that I'm the symbolic Jew standing alone aginst the hordes of Islam and Christianity on this board (just kidding guys, take it easy...) but I think I'm gonna sit on the sidelines and watch this one closely. Maybe later on I'll join in, but from prior experience even if both sides agree to disagree, trouble is still gonna happen. People are very serious about their religion and if someone knocks it they'll get hostile fast. I do find this topic very interesting however.

By the way, did you know that one of the main funders of the Amerian Revolution which was apparently headed by many firm Christian believers was a Jew? There's a pretty large square dedicated to him right outside the Kew Gardens Hills ("Jew Gardens Hills") Queens Public Library.

And here's just a little quote from George Washington:

"May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants, while everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid."

America's new President, George Washington

[Ziska]

Hmm. I've been banned from boads for making my religious views about modern-day Jews clear, so I have to tread carefully.

Ben are you an orthodox Jew? My understanding of judaism is kinda limited. I know a stack about the Old Testament, have a basic grasp of the role of the Talmud, but thats about it. I don't know the difference between reform and orthodox Jews, and I would appreciate it if you would enlighten me.

[bigross86]

Yes, I'm an Orthodox Jew. As far as I know, there are three sects of Judaism, Orthodox, Reform and Conservative, though Orthodox Jews believe that the other two don't count as real Judaism.

I don't know too much about the other two, but I think Reform Jews edited the book to keep what they want and added things, and Conservative Jews keep the book, but just choose what they want and what they don't want to do. They don't add on.

[Ziska]

When you say 'the book' exactly what are you reffering to?

[bigross86]

The Torah, or what you would call the Old Testament. It contains 613 commandments, 248 "Thou Shalt"s and 365 "Thou Shalt Not"s

[Ziska]

Ok. What do you think about people who do not keep those 613 laws? Ie, are they doomed to hell, or what?

[bigross86]

Well, so much for staying out of this...

I look at them fro an Orthodox point of view. I believe that they recieve credit for the Commandmants (Mitzvot, plural of Mitzvah) that they keep, and recieve punishment for Commandments they disobey or disregard. I also believe that the commandments that were added on are null, void, and are worthless, for the Torah says "Thou shalt neither increase nor decrease from the word that I have given you here today"

[Stinger]

No they're doomed to talk to me on IM and message boards right BR :D:dbanana

[Ziska]

Heh, I'd say I was sorry for dragging you into this, but I'm not :)

So do you wear a yarmulke (sp?)? And what do you think about all the alliances Israel has made with gentile nations like the US?

Way I see it, thats like the many alliances Israel had with Egypt etc.

[bigross86]

Yes, I wear a yarmulka, though in Hebrew they are known as Kipa (Single) or Kipot (Plural)

About the peace: I have several opinions: First of all, I try not to have an opinion of my own when it comes to politics. I'm not quite center, but I'm definetely not right-wing.

Second of all: The Torah says that when you come upon a country with which you are going to wage war, you must first offer tham peace. This applies in a Milchemet Reshut (Non-Obligatory War) and in a Milchemet Chova (Obligatory War, excluding the Destruction, Eradication and removal of the memory of Amalek from upon this earth)

Third: It is obvious that until the days of Mashiach ben David (Messiah son of David) there won't be WWJD, or World Wide Jewish Domination. However, in the meantime until the War of Gog and Magog (What the Christians call Armageddon), I'll settle for evarlasting peace. We are on the road to peace with the treaties between Egypt and Jordan, close diplomatic ties Morocco and Turkey, etc...