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  • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    That's true of military officers inspiring their men but aren't politicians supposed to be representing the wishes of their constituents rather than telling them what they should be?
    Same kind of thing. Both have to present a vision that people will follow. It's kind of easier with the military - victory. For constiguents - number 1 thing is and always have been money. How to get it (jobs) and how to keep it (reduced government spending). Sometimes, you can present the second as a point in the future - fix the road now vs building a new road in the future ... or if you are building a new road, talk about new jobs.

    Chimo

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    • lack of inspiration is not really the fundamental problem with the Republic.

      the problem is that one of the two parties fundamentally believes the other is illegitimate; that compromise is treason; that there is no cost too high to achieve political victory.

      these beliefs pre-date Trump, 'tho Trump of course has made things far, far worse. after all, Trump made his entrance into GOP politics by -leaning into- birtherism-- which, aside from the casual racism, also implies that the entire federal government was in a conspiracy to support an illegitimate President.

      these days, some 70-80% of Republicans think there was massive voter fraud in the recent elections, which also implies both state and federal chicanery. things that should be nonpartisan, like basic public health measures, are seen as a form of government control.

      frankly I think these issues are beyond the abilities of any one decent GOP leader to resolve. McCain tried, for instance:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk

      and what did he get for his pains? these days, the GOP base thinks McCain is a ISIS supporter/terrorist sympathizer, and worse yet, a RINO traitor. this isn't an exaggeration -- this is the type of stuff that was published in the Washington Times, cheering on his then impending death. and Washington Times isn't even where the REAL crazytown right wing hangs out!

      Mitt Romney was a decent man, but without McCain's political courage; he called himself "severely conservative" to try to appease the crazies -- and what he did he get? the GOP base calls him a RINO and a traitor to the Party.

      this has been repeated over and over again with anybody that dares raises their hand against the insanity. Trump's political genius was making hay from it, versus trying to tamp it down.
      Last edited by astralis; 25 Nov 20,, 00:53.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

        To which again I say People are too wrapped up in their own selfish interests and desires.

        This is why I've never counted on politicians to do anything more than simply hold things together.

        That was always good enough...until Trump of course. Now something more is needed, but we won't find it.
        Precisely the reason why I changed my political stance from being a centre-left to being a centre-right. Leadership crisis. Now when we have a leader, not much seems to be moving, at least not to my satisfaction. The problem for leaders have always been to promise more, and deliver less.

        You can start your own party, address concerns, come up with a manifest, ask for donations. You can do that. I, on the other hand, am not leader material. I will be happy to work our details, if DE forms a party as a leader. We seriously need a pro-everything liberal party.
        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        • The Blinkin, Hunter Biden connection?
          https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sta...antony-blinken

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          • Originally posted by astralis View Post

            the problem is that one of the two parties fundamentally believes the other is illegitimate; that compromise is treason; that there is no cost too high to achieve political victory.
            With the arrival of Trump and his very tribal base we can now see that they and their party have no issues dumping democratic ideals, without blinking an eye, to achieve their end...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
              The Blinkin, Hunter Biden connection?
              https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sta...antony-blinken
              LMAO at you as it seems both Fox and you didn't take long to find a new birther issue as an opening attack on Biden's SofS.

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              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Probably milk his gullible followers out of still more of their money.
                I think exactly that. It seems (at least to me) that Trump is now transitioning to that new business venture, promoting his conspiracy theories and further fomenting divisions and political tribalism, toward eventually seeking many donations into his new "Save America" leadership PAC slushfund.

                Originally posted by CNN

                Trump is expected to join Giuliani at Pennsylvania GOP lawmakers' voter fraud event

                by Jeremy Diamond
                25 November 2020

                (Washington DC)President Donald Trump is expected to join his attorney Rudy Giuliani in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, on Wednesday, where Republican state lawmakers are holding a "hearing" on allegations of fraud in this month's election, two sources familiar with the plans told CNN.

                Trump expressed strong interest in joining Giuliani for the trip and directed aides to make plans for him to travel to Pennsylvania, multiple sources said. The trip, which would be his first outside of the Washington area since Election Day, was not listed on the public schedule released by the White House on Tuesday night, but is being handled internally as an unannounced movement.

