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  • #91
    Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    In a press conference a little while ago, Trump stated that all travel between Europe (excluding the UK) and the US will be suspended, including "trade and cargo", starting Friday at midnight.

    The rest of the NBA season is being suspended.
    This is being proactive. Great news. Not sure about the 'trade & cargo bit' though.

    Why leave out the UK, they're still letting people in from Italy.

    Not so good news from Seattle though. Looks like a cluster is forming

    To slow coronavirus spread in Seattle area, state bans gatherings of more than 250 people | LA Times | Mar 11 2020

    SEATTLE — Washington Gov. Jay Inslee imposed the most stringent measures in the country Wednesday to slow COVID-19, banning gatherings of more than 250 people in the Seattle area, further atomizing society in the hotbed of the U.S. epidemic.

    Inslee said that most schools in Washington would remain open for now, but administrators should make immediate contingency plans for potential closures. Soon after he spoke, however, administrators announced that all Seattle public schools would close on Thursday for a minimum of two weeks to disrupt infection.

    Inslee said that scientists project that about 25,000 people in Washington would be infected if officials don’t act, and cases could double each week. “So by mid-May, we could be looking at over 60,000 people infected,” he said.
    Those million and more test kits would be really good to have right now.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20,, 22:10.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

      Why leave out the UK, they're still letting people in from Italy.
      Here is your answer:

      https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...resorts-126808

      President Donald Trump’s new European travel restrictions have a convenient side effect: They exempt nations where three Trump-owned golf resorts are located.

      Trump is already under fire for visiting his properties in both countries as president, leading to U.S. taxpayer money being spent at his own firms. The president has been saddled with lawsuits and investigations throughout his term alleging that he’s violating the Constitution’s emoluments clause by accepting taxpayer money other than his salary.

      The U.S. government proclamation initiating the ban targets 26 European countries that comprise a visa-free travel zone known as the Schengen Area.

      The United Kingdom, which is home to Trump Turnberry and Trump International Golf Links, and Ireland, which is home to another Trump-branded hotel and golf course at Doonbeg, do not participate in the Schengen Area. Bulgaria, Croatia and Romania are also not part of the Schengen Area. All three of the resorts are struggling financially.

      Ireland’s prime minister, Leo Varadkar, is scheduled to meet Trump at the White House on Thursday in one of the few events related to St. Patrick’s Day that has not been canceled due to coronavirus concerns.

      The administration’s European travel proclamation notes that “the Schengen Area has exported 201 COVID-19 cases to 53 countries. Moreover, the free flow of people between the Schengen Area countries makes the task of managing the spread of the virus difficult.”

      Trump’s European travel ban comes with several other loopholes.

      There are now 460 confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.K., including Nadine Dorries, the British government’s own health minister in charge of patient safety. Wednesday saw the biggest rise in U.K. cases in a single day, and the country’s highest-level crisis committee — known as Cobra — will meet Thursday to consider additional moves to reduce the impact of the virus.

      Though they are subject to border checks on arrival, residents of the 26 Schengen Area countries are also free to live and work in the United Kingdom, meaning they could fly to the United States from a British airport as long as they hadn't spent time within the Schengen countries in the last 14 days.

      EU leaders condemned Trump's move on Thursday, and disputed the president's criticism of Europe's handling of the crisis.

      “The Coronavirus is a global crisis, not limited to any continent and it requires cooperation rather than unilateral action,” European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Charles Michel said in a joint statement.

      Comment


      • #93
        By the way do you happen to see his news conference with the Irish Prime Minister.

        If you want to see the "Art of Stupidity" and "I'm Great" in action this was a classic.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Trump didn't start this one.
          No one ever said he did. Why even bring a strawman like that up?

          I mean, sure, you could point to Trump's slash and burn of the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs (gotta pay for those massive billionaire corporate tax cuts somehow, right?

          Or you could take a look at Donald Trump "cutting funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel its efforts to help countries prevent infectious-disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries in 2018. Among the countries abandoned? China.”

          But no, Trump didn't personally develop and then personally spread the Coronavirus.

          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          He had this crap foisted on him from abroad like just every other leader.
          Y'know, gosh, it's almost like that's chiseled into the American President's job description, front and center: Must Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That You Didn't Start.

