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The Army Should Rid Itself Of Symbols Of Treason

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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Pretty sure that Florida's qualifies as well, the "X" of the Confederate Navy Flag that was bastardized with the Battle Flag
    Yup
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

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    • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
      Pretty sure that Florida's qualifies as well, the "X" of the Confederate Navy Flag that was bastardized with the Battle Flag
      Or does it represent the Cross of Burgundy flag which was the first flag flown over St Augustine, The Burgundy Cross being a sawtooth version of the St Andrews cross.

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      • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
        Or does it represent the Cross of Burgundy flag which was the first flag flown over St Augustine, The Burgundy Cross being a sawtooth version of the St Andrews cross.
        Could be. But the timing of the changes in flags coincides with Jim Crow, like the raising of so many Confederate statues.
        So if I had to render my own opinion, I would go with the "Lost Cause" as at least the primary motivation, if not the sole motivation.


        The flag changes in Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida coincided with the passage of formal Jim Crow segregation laws throughout the South. Four years before Mississippi incorporated a Confederate battle flag into its state flag, its constitutional convention passed pioneering provisions to 'reform' politics by effectively disenfranchising most African Americans.

        — John M. Coski, The Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem (2005), pp. 80–81.


        Other historians disagree, giving the reason you stated.
        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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        • That's what we were taught in HS Fl History class back in the late 70s

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          • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
            That's what we were taught in HS Fl History class back in the late 70s
            Oh I'm sure you were.
            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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            • Knowing John Coski personally, I'll go with him....
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • So Gunny asked me who I would rename the forts for...and then brought up Sparky.

                So here is my considered list.

                Recommended changes to Army Installations named for Confederates

                1. FT Lee. I would go with either FT Ingalls (QM General of the Army of the Potomac and master of nearby City Point) or FT Miegs (QM General of the Union armies who brilliantly performed the role.) Another option is FT Gerow (Leonard Gerow, World War 2 corps commander and Petersburg native). Also FT George Watson, one of the only QM Medal of Honor awardees of WW 2.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_Ingalls
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_C._Meigs
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_T._Gerow
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...edal_of_Honor)
                If we waive the requirement of AR 1-22 of the person must be deceased for 20 years before naming I’d go with FT Dunwoody (Ann Dunwoody, QM Officer, 1st woman to be a full General in the Army) or FT Bingham (Gwen Bingham, retired 3 star QM offier who is deeply tied to FT Lee community).

                2. FT Benning. Multiple choices. FT George Marshall or FT Omar Bradley easily come to mind. Both Infantry leaders are tied deeply to the School of Infantry.
                Other options: FT Alwyn Cashe, FT Aubrey Newman or FT David Grange, all great Infantrymen. And Cashe deserves the Medal of Honor
                https://taskandpurpose.com/opinion/a...medal-of-honor
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_Newman
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_E._Grange_Jr.

                3. FT Bragg….Easy one. FT Matthew Ridgeway of FT Maxwell Taylor…two great Army paratroopers.
                Other Options: FT Gary Gordon or FT Randall Shughart
                https://special-ops.org/delta-force-...crew%20members

                4. FT Gordon. FT Nathaniel Greene. Great American Revolutionary War General who lead the brilliant campaign in the South in 1780-1781 which lead to Yorktown.

                5. FT AP Hill. FT George Thomas. Thomas, the Sledge of Nashville, the Rock of Chickamauga, Old Slow Trot, Pap Thomas, was Virginian who stayed loyal during the Civil War. He was never flashy but performed brilliantly everywhere in the war.
                https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...trot-148045684

                6. FT Pickett. Either FT Christian Fleetwood or FT Powhatan Beatty, both USCT Medal of Honor Awardees from the Battle of Chaffin’s Farm as part of the Richmond-Petersburg Campaign. Beatty was born in Richmond, VA.
                https://www.battlefields.org/learn/b...tian-fleetwood
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powhatan_Beaty

                7. FT Hood. Another Easy one…FT Roy Benavidez, a native Texan and Special Forces legend.
                http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detai...idez-roy-p.php

                8. FT Polk FT Daniel Morgan. Morgan was a great Revolutionary War general who settled in Winchester. Took part in French & Indian War. He lead the Corps of Riflemen in campaigns including the American Invasion of Canada, commanded the 11th Virginia, was a force at Saratoga, and won the brilliant victory at Cowpens, the most decisive battlefield victory of the War.
                https://www.battlefields.org/learn/r...attles/cowpens

                9. FT Rucker. FT Bruce Crandall or FT Ed “Too Tall” Freeman, two legendary Army aviators from Vietnam War.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_P._Crandall
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Freeman

                10. Camp Beauregard. Another easy one…FT J. Lawton Collins, a great WW 2 commander and Army Chief of Staff. Lightning Joe was born in New Orleans, entered West Point in 1913 as was a member of the famed Class of 1917. The Class of 15 (Ike, Bradley, Patton) was known as the Class The Stars Fell On…and were WW 1 field grades. The Class of 17 became known as the Class The Bullets Fell On as those folks ended up as company grade officers. And if we waive the 20 year dead….I’d go with Ft Russell Honore’, General Don’t Get Stuck On Stupid!
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Lawton_Collins
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

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                • I like it, but I'd say put FT Sherman to replace FT Benning...>:-)
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    So Gunny asked me who I would rename the forts for...and then brought up Sparky.
                    I don't know. The GS's suggestion is growing on me. At least Fort Sparks get you thinking about the future of Air Mech War ... and we Canadians could use a laugh.
                    Chimo

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                    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                      I don't know. The GS's suggestion is growing on me. At least Fort Sparks get you thinking about the future of Air Mech War ... and we Canadians could use a laugh.
                      Colonel, get out.

                      Originally posted by astralis View Post
                      I like it, but I'd say put FT Sherman to replace FT Benning...>:-)
                      Sherman was an Artilleryman....and there was a FT Sherman....it was in Panama.
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        Knowing John Coski personally, I'll go with him....
                        I'll go with that. Never thought about it. Just repeating what I remember from school.

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                        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                          Sherman was an Artilleryman....and there was a FT Sherman....it was in Panama.
                          All bases should be named after Artillerymen. (except Bragg it should become Sparks, even the Col agrees)

                          And every base should have a statue/shrine to St Barbara so lesser mortals may humble themselves and make offerings to the Gods of War.

                          Remember it took an Artilleryman to rain nuclear fire on our enemy.

                          Also note that our largest monument is dedicated to 3 surveyors (artillery MOS) with some other guy thrown in that rode a horse or something
                          Last edited by Gun Grape; 30 Jun 20,, 18:29.

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                          • Go play with your models, Gunny
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • So, AR, what is going on with the Robert E. Lee statue in Richmond? I gather it is still standing unlike others.

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                              • Some may or may not find this interesting about the former USCGC Taney.
                                https://www.pilotonline.com/nation-w...z3e-story.html

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