                The event is the latest attempt by Trump and his allies to undermine confidence in the 2020 election and attack the legitimacy of Joe Biden's election as president.

                The Trump campaign and Pennsylvania Senate Republicans announced plans for the Gettysburg event, a meeting of the Pennsylvania Senate Majority Policy Committee, on Tuesday -- casting it as an effort to expose "irregularities" in the 2020 election. The meeting is being organized by the Pennsylvania state Senate GOP, which is holding it at a hotel -- not at the state Capitol.

                State and local election officials have said there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and both a federal court and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court have dismissed lawsuits seeking to prevent the state from certifying the results of the election. Pennsylvania officially certified the results on Tuesday, sealing Biden's win in the key battleground state.

                Trump and Giuliani have made baseless allegations of fraud in the election and delved into conspiracy theories alleging a plot to rig the vote, all of which have been refuted by state and local election officials across the country as well as the top cybersecurity official at the Department of Homeland Security. Trump fired that official, Chris Krebs, after he co-signed a statement declaring the 2020 election "the most secure" in US history.

                Asked for comment about the President's plan to attend the event, White House deputy press secretary Judd Deere told CNN, "I'd refer you to tomorrow's public schedule. I have no additional updates at this time."

                It is the first of three similar events the Trump campaign has scheduled in coordination with Republican state lawmakers in Pennsylvania, Arizona and Michigan. There's no evidence that widespread voter fraud has taken place in any of those states despite frequent claims by Trump and his allies.

                It's not clear if Trump will speak at the hearing, which the his campaign said is also expected to include "testimony from witnesses who have filed affidavits attesting to 2020 election fraud."

                The location of Trump's visit is striking. Gettysburg is the site of the most famous battle of the Civil War, in which the Union turned back a Confederate invasion of the North. The battle culminated in a failed charge by troops under the command of Confederate Gen. George Pickett that was repelled by US forces.

                Coming just two days after the General Services Administration allowed the presidential transition to proceed, Trump's visit signals once again that he does not intend to abandon his allegations about the election or concede the race to Biden.

                One source cautioned that the plans for the trip could change because the White House is handling the trip as an unplanned "off the record" movement.

                Trump is also considering attending a similar event in Michigan next week. The Michigan State Board of Canvassers certified Biden's victory in that state on Monday, after Trump's legal efforts and a pressure campaign on state and local officials collapsed.

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                • Once that money is in his PAC, which says only 25% is to be used for contesting the election, the rest is there for him to use personally later on. Gotta admit if there were one person in this world to conduct a class on being a grifter it would be Trump. He does have a knack for living off other people's money and he will do it off this PACs money.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CNN

                    Georgia secretary of state says Trump threw him under bus despite his support

                    by Chandelis Duster
                    25 November 2020

                    (Atlanta)Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger on Wednesday lambasted President Donald Trump, saying that the commander in chief threw him under the bus although he voted for him.

                    "By all accounts, Georgia had a wildly successful and smooth election. We finally defeated voting lines and put behind us Fulton County's now notorious reputation for disastrous elections," Raffensperger wrote in a USA Today op-ed. "This should be something for Georgians to celebrate, whether their favored presidential candidate won or lost. For those wondering, mine lost -- my family voted for him, donated to him and are now being thrown under the bus by him."

                    The Republican, who has maintained there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the state's election, was attacked by Trump and GOP allies in the days leading up to Georgia's certification of election results last week. Georgia Republican Sens. Kelly Loeffler and David Purdue called for him to resign, and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp pressured him to investigate baseless charges of election fraud.

                    President-elect Joe Biden was certified the winner in the Peach State, as Trump, who filed a lawsuit to block the certification, has continued his refusal to concede the election.

                    Raffensperger pointed out the Trump campaign's refusal to accept the election defeat and wrote they were following "a playbook written by a failed gubernatorial candidate two years before," taking a swipe at Democrat Stacey Abrams, who lost the gubernatorial race to Kemp in 2018. He also went after Georgia Rep. Doug Collins, a Republican who led the recount effort for the Trump campaign in the state, calling him "a failed senate candidate with nothing to do who tried to undermine the integrity of Georgia's elections."