          There's no intelligent, rational defense of Donald Trump's idiocy in the best of times. Why in the blue hell are you trying to defend him now?
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
            Like I said don't underestimate a human. Severe watery diarrhea is not a symptom so why the rush for TP is beyond me. The closing down of a cities water department is not a symptom so why the rush for bottled water. Last, why bother with hand sanitizer when a plain old inexpensive bar of soap can do wonders.

            I use soap all day long. Now while seeing people in a nursing home last week I used the sanitizer on the wall every 10 minutes for 5 hours. Easier than taking the long walk to the men's restroom to use water and soap. My visit next Wednesday to a nursing home in San Francisco's Japan Town are has been canceled until further notice. They have locked down. I know this place always has seniors in their 90s whose health is tenuous.
            That bolded bit is what a doctor was emphasizing on local TV : )

            Don't feel anxious if there isn't any available.

            Not as good as hand sanitizer but soap will do the job.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20,, 22:40.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
              No one ever said he did. Why even bring a strawman like that up?

              Y'know, gosh, it's almost like that's chiseled into the American President's job description, front and center: Must Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That You Didn't Start.
              Because you say he should resign before this thing has even started.

              I hear this so many times from the opposition in my country i just blank it out.

              I mean, sure, you could point to Trump's slash and burn of the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs (gotta pay for those massive billionaire corporate tax cuts somehow, right?

              Or you could take a look at Donald Trump "cutting funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel its efforts to help countries prevent infectious-disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries in 2018. Among the countries abandoned? China.”
              This might be true but does it explain this so called 'glitch' i keep hearing about the delay of those test kits ?

              Any country that has not tested adequately has no idea what they're up against.


              There's no intelligent, rational defense of Donald Trump's idiocy in the best of times. Why in the blue hell are you trying to defend him now?
              because the opposition excels at attack jobs for no good reason. Keep listening to them often enough you start to believe it.

              He's in charge, may not be every one's first choice but i'd rather hear about he has done and evaluate on that basis.

              So far stopped flights to China on Feb 2. That is two weeks before India did. Does the UK still allow them i wonder.

              And now Europe.

              So he's working from the outside in.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20,, 22:59.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                I do not find an answer here. If the Brits do not prevent any one landing in their country they expect similar from others. That is so long as their handling of this affair remains satisfactory.

                The test will be if the UK is still acceptable a month later when there will be more cases found.

                There are now 460 confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.K., including Nadine Dorries, the British government’s own health minister in charge of patient safety. Wednesday saw the biggest rise in U.K. cases in a single day, and the country’s highest-level crisis committee — known as Cobra — will meet Thursday to consider additional moves to reduce the impact of the virus.
                So that is sad news. Just like Iran. We saw how Iran handled it. BY not taking it seriously in time and it freaks me out when i see the UK behaving the same way and hoping UK does not go the way of Iran.

                Though they are subject to border checks on arrival, residents of the 26 Schengen Area countries are also free to live and work in the United Kingdom, meaning they could fly to the United States from a British airport as long as they hadn't spent time within the Schengen countries in the last 14 days.
                Or Brits who were in Schengen areas. So that is the EU effectively isolated from the US.

                EU leaders condemned Trump's move on Thursday, and disputed the president's criticism of Europe's handling of the crisis.
                This is the problem with those bans but he's got to look out for his own. Which begs the question what the Brits are up to because they're allowing every one in.

                EU will not prevent travel between members. This is an article of religious faith in the EU. Only way is if individual countries lock their borders down.

                Remains to be seen how things develop in the states. Should clusters form would individual states block other states.
                Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20,, 23:28.

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                • #98
                  It might feel comfortable or reassuring in some way to have someone to blame at a time like this, and Trump has made more than his share of fuck-up's in his handling of this situation (primarily in communication) but the fact of the matter is that having someone else would have made little difference to the systemic vulnerabilities to pandemics that we have worldwide.

                  There have been people warning about this for years (especially right after the first SARS outbreak), way before Trump came into office. But nobody paid any attention to it because there were bigger things to worry about. Things are going to get worse. The world has pretty much run out of N95 masks and even healthcare workers might not have access to them soon even though all factories are running at 100%. If healthcare workers start falling sick (like they have in Italy) and start dying, we are all fucked. Every major country keeps a reserve of oil and ammo in case of war, but nobody keeps a large reserve of masks and other protective equipment. If we close schools like we are doing now, who is supposed to take care of the kids of healthcare workers while they are at work all day? What happens if people stop going to work and we have supply side shortages of critical medical equipment and drugs. The US and most other countries are dependent on China for drugs (or at least active pharmaceutical ingredients used to make them).

