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Facebook employees stage a virtual walkout over Zuckerberg's inaction on Trump posts

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  • #76
    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    Is there some way to do multi-quote as easily as it was on the old forum structure?
    If there is i've not figured it out.

    So you quote. Copy what appears below somewhere. Then unquote. Then quote the next one and so one and finally post the compilation here.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      It means you have no freedom of speech in digital space.

      Given we are now in the digital age and so much of our speech is in that form these days do you not see the mismatch emerging ?
      The medium/setting may be different, but the dynamic is not. If anything, even without Twitter, it's even easier for a citizen to make their voices heard in the virtual world than the physical one. The physical world requires permits and agreements with venue owners, not to mention having to tailor your message to your audience's sensibilities if you want even a remote chance of being taken seriously. Like I said before, you could grab a shoeshiner box, go to a well-trafficked corner off 5th Ave, and do your best impression of a medieval town crier while accosting bystanders about the dangers of slipping on banana peels---all without any fear of arrest. But just because your speech is legally protected from prosecution, this does not mean you are entitled to any platform. Madison Square Garden is not obligated to give me stage time for my TED talk on the 105th leading cause of death among the elderly.

      In the virtual world you just need to go on Google or Tor to find a site/forum to register to, then you're all set. This is actually how I got started on WAB and many other platforms that I frequent. In fact, there are server hosts right now that continue to maintain sites like Stormfront which continue to attract like-minded people from all over the world, disproportionately amplifying their voice relative to their numbers.

      I would absolutely be ringing the alarm bells with you if my government began to target and destroy these sites based solely on their beliefs, or if my government suddenly started to crack down on VPNs like China. But this simply isn't the case presently.
      Last edited by Red Team; 18 Jan 21,, 16:23.
      "Draft beer, not people."

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
        They are being silenced
        Our media is not free. It’s not fair. It suppresses thought. It suppresses speech, and it’s become the enemy of the people. It’s become the enemy of the people. It’s the biggest problem we have in this country.

        The American people do not believe the corrupt fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation.

        But it used to be that they’d argue with me, I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight. I’d fight, they’d fight. Boop-boop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out.

        They had their point of view, I had my point of view. But you’d have an argument.

        Now what they do is they go silent. It’s called suppression. And that’s what happens in a communist country.

        That’s what they do. They suppress. You don’t fight with them anymore, unless it’s a bad. They have a little bad story about me, they’ll make it 10 times worse and it’s a major headline.

        But Hunter Biden, they don’t talk about him. What happened to Hunter? Where’s Hunter? Where is Hunter? They don’t talk about him.
        This is why its important to listen to what he says before listening to what others tell you he said

        Jan 6 transcript

        Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
        This also isn't where the ball stops. It's only a question of where this slippery slope actually bottoms out.
        I have this feeling a red line has been crossed and it remains to be seen how far we go before walking back.

        if its happening to the Repubs today it can happen to the Dems tomorrow.

        If it happens in your country it can happen in mine.

        Net result is reduced freedoms for all in digital space.

        If they can take your voice away, your life is next.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Jan 21,, 20:10.

        Comment


        • #79
          Another angle. Connecting speech with impeachment

          In Opposition to Impeachment | Tom McClintock | Jan 13 2021

          Benjamin Franklin warned that “Passion governs, and she never governs wisely.”

          In our passions this week we have set some dangerous new precedents that will haunt us for years to come.

          Yesterday, we redefined intemperate speech as a physical incapacity requiring removal from office. Today we define it as a high crime and misdemeanor.

          The moment any member of this body gives an impassioned speech, and the lunatic fringe of their movement takes license from it, be prepared to answer to this new precedent we establish today

          If we impeached every politician who gave a fiery speech to a crowd of partisans, this Capitol would be deserted. That’s what the President did. That’s all he did. He specifically told the crowd to protest “peacefully and patriotically.” The vast majority of them did.

          Comment


          • #80
            Wait a second! Twitter is Trump's C3? I did not believe the clusterfuck could fuck himself over even more ...
            to answer the good Colonel, here is the type of stuff the White House officially releases to the press pool.
            Attached Files
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
              Is there some way to do multi-quote as easily as it was on the old forum structure?
              I'll look into it with Rochen
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                The First Amendment protects people from being prosecuted by the government for what they say. It does not guarantee people to have an equal "speech" to each other, nor does it protect you from the consequences of breaking the terms and conditions of a site that you agree to follow before gaining access to services. You are no more entitled to say whatever you want on a major private platform than you are allowed to yell obscenities in a McDonalds.
                Problem is where breaking those T&C's occurred is never mentioned when some one is blocked. You just learn one day you have no access.

                Facebook censors libertarian Ron Paul amid Big Tech purge | NY Post | Jan 11 2021

                “With no explanation other than ‘repeatedly going against our community standards,’ @Facebook has blocked me from managing my page. Never have we received notice of violating community standards in the past and nowhere is the offending post identified,” Paul tweeted.

                His most recent post linked to an article he wrote denouncing “shocking and chilling” censorship on social media.
                His twitter account is still up though.

                I got my education on the concept of freedom of speech by interacting with Libertarians over a decade back. What they said made total sense and allowed me to understand better the restrictions in the free countries and how the US had the most liberal interpretation which includes protecting hate speech. This is being chipped away slowly & surely by interested parties.

                The ‘War On Terror’ Comes Home | Ron Paul | Jan 11 2021
                Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jan 21,, 01:41.

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                • #83
                  The mere existence of this Ron Paul article from the NY Post, a mainstream media source, is more than enough proof to indicate that his first amendment rights have not been trampled. The article itself is an example of him using his freedom of speech to give criticism without threat of retaliation by the US Government.