                    "Even as Georgia embarked on its first statewide audit, a process that was only possible because of the state's new printed paper-ballot system, those who requested the full hand recount triggered by the audit of such a close race lined up to undermine its credibility," he wrote. "Those who had so long been beneficiaries of the electoral process sought to tear it apart at its very foundations. But still, integrity matters."

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                    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                      Once that money is in his PAC, which says only 25% is to be used for contesting the election, the rest is there for him to use personally later on. Gotta admit if there were one person in this world to conduct a class on being a grifter it would be Trump. He does have a knack for living off other people's money and he will do it off this PACs money.
                      While Donald J Trump has exhibited gross ignorance on far too many topics, I suspect that he and maybe his buddy Rudy will soon be experts on the subject(s) of exploiting the slushfund nature of a "leadership PAC". Though I also suspect that Rudy might soon be fired and kicked to the curb.
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                      • Raffensperger is an idiot. Trump's entire term is replete with instances of him throwing his own people, who worked for him, under the bus when it suited him. Expecting him not to throw you under the bus just because you voted for him is stupid.

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                        • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                          Raffensperger is an idiot. Trump's entire term is replete with instances of him throwing his own people, who worked for him, under the bus when it suited him. Expecting him not to throw you under the bus just because you voted for him is stupid.
                          Let's face it, that includes every last Trump voter.

                          He treats his base with contempt and disgust and wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. He'd throw every last one of the under the bus if it suited him, without blinking once.

                          And they still worship the man.
                          “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                          ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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                          • Trump pardons former national security adviser Flynn
                            Michael Flynn pleaded guilty in 2017 to lying to FBI agents investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

                            Outgoing President Donald Trump pardoned his former national security adviser Michael Flynn on Wednesday for lying to FBI agents investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

                            “It is my Great Honor to announce that General Michael T. Flynn has been granted a Full Pardon,” the president tweeted. “Congratulations to @GenFlynn and his wonderful family, I know you will now have a truly fantastic Thanksgiving!”

                            Trump's move is an extraordinary intervention on behalf of an ally who pleaded guilty in 2017 and has spent the last two years fighting to overturn his original plea.
                            Before reversing course, Flynn initially cooperated with special counsel Robert Mueller for nearly two years, including by providing evidence of potential obstruction of justice by the president.

                            Trump had long been expected to pardon Flynn, pummeling prosecutors and the FBI for their handling of the case, part of a concerted attack on the investigations against him. Trump has falsely accused the FBI and Justice Department of mounting a “coup” against him in the years after his election.
                            ___________

                            So, with regards to this little affair, Flynn now admits his guilt...and kisses his Fifth Amendment rights goodbye.

                            Should've just commuted his sentence like he did with Roger Stone.
                            “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                            ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                              Let's face it, that includes every last Trump voter.

                              He treats his base with contempt and disgust and wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. He'd throw every last one of the under the bus if it suited him, without blinking once.

                              And they still worship the man.
                              That something I still struggle to understand with Trump. He routinely exhibits behavior most people would never tolerate in their personal life. From the bullying and treating people like shit. Showing no loyalty to anyone and throwing them under the bus once they have outlived their usefulness. The constant lying; his immoral behavior and affairs and his comments about women. This is not someone one would tolerate as a friend, a co-worker, a boss or even a business associate.

                              Yet as a leader he is considered a savior by perhaps 30-40% of the country.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by InExile View Post

                                That something I still struggle to understand with Trump. He routinely exhibits behavior most people would never tolerate in their personal life. From the bullying and treating people like shit. Showing no loyalty to anyone and throwing them under the bus once they have outlived their usefulness. The constant lying; his immoral behavior and affairs and his comments about women. This is not someone one would tolerate as a friend, a co-worker, a boss or even a business associate.

                                Yet as a leader he is considered a savior by perhaps 30-40% of the country.
                                Good post. Exactly my thinking.

                                Oops, forgot to add "as an outsider".
                                Last edited by Oracle; 26 Nov 20,, 17:15.
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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