                  Nobody really has a plan for any of this. So blaming Trump might feel good but means little.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Because you say he should resign before this thing has even started.
                    Before it's even started? What in the fuck is WRONG with you? IT'S ALREADY STARTED. IT'S IN PROGRESS. IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    I hear this so many times from the opposition in my country i just blank it out.
                    Jamming your head into a hole in the ground doesn't change the fact that a world leader, by definition, Must Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That He Or She Didn't Start.

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    This might be true but does it explain this so called 'glitch' i keep hearing about the delay of those test kits ?

                    Any country that has not tested adequately has no idea what they're up against.
                    Oh no, it IS true. There is no "maybe".

                    And, do you really not know how to use Google? Jesus...
                    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-testing-kits-lack-key-ingredient-causing-confusion

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    because the opposition excels at attack jobs for no good reason. Keep listening to them often enough you start to believe it.
                    You seem to think that I listen to the opposition. You're wrong. I don't give a single SHIT about the opposition. I listen to what Donald Trump says and compare it what actual experts say. I listen to what Donald Trump says and compare to actual reality.

                    For example, Donald Trump says the US has "a tremendous testing set up where people coming in have to be tested". However in reality, he has no details on that ridiculous claim, and there has not been routine testing in the US.

                    See? Donald Trump versus Reality.

                    No "opposition" in sight.

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    He's in charge, may not be every one's first choice but i'd rather hear about he has done and evaluate on that basis.

                    So far stopped flights to China on Feb 2. That is two weeks before India did. Does the UK still allow them i wonder.

                    And now Europe.

                    So he's working from the outside in.
                    You're giving him credit for things that, A.) Are already on his ideological agenda: Keep the dirty foreigners out of the U.S., unless of course he's got lots of personal business in their country, and B.) things that anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together could figure out.
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                      I do not find an answer here. If the Brits do not prevent any one landing in their country they expect similar from others. That is so long as their handling of this affair remains satisfactory.
                      You're kidding me right? I assume you read the first paragraph which pertains to why he may have left the UK out even though the UK has a fair amount of cases. It is called three golf resorts.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                        You're kidding me right? I assume you read the first paragraph which pertains to why he may have left the UK out even though the UK has a fair amount of cases. It is called three golf resorts.
                        He doesn't actually read what people post. You can bold it. You can bold it and make it red. He still doesn't read it.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                          Before it's even started? What in the fuck is WRONG with you? IT'S ALREADY STARTED. IT'S IN PROGRESS. IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
                          By started i mean you govt taking proactive measures to deal with this crisis ? other than the two i mentioned they have not begun as they do not know the extent of the problem yet.

                          Jamming your head into a hole in the ground doesn't change the fact that a world leader, by definition, Must Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That He Or She Didn't Start.
                          Nah, i just file under 'shit the opposition says'


                          Oh no, it IS true. There is no "maybe".

                          And, do you really not know how to use Google? Jesus...
                          https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-testing-kits-lack-key-ingredient-causing-confusion
                          Did that cost cutting lead to the delay in testing ? No

                          Originally posted by LA Times
                          The chemicals needed, known as reagents, are used to extract genetic material from a nasal swab sample, among the first steps in the testing process. Demand for reagents has left a key supplier struggling to keep pace with orders from countries around the world.

                          The new information provides a clearer picture of why testing shortages continue, even as state and federal officials last week insisted there were sufficient kits. Newsom said that without the needed supplies, the “test kits are like printers, but without ink.”
                          See below as to what Trump's supporters are saying re:bolded bit

                          You seem to think that I listen to the opposition. You're wrong. I don't give a single SHIT about the opposition. I listen to what Donald Trump says and compare it what actual experts say. I listen to what Donald Trump says and compare to actual reality.

                          For example, Donald Trump says the US has "a tremendous testing set up where people coming in have to be tested". However in reality, he has no details on that ridiculous claim, and there has not been routine testing in the US.

                          See? Donald Trump versus Reality.

                          No "opposition" in sight.
                          I'll grant you that Trump saying testing is being done when a week after you could not get one yourself if you wanted it is plain wrong. He flat out lied. I know why he did it but it does not change the fact he lied.