                  In the unlikely event that Facebook is ever nationalized and integrated as a department representing a branch of US Government, then I will be right there with you to sound the alarm.

                  Until then, as a prominent member on the board has said before, "Their house, their rules." This purportedly sacrosanct ideal seems to have been conveniently set aside by a surprising amount of "Libertarians".
                  Last edited by Red Team; 19 Jan 21,, 02:01.
                  "Draft beer, not people."

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                    The mere existence of this Ron Paul article from the NY Post, a mainstream media source, is more than enough proof to indicate that his first amendment rights have not been trampled. The article itself is an example of him using his freedom of speech to give criticism without threat of retaliation by the US Government.

                    In the unlikely event that Facebook is ever nationalized and integrated as a department representing a branch of US Government, then I will be right there with you to sound the alarm.
                    I'm wondering whether the actions now are a direct consequence of what happened in 2016 ?

                    Back then there were no shadow bans and moderation on these sites was normal. Normal enough that no one thought it risky to join the platform.

                    Then interested parties saw a chance to exploit the platform and flood facebook with fake articles with the intention to influence the election.

                    Facebook took the blame as they could not handle it and put in place increasingly restrictive policies to deal with it.

                    They over compensated as a result.


                    Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                    Until then, as a prominent member on the board has said before, "Their house, their rules." This purportedly sacrosanct ideal seems to have been conveniently set aside by a surprising amount of "Libertarians".
                    Because of the way Trump used the platform. In the early days there was this anxiety that he would be making policy via tweet.

                    Didn't Rex Tillerson learn he got fired on twitter. So the visibility of the platform increased a great extent. More was getting done.

                    They have removed his account that means there is no access to his earlier tweets except on sites that backed them up.

                    No record for people to go over in the future.

                    The date also is telling, they had to wait until Jan 6. They dared not do anything before that. Didn't matter how many of their rules he broke.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jan 21,, 16:31.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                      The mere existence of this Ron Paul article from the NY Post, a mainstream media source, is more than enough proof to indicate that his first amendment rights have not been trampled. The article itself is an example of him using his freedom of speech to give criticism without threat of retaliation by the US Government.

                      In the unlikely event that Facebook is ever nationalized and integrated as a department representing a branch of US Government, then I will be right there with you to sound the alarm.

                      Until then, as a prominent member on the board has said before, "Their house, their rules." This purportedly sacrosanct ideal seems to have been conveniently set aside by a surprising amount of "Libertarians".
                      Agreed. The law has been followed. Twitter were within their rights and probably made the right call.

                      Now the hard part comes, Should we change the regulations for the "next" time? or does this approach continue to serve us well....Do we need to view social media as some king of critical infrastructure or service within society...Do we need to find a completely new way to think about it that does not have any previous precedents...

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Is it happening ? I don't know

                        Is this how it happens ? Yes

                        And if this is how it happens these things happen quick.

                        These revolutions, when they begin, snap in a couple of months.

                        You go from "We had a chance" to "We don't have a chance" pretty quickly.

                        So if you were going to speak, you have to speak while you can.
                        Lenninism 4.0

                        Pompeo mentioned just one word. Woke. Entire books can be written on that subject.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Remarks by President Trump In Farewell Address to the Nation | WH | Jan 19 2021

                          The key to national greatness lies in sustaining and instilling our shared national identity.

                          That means focusing on what we have in common: the heritage that we all share.

                          At the center of this heritage is also a robust belief in free expression, free speech, and open debate.

                          Only if we forget who we are, and how we got here, could we ever allow political censorship and blacklisting to take place in America.

                          It’s not even thinkable. Shutting down free and open debate violates our core values and most enduring traditions.

                          In America, we don’t insist on absolute conformity or enforce rigid orthodoxies and punitive speech codes. We just don’t do that.

                          America is not a timid nation of tame souls who need to be sheltered and protected from those with whom we disagree.

                          That’s not who we are. It will never be who we are.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by tantalus View Post

                            Agreed. The law has been followed. Twitter were within their rights and probably made the right call.

                            Now the hard part comes, Should we change the regulations for the "next" time? or does this approach continue to serve us well....Do we need to view social media as some king of critical infrastructure or service within society...Do we need to find a completely new way to think about it that does not have any previous precedents...
                            I see the Trump method of using Twitter as a political tool as absolutely toxic and should be derided at every turn. However, since it is clear that Twitter and platforms like it are here to stay, the way society adapts to this should be handled not just through legislation but on multiple fronts.

                            In my view, education should do the heavy lifting in the long term. A modern society needs to establish for the next generation standards for rules, definitions, and norms for all types of virtual interactions.

                            This being one my favorite areas of study, I could spend hours musing on this topic, but I figure this may be left to it's own thread.
                            ​​​​
                            "Draft beer, not people."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Red Team View Post

                              I see the Trump method of using Twitter as a political tool as absolutely toxic and should be derided at every turn. However, since it is clear that Twitter and platforms like it are here to stay, the way society adapts to this should be handled not just through legislation but on multiple fronts.

                              In my view, education should do the heavy lifting in the long term. A modern society needs to establish for the next generation standards for rules, definitions, and norms for all types of virtual interactions.

                              This being one my favorite areas of study, I could spend hours musing on this topic, but I figure this may be left to it's own thread.
                              ​​​​
                              is there any merit to breaking up tech monopolies ?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by tantalus View Post

                                is there any merit to breaking up tech monopolies ?
                                Monopolies are inherently bad in our nation's history...especially vertical one's (think Standard Oil back in the 1890s-1900s).

                                One of the beliefs the reason for the changes to Facebook & Twitter is because Mark & Jack can read the tea leaves and saw a new administration coming...which would have forced changes on them.

                                Still a chance changes will come against their will.

                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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