                          Talk is cheap, the man does not shut up when he needs to. I also blank out the unnecessary stuff he says as cringe inducing as it can often be.

                          Telling myself POTUS makes policy.

                          I mean discuss what he DOES.

                          I pointed out two things he DID.

                          Too often i think he trolls media on purpose and sends the opposition off into some rat hole. Gets them off his back. I've seen similar tactics in my govt where i think specific people get tasked with 'running interference' just like with your football.

                          The sharp ones keep their eye on what he does and then take him to task on that.

                          You're giving him credit for things that, A.) Are already on his ideological agenda: Keep the dirty foreigners out of the U.S., unless of course he's got lots of personal business in their country, and B.) things that anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together could figure out.
                          Well, i was listening to a discussion on whether this crisis might expose the weakness of not relying on global institutions. Maybe reverse the moves away from multi-lateralism. Trump is not the cause of this move from multi-lateralism. He certainly gets cited for it. But I've heard resistance to global institutions decades before Trump showed up. About the utility of the UN for example and by extension the WHO. There is a partisan American clique always bashing the UN. This so called globalist agenda that is undermining the US.

                          Countries cannot fight this virus on their own. It requires a co-operation between countries. Data sharing, research collaboration if a vaccine is to become feasible one day.

                          What i'm hearing instead is why did we outsource everything critical such as medicines to China. There would be no shortage of masks in the US had there been enough foresight to prevent factories that make them from closing down. WHO LET THAT HAPPEN.

                          The reason is obvious. Cost. If made in the US costs more then hospitals in the US are going to buy from China. Thereby endangering the national security of the country because health security is national security.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20,, 00:48.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            By started i mean you govt taking proactive measures to deal with this crisis ? other than the two i mentioned they have not begun as they do not know the extent of the problem yet.
                            Trump spent days and weeks blathering about conspiracies and lying through his teeth about this crisis.

                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Nah, i just file under 'shit the opposition says'
                            So, just to be clear, you don't believe that the leader of a major world power, most especially the United States, should not by definition, Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That He Or She Didn't Start.

                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Did that cost cutting lead to the delay in testing ? No
                            Is the testing the only thing that the cost cutting affected? NO.

                            Hey, remember what you wrote right here:

                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Countries cannot fight this virus on their own. It requires a co-operation between countries. Data sharing, research collaboration if a vaccine is to become feasible one day.
                            Take a wild guess what Trump's cost-cutting did? It undercut the ability of the US to cooperate with other countries. Get it now?

                            The rest of what you wrote is just the usual deflection, wishful thinking and blather, the same word salad that Trump spews, just without the usual grammatical nonsense.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                              You're kidding me right? I assume you read the first paragraph which pertains to why he may have left the UK out even though the UK has a fair amount of cases. It is called three golf resorts.
                              I don't take that para seriously. Why should you

                              The guy's got interests in India & Russia.

                              You mean to tell me he does not have any interests in the EU ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                                Trump spent days and weeks blathering about conspiracies and lying through his teeth about this crisis.
                                Hot air because he isn't up and going yet. Means not ready to do anything.

                                So, just to be clear, you don't believe that the leader of a major world power, most especially the United States, should not by definition, Be Prepared To Deal With Shit That He Or She Didn't Start.
                                You started off saying he will fumble a global crisis. I pointed out he didn't start it.

                                Is the testing the only thing that the cost cutting affected? NO.

                                Hey, remember what you wrote right here:
                                You pointed out he cut funding to pandemic preparation. If a supplier has a shortage of a key reagent his cost cutting had nothing to do with it.

                                Now once you get going with testing we can talk about whether the rate of testing could be higher or not due to lack of staff as a result of that cost cutting.

                                Though i suspect that will be silently fixed.


                                Take a wild guess what Trump's cost-cutting did? It undercut the ability of the US to cooperate with other countries. Get it now?
                                Whether this crisis will reverse that ? not from what i'm hearing

                                We will have to see.

                                The rest of what you wrote is just the usual deflection, wishful thinking and blather, the same word salad that Trump spews, just without the usual grammatical nonsense.
                                Its what his people are saying. Call it deflection if you want. I'd say they're offering a different narrative. They're saying previous govts weakened the ability of the US to deal with this crisis.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20,, 03:00